55 ms·

Apple Is Listening

281 points by dankohn1 7y ago

udev 7y ago
Apple is listening to the shareholders.
- arcticbull 7y ago
  Hey, listening is listening. I don't care who's giving them the good stuff, it's working.
- scarface74 7y ago
  I doubt that the shareholders care about the new Mac Pro. It won't move the needle as far as revenue and profit. I also doubt that they care about improvements to SiriKit, the Audio APIs, and SwiftUI....
kjhughes 7y ago
I'll believe it when they produce a MacBook Pro that developers love again or a Mac Pro that (not yet independently wealthy) developers can afford again.
- marricks 7y ago
  It doesn’t get me HN points to say, but I’m a developer who loves my MBP.
  - kjhughes 7y ago
    I love my late 2013 MacBook Pro too, but I've been longing to replace it for years now, only to be disappointed time and again with each new MBP release. I'm still waiting and wishing for a model worth buying.
  - OBLIQUE_PILLAR 7y ago
    are you a fan of the butterfly keyboard ?
    - simongr3dal 7y ago
      I’ve had the 2011 model 15” MBP and currently own a 2016 model 13” MBP and I love the butterfly keyboard. It is soul crushingly inconvenient and annoying when the keyboard breaks and you have to have it replaced. I’ve had mine replaced twice so far both times under warranty. Because Apple provides the extended 4-year warranty for free on the keyboard it is no longer a financial risk to own the computer, only an inconvenience if it breaks again. On the plus-side, because the whole computer is glued together I got a fresh new battery installed every time they replaced the keyboard.
      - dwaite 7y ago
        They have improved the repairability of the keyboard itself over time, and have recently started doing in-house repairs/replacements of the keyboards at Apple Stores to cut down wait times.
    - Phlarp 7y ago
      I have a 2017 15" and my girlfriend has a 2016 13", we both do technical work with these machines as our primary work devices. Neither of us have any issues with the keyboard other than the clearly above average failure rates and the hassle of getting it repaired. My 15" has not exhibited any issues at all, the slightly older 13" has started to develop some stickiness with the arrow keys. Obviously there are issues with this keyboard and I eagerly await a redesign on it (as well as haptic feedback on the touchbar and making the touchbar option across all models). On the whole I'm quite happy with the extended warranty as it essentially amounts to free AppleCare+, and given their insistence on making the overall device unserviceable it also amounts to a deductible free midlife battery replacement. It's an elegant solution to the whole fiasco in my mind-- the cost of servicing all these keyboards has to be painful beyond normal for them given that ridiculous design, magnified further by the fact that end users should have no problems encouraging the keyboard to fail if/when they want a scratch free case or 0 cycle battery. To say nothing of how it undermines the value of AppleCare as a service, both because you can get nearly the same thing for free, and the existence of the keyboard program is straining their staff resources on repairs, which are otherwise almost exclusively devoted to AppleCare customers.
  - stephenr 7y ago
    I’m pretty happy with mine too, but mine isn’t used daily, just when the Mini has an issue or I go out of the (home) office and need to work.
  - fastball 7y ago
    You love it more than the 2015 MBP?
  - kylehotchkiss 7y ago
    Me too. I have a 2017 13in and a 2018 15in. My wife has a 2018 13in as well. We’ve had some minor issues that AppleCare resolved but other than that I love how crazy fast the SSD are and how cool and quiet they generally will run.
- scarface74 7y ago
  As far as a desktop Mac, a suitably configured iMac is more than powerful enough for development. A $2100 5K iMac - 6 Core I5 3Ghz (turbo boost to 4Ghz), 256GB SSD, 16GB of RAM. The RAM is user upgradable and an external SSD drive would be as fast as any normal internal SSD drive. As far as a laptop? I'm not spending my own money on a development class laptop. I hate developing with just a laptop. I have a dual external monitor setup at home and at work. My next personal computer will definitely be a desktop. You still get more power and more thermal headroom on desktops than more expensive laptops.
  - kjhughes 7y ago
    A "$2100 5K iMac - 6 Core I5 3Ghz" is not a substantial improvement over my late 2013 MacBook Pro (2.6 GHz, 4 core i7), which can both travel to client sites and directly drive 2 x 3840 x 2160 pixels on my desktop displays. No new MBP's have been worth buying. The new Mac Pro is nice but crazy expensive in a configuration I'd expected to be buying in 2019.
    - scarface74 7y ago
      No normal non pro computer is a substantial improvement since 2013. Computers have been "good enough" for awhile.
      - kjhughes 7y ago
        I'm neither interested in nor discussing here "normal non pro computer[s]". It was you who suggested a "$2100 5K iMac - 6 Core I5 3Ghz" to me. I merely explained why it doesn't, IMO, demonstrate that Apple is Listening.
        scarface74 7y ago
        Because Intel hasn’t created a consumer processor that is significantly faster than what they did in 2013 that means Apple isn’t listening? What hardware (besides a reliable keyboard) could Apple ship in a laptop in 2019 that would make it a worthy upgrade?
- L_Rahman 7y ago
  Apple's desktop options are actually quite strong right now. If you just want a really powerful desktop computer for dev work - get a souped up Mac Mini If you want it with a nice screen - get an iMac Pro If you're a video professional - get a Mac Pro The Macbook Pro keyboard situation is a garbage fire, though I will say that I'm quite happy with my 2016 keyboard after it got replaced for free through the program.
  - vbezhenar 7y ago
    Mac Mini is not a really powerful desktop. It's has mediocre CPU with terrible cooling (not allowing it to reach even full potential), built-in GPU and non-standard soldered SSD. I want 16 core CPU (probably Threadripper, as Intel is unable to produce anything competitive recently) with Nvidia 2080 Ti or better GPU, and 32GB ECC memory for $2k.
    - _ph_ 7y ago
      And if Apple made it and put it into a nice case, I would happily pay $3k or even a slight bit more for it.
- jitl 7y ago
  I love my 2019 MBP - and I expect I’ll love it until the keyboard fails, and then I’ll hate it. Because it has a large, accurate trackpad with multitasking gestures, I’ve all but abandoned my combo of Kenesis Advantage and Logitech Pro MX - it feels more efficient to move my hand less.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- psnosignaluk 7y ago
  As I sit here looking at the stupid TouchBar, the hunk of aftermarket plastic that contains an HDMI port, Thunderbolt port and USB ports hanging off the side of my MacBook Pro so that I can connect my peripherals, the TouchPad I never use and the keyboard I hate, I can't help but wonder if I'm just an idiot for buying Mac after Mac after Mac. I've run Apple products since 2007 and this is the feeling I'm left with. When my iPhone 7 decided to stop working, I ended up getting a Pixel 3a because it was cheap and good enough for what I want to do with a phone. I'm looking at my laptop the same way. I can't shake the feeling that for my use, I'd be happier on a Thinkpad T480. If I can self-upgrade that second NVME to whatever I want, it'd be a ripping machine to run in i7-8550U 32GB RAM 1440p trim, and comes with a second 72Wh battery, for less than £1800.
  - heisenbit 7y ago
    I just replaced my 13' mid2012 MBP with a 12' 2019 MBP. Newer software, Spectre updates and driving my Thunderbolt monitor was getting too much for the 7 year old machine which overheated and slowed it down to a crawl whenever things moved fast on the screen. My old Thunderbolt monitor is now augmented with a Dell UHD monitor + CalDigit dock which cost together roughly the same. The new MBP is driving both with ease. My desk cabling is as clean as before with the added advantage that I can plug in the Windows laptop into the monitor when I'm occupationally forced to use is. I was worried a bit about the keyboard but the latest generation seems to have a little more travel and Apple is backing it for four years. I mostly use it with a full size keyboard so the lack of ESC key is nuisance I can live with. Price is an issue but considering that I upgrade only every 4-6 years and value the smooth operation of the setup I'm ok with it - even if should be 20% less imho. I worry however about accessibility of Macs for people who can't afford to spend so much. Last year Apple PC sales shrunk by 3.8% which is o.k. as the market shrunk by 4.3 but is abysmal considering how superior their product is.
  - dusty_mc_dusty 7y ago
    Been there and back again
  - auggierose 7y ago
    If you never use the TouchPad you are probably not the typical MacBook Pro user ...
wildchild 7y ago
They have been selling trash can for retarded amount of money, 6 years old hardware. Now they made this ridiculous display and another pro and selling it for retarded price again. What exactly they are listening too? And mac mini is a total garbage with soldered micro storage. 256 GB for $6K workstation? Is it a joke? And stop offering iMac scam, displays live longer than hardware, with iMac you will throw away display and hardware along few years after. Apple is legal scam, dumping extremely overpriced hardware which is barely capable to run their current OS. They dumped tons of mac mini models recently without a reason at all. Maybe they have listened and replaced idiotic keyboards on macbooks? Oh no, they seems didn't.
secstate 7y ago
I think I might just be done with Apple. That culture of saying nothing and the surprising customers with things is like betting in Vegas. And unfortunately for Apple, the house always wins. They can repair the damage of the Mac Pro debacle with a new Mac Pro, but they haven't owned the train wreck of a keyboard on the Macbook Pro. Sure, they might be ready to hit it big on a double down on black, but in the meantime, my Lenovo keyboard is a delight.
- fastball 7y ago
  What about the trackpad though? I just can't get over how inferior everyone else's trackpads are.
  - adrusi 7y ago
    Apple's trackpads are still in a class above the rest, but trackpads from other manufacturers have seen great improvements over the last 2–3 years. The choice between Thinkpads and Macbooks is one between best-in-class keyboard with a passable trackpad and passable keyboard with a best-in-class trackpad. To me, that's a tossup.
  - NeedMoreTea 7y ago
    If I had a Thinkpad I wouldn't care about the trackpad. The biggest annoyance of my 2015 Macbook pro is the lack of trackpoint.
    - dagw 7y ago
      Having recently gotten my first Thinkpad since IBM stopped making them, I was very disappointed that the trackpoint is nowhere near as good as I remember them being. Don't know if it me or the laptops that have changed though
  - musicale 7y ago
    The MacBook Pro trackpad is a disaster - the palm rejection simply doesn't work. Baffling, since palm rejection works fine on the iPad.
colmvp 7y ago
Back in 2012, I bought the original rMBP. It fit everything I needed: it was thinner than my previous laptop as it had no optical drive, it was lightweight, it had a gorgeous screen, good enough keyboard, and seemed like a reasonable price for a higher end laptop work computer. I've used it everyday since 2012, and aside from the battery which I eventually replaced, it's been functioning without a hitch. From the 90s to the late 2000s, I used a variety of PC laptops and this was the only laptop that survived a huge amount of abuse from travel and daily usage (obviously, YMMV). I'd love to upgrade to a new MBP, but I truly don't understand what they were thinking with this current iteration. The touchbar feels gimmicky and over the top. Call me old school, but give me physical buttons any day of the week and keep the keyboard simple. Most importantly, give me a keyboard that has more room to press so that random dust getting in there isn't going to screw shit up.
- fastball 7y ago
  I'm giving up my spec'd out Macbook Pro 2015 over my cold, dead body.
  - cs02rm0 7y ago
    My wife needed a MBP so I've bought a 2019 to replace my 2013 13" model. The i7 2.8GHz dual core is now an i5 2.4GHz quad core. The RAM is still 16GB. To keep the price roughly the same the 2019 is a fixed 512GB instead of an upgradeable 1TB. And of course, no escape or function keys but touch bar. And no SD card slot. And a keyboard replacement programme - I've replaced a few keys myself on the 2013 that wore out, I can't see me doing that one the 2019. The 2019 hasn't arrived yet. I'm genuinely not sure whether to give her the new one and keep the six year old one for myself. That it's even in question seems ridiculous.
    - thevagrant 7y ago
      My experience with a 2017 MBP has been good. If I were you, I'd give the 2019 model a try.
- ianai 7y ago
antidaily 7y ago
The iMac 5k and Pros dont get enough love. They look great, are blazingly fast, and the display is ridiculously good. But i suppose the Pro is post-2017.
TurbineSeaplane 7y ago
Sure - working great for somebody like Marco who’s already loaded.
- scarface74 7y ago
  You know that's an old popular meme in the Apple community... "That might work for Marco". Marco didn't come from money or have any connections. He found a job on Craigslist working for a random guy named David Karpe as his first employee. They started Tumblr and he lucked out when it got acquired by Yahoo and made a few million. But the acquisition happened after he started a blog that became popular, wrote Instapaper, and started a podcast that became popular. I'm sure Overcast was helped by his popularity but if it had sucked, no one would have downloaded it. Even for that he tried three different monetization strategies until he landed on one that worked -- writing his own non scummy ad platform. All of this with no outside funding. And he lucked up and made money by being an early investor in Gimlet Media but that was way later. But on a personal note. If I needed it, a $5,000 iMac Pro wouldn't break the bank and I'm just a regular old enterprise developer. That's less than two weeks billable work for a halfway competent cheap software contractor. Heck my college computer was $4000 in 1992. A Mac LCII with 10MB of RAM, a //e card, a 5-1/4 disk drive, a Personal Laserwriter printer and a copy of Soft AT to run Dos compilers and a 12" monitor. Over the next two years I upgraded it with a larger monitor, an external hard drive, and an accelerator card using money I got doing a contract for a college.
  - JohnBooty 7y ago
    I really feel like you're missing the point of "That might work for Marco, since he has a lot of money" comments. You've summed up, very neatly, why he's talented and worked hard and has earned his money. But nobody's claiming he didn't earn his bunches of money. What they're stating is a simple fact: six thousand dollar computers might make sense for somebody with a bunch of money. But not for people with more modest means.
    - scarface74 7y ago
      How many people with “modest means” need the Mac Pro? Like I said, my parents were the definition of middle class - a teacher and a factory worker - and I had a $4000 computer setup in 1992 going to college (see specs in another post). That would be $7300 inflation adjusted.
clay_the_ripper 7y ago
Once they replace this travesty of a generation of MBP, I’ll agree with this. I’ve been impressed recently with the improvements in software and hardware. I have a maxed out 2015 MBP and I won’t buy the most generation under any circumstances. I buy laptops with the expectation it will last at least 4 years, and I have no confidence that this generation will last that long. I have full confidence though that the rumored replacement will be amazing, much like the new Mac Pro adessed the past criticisms.
- tomduncalf 7y ago
  To be fair it should last for four years, as that’s how long the keyboard replacement program covers it for. I’m not aware of any other critical flaws, although repairiability of this generation is probably quite bad overall. Whether it will last much more than 4 years I’m not sure, I’m not that confident - could be worth mashing some biscuit into the keyboard just shy of the 4 year mark to get a replacement ;)
linguae 7y ago
I’m glad that Apple is finally updating their Macs again, but at the same time Apple has doubled-down on its refusal to sell user-serviceable, upgradeable, and expandable hardware at prices that are within reach for most customers. The laptops have soldered RAM and soldered storage. The Mac Mini and iMac Pro thankfully have DIMMs, but in order to keep the warranty, you have to visit an Apple-approved repair center to have a specialist perform the upgrade, which costs more than doing it yourself. After over two years of waiting, the Mac Pro announcement was a huge letdown since the cost of the only user-serviceable Mac has doubled from $2999 to $5999, alienating Mac Pro users who can afford a $2999 computer but not a $5999 one. It’s one thing for me to buy a “disposable computer” when it is priced very low. It’s another thing for me when you can’t upgrade or service computers with premium-priced parts in them. This is a trend I don’t support. Unfortunately the only way to protest Apple’s business decisions is to leave the Mac, which means giving up macOS, which I find a more productive environment for me than Windows or any of the Linux desktops like KDE and GNOME. I started using macOS back when Macs were user-serviceable, upgradeable, and reasonably affordable. I continue using the Mac for macOS, but I’m finding myself alienated by Apple's business decisions. I wish the situation for personal computer operating systems were better. I want PC hardware with an operating system that has the same power, attention to detail, usability, and reliability that macOS has. At this point I am willing to spend my spare time on such a project.
- the_pwner224 7y ago
  > in order to keep the warranty, you have to visit an Apple-approved repair center to have a specialist perform the upgrade, which costs more than doing it yourself At least in the US (and presumably in the EU which is much better about this sort of stuff) this is not legal. You can upgrade it on your own and Apple still has to honor the warranty. https://www.ftc.gov/news-events/press-releases/2018/04/ftc-staff-warns-companies-it-illegal-condition-warranty-coverage https://www.ftc.gov/news-events/press-releases/2018/04/ftc-s...
  - Maxious 7y ago
    In Australia too, Apple has gotten in trouble for their "error 53" technical measure to discourage third party repairs and not repairing devices that had that error https://www.accc.gov.au/media-release/accc-takes-action-against-apple-over-alleged-misleading-consumer-guarantee-representations https://www.accc.gov.au/media-release/accc-takes-action-agai... This follows an earlier infraction over refusing to repair faults after a year without AppleCare https://www.crn.com.au/news/apple-agrees-to-two-year-warranties-after-accc-wrist-slap-367969 https://www.crn.com.au/news/apple-agrees-to-two-year-warrant...
overgard 7y ago
Releasing a hilariously overpriced and ugly computer that can cost as much as a new car and might appeal to a niche of a niche, to me, doesn’t really demonstrate any change in direction. (I love how people keep saying “the most powerful Mac ever”. Ok, but the laptop I bought 7 months ago for 2k has about the same amount of power as the base 6k Mac and it’s not housed in a giant garish cheese grater) I say this as a person that bought exclusively macs from 2009 - 2015 but they don’t have a single computer I even remotely want at the moment.
- scarface74 7y ago
  It’s not for you. The market that it is for are chomping at the bit to buy one. But as far as it’s “garish appearance”, that’s exactly what Pro’s were asking for something that didn’t put form over function.
  - overgard 7y ago
    Well you’re right, it isn’t for me. Which is exactly my point. I am their target market (user of creative software that’s willing to pay a bit of a premium), who has been willing to buy their computers in the past, and none of what they sell holds any appeal. It’s either ridiculously priced (Mac Pro), shoddy (MacBook) or not very modifiable (iMac) “The market” that it’s for (“creatives”) is saying things like “why can’t I get an Nvidia card?” And “I can’t afford a twelve thousand dollar computer” (what this thing costs if you pair it with the monitor) I’ve worked in games and CAD so I’m no stranger to needing powerful computers, but those numbers are absurd and most of that software doesn’t need to run on Mac. I don’t care much about the OS I’m on and I’m perfectly fine with windows or Linux if I save 8 thousand dollars and can use a broader range of hardware. As far as I can tell the only people that NEED macOS are iOS developers. If I’m working on films or games or design almost all of that software runs on windows.
    - scarface74 7y ago
      You can get an equivalent Windows computer for $8000 less than a Mac Pro + Apple display? You know no one is forcing you to buy the Apple display right?
DDH-182 7y ago
No they aren't. If Apple were listening, we wouldn't be expected to shell out $6000 for a machine where we're going to have to disable half the cores (and lose 40-60% of the remaining performance) to achieve "it might work" security (until the next Intel vuln is found). If Apple were listening they wouldn't be selling a freaking monitor stand for $1000. If Apple were listening, they wouldn't be forced to abandon bash because they can't be bothered to actually comply with the GPL (v3). Nobody can justify Apple at this point and the sooner it dies, the better.
- scarface74 7y ago
  The people who care about “GPL3 compliance” (what are you referring to?) are such an insignificant minority it doesn’t matter. You probably aren’t expected to buy a Mac Pro. You aren’t the target audience. There are plenty of desktop Macs that would meet your needs. What exactly was Apple suppose to use if not Intel chips at the high end?
intellix 7y ago
Half of the keyboard started acting up on my 6 year old Early 2013 15" MBP yesterday. Was waiting for the rumoured 16" rework but had my hand forced to the 2019 15". The touch bar is already winding me up as I'm used to resting my fingers on the edge of the top of the keyboard. It's constantly like: Siri, mute, brightness! siri! siri! It looked cool on iMessage that I could scroll through smileys but that's about it. Just about ready to completely disable the thing. Not sure how they'll be able to backpedal on it cause replacing it would mean admitting it was a failure. Perhaps replacing all keys with mini screens to allow total customisation of what's displayed with the ability to still scroll on them?
- drags7er 7y ago
  You can remove Siri from the touchbar. I did because I kept activating it when authenticating with Touch ID.
pupdogg 7y ago
Apple's 2013 "trash can" design of MacPro actually helped HP Z8 series desktops finally get recognized for their power! No one realized that there existed a beast much more powerful than a MacPro.
natch 7y ago
I was ready to upgrade when the touchbar came out, but no, have been holding back for however many years that is. Still stuck on a 2013 MBP. Hoping Apple fixes the MBP soon. What's broken? We all know -- keyboards, needless and costly touchbar, and SSD prices out of step with market prices. Yes I know you can get it without the touchbar, but not with top of the line specs, which I usually go for.
jarjoura 7y ago
I think Apple released this Mac Pro & Display at the wrong event. From every indication, it was designed for Hollywood. Developers don't need expansion, but Audio and Video producers do! Announcing at an LA event for producers and artists would have cleared any confusion. It wasn't designed for AI or ML either, because Apple is having a war with NVidia now, probably over component pricing, but who knows. Developers didn't ask for this machine or a $6k reference monitor. They just wanted something they can swap out the video cards or memory or hard drives occasionally as time goes on. They wanted a nice display that gave them 200% scaling and proper color correction in a matching aluminum body. Whether I can afford this machine or not at home is beside the point. It's just that after the keynote high wore off, and we returned to reality, it's clear Apple revealed the machine at the wrong event.
- chipotle_coyote 7y ago
  I think they probably felt they had to reveal it at this event for PR reasons, if nothing else; you're right in that this is clearly a machine made for A/V editors, but I can't see Apple introducing the new Mac Pro at NAB. A new Final Cut Pro, sure, but not a new Mac Pro. I think they dropped the ball by not having two displays, though -- the $6K Pro Display XDR for the crowd who goes "OMG that's so cheap for a monitor like that," and a $1500 Pro Display (sans XDR) that's basically the 5K panel from the iMac Pro. I am hoping that either that's still coming, or at least there are people with some weight in the company looking at the reaction to the XDR display and its "optional" stand and saying, "Did we tell you so? Yes, yes, we did, Doug. We told you so."
  - clay_the_ripper 7y ago
    Yeah I’m hoping they will release that display as well. I have no need for the xdr display but would happily fork over 1500 to 2k for a 5k 27 or 30 inch apple display. I’m wondering though if they are just letting lg service that market because the margins aren’t good enough? I don’t know it just seems odd that they would anoint lg to sell those monitors and then make their own.
  - JumpCrisscross 7y ago
altitudinous 7y ago
Pro & screen is a great machine. I think that because people are talking about it it is already a success. They will sell a lot, because Ferrari sell a lot, Red cameras sell a lot. They won't sell one to me, because even though I am a successful indie dev I am clearly not the market they seek. The machines they make for me are - Mac mini, iMac Pro and hopefully the upcoming Macbook Pro, because my barely alive, coating missing from the screen, doesn't hold any charge late 2013 Macbook Pro is still far better than the current brand new one.
nkkollaw 7y ago
I'm not giving them a cent until they remove those awful keyboards from their laptops. I'm on a Mid-2015 MacBook Pro which works great. Waiting.
belazeebub 7y ago
To give people a bit of perspective, the Macintosh IIfx was released in 1990 for US$8,969 which in inflation-adjusted dollars is ~$17,500 today. The PowerMacintosh 8100 released in 1994 for ~$4,250 which in today's prices is ~$7,300. The original 128kb Macintosh would be ~$6,100 in today's dollars. Those are all the bottom-end models. By contrast, a Chevy S-10 pickup truck was about $7,000 in 1990 (if my googling was accurate).
- iainmerrick 7y ago
  Yes, the 90s, when Apple were absolutely crushed in price/performance by PCs, and almost went bankrupt as a result.
- rq1 7y ago
  What are you trying to say? Is Apple still using the 90s’ factories and technology?
- sjwright 7y ago
  > Those are all the bottom-end models. I think you misspoke; the 128k, IIfx and 8100 were all unequivocally top-end models at the time of release.
  - belazeebub 7y ago
    Sorry, I meant that the pricing were for the entry-level configuration, not cherry-picked top configurations.
- greedo 7y ago
  Completely ignores the fact that technology has gotten drastically cheaper over time.
imagetic 7y ago
Apple took it to the max in terms of what IS possible with the Mac Pro. That's awesome. I don't see any of the post-houses I work with on a regular basis chomping a the bit for the power they're offering at $6k though. Most have already switched to PC/Windows after Final Cut X and the Mac Pro trashcan came up very very VERY short. This is definitely aimed at the highest budget niche audience. I'm sure a few very successful independent media people will buy them. I'll be jealous. I've owned 3 Mac Pros in my life, but this breaks any budget I could possibly lay out for anything I have ever worked on in my entire career.
steveharman 7y ago
Building a Hackintosh is no fun any more. It used to be a challenge but with the right hardware choices (plenty of lists) it's only really one extra step than installing macOS on genuine Apple hardware In the immortal word of Monty Python; there's no pleasing some people :-)
- inspector-g 7y ago
  Is this really true these days? I've heard this same statement made repeatedly over the last 4-5ish years, but each time I've tried to find one of these lists and experiment with a hackintosh the experience has been FAR from straightforward. It usually comes down to some NIC, Bluetooth, or audio device not working nearly as well as is claimed by whoever put together one of these lists, and then of course the updates to macOS will break something after having finally configured the machine correctly after several weekends of painful forum searching.
vinay_ys 7y ago
It is quite plain that Apple never really listens to the user feedback in a traditional way (and rightly so). Their business strategy for Mac hardware and MacOS (specifically, pricing strategy) may not align with what most early and advanced users of Mac want. But this post seems to be sugarcoating it.
jac_no_k 7y ago
Actually, I think Microsoft's effort is putting much needed pressure on Apple. My wife about a year ago got a Microsoft Surface 6, the tablet with keyboard + trackpad. It was about the same price as a MacBook and with a bundle, the Microsoft Office suite came included. It works well for my wife's use case and she's able to stay with her preferred interface. Hardware has been trouble free, Windows 10 with One Drive makes it straight forward to change machines, apps run well as a normal user account, and to my knowledge it hasn't been hit with any malware. The screen being capable of touch interface, can actually be cleaned! In comparison, my last of the "good" MBPr from 2015 has a partially fouled screen because the slightly greasy keys touched the screen. I am so annoyed when the screen is dark but I'm in a well lit room.
- SkyMarshal 7y ago
  My late 2013 MBPr battery finally died recently, and I took it to an Apple store for service. Two days and $199 later I have it back with a new battery (and keyboard, which is attached to the battery) and in like-new condition. It looks and feels like a brand new computer. Probably worth seeing if having Apple Service can do the same for yours, but via a screen replacement.
  - sensecall 7y ago
    I had a similar experience with my 2012 rMBP last year. Out of warranty: screen, logic board, keyboard and battery replaced. Charge? £0.
- nathana 7y ago
  I jumped on the Apple bandwagon circa 2007ish, when I bought a Mini. Prior to OS X (and its nix underpinnings) + x86, I paid them no mind, but both of those things put together plus their reputation for solid hardware engineering finally won me over. Shortly after that, I got myself an Air. Before that I bought and used ThinkPads exclusively. I also have the original 15" Retina MBP from 2012, which still runs great. But I have slowly found myself leaving the Apple ranks over the years, and the 2012 Retina was the last Mac I spent money on. I also ditched iOS (and iPhone along with it) for Android (long story) well before macOS began to take a back seat for me. In January, I requisitioned a Surface Book 2 from my employer, and it has been fantastic so far. Easily the best laptop keyboard I have ever* used. If you told 20-years-ago me that I would be buying PCs manufactured by Microsoft and praising them, I would have had you committed. But it has been fascinating watching a hungry Microsoft compete in this space...
cromwellian 7y ago
I'm wondering why you need so much power in 1 machine for DCC work. Wouldn't it be better to have a relatively cheap model, and when you need to Render, to farm it out to a cluster of computers? For example, they claim the beefiest model will be 4x the old Mac Pro. But at what cost? $10,000-15,000 for maxed out system? How many cheap PC renderfarm computers can I get for that? How many cloud rendering instances could I rent? To me, it's like they "listened" and built a Bugatti Veyron instead of a Ford F-350. The people wanting an upgradeable workstation are not looking for a max-out computer off the shelf. They simply want the capability to upgrade it over time or modify it according to their needs. In particular, for rendering 3d workloads, it seems renting cloud computers is far more scalable. If I am time limited, I can easily buy enough power to render 20x faster than this system in a crunch. This seems more like a vanity project.
- swerner 7y ago
  Remember the joke of “never underestimate the bandwidth of a 747 full of hard drives”? That’s the render farm. Throw a ton of work at it, and it’ll get done faster than a big single machine could. What would have taken a week now takes a day. The Mac Pro in our analogy is 5G wireless: not nearly as much bandwidth as the 747, but at much lower latency. Lots of interactive/real time applications are possible that in a farm would be bottlenecked by network bandwidth alone.
  - swerner 7y ago
    Besides, we’re already using render farms where each machine has 20+ cores and 256GB RAM. A future render farm might as well be built from machines with specs similar to the new Mac PRo.
    - cromwellian 7y ago
      As far as I can tell, this Mac Pro's specs are on par with 2017 PC workstations.
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
bitL 7y ago
Now, when can I get 8-core 15" MacBook Pro without touch bar or 13" MacBook Pro with 32GB RAM? I'd pay premium for non-touch bar option...
rotrux 7y ago
Gotta love posts with more comments than votes. Steve Jobbs was a visionary tyrant who miraculously knew all this shit. They better be listening.
- rotrux 7y ago
  I can't figure out how to delete this. Pretend I didn't say it.
gonvaled 7y ago
I would like to remind international users that making use of American technology makes you a pawn in the current trade war. The US is a counterparty risk.
- kyboren 7y ago
  Huawei is a nice example here: even Chinese SOEs are critically dependent upon US technology. It is just not possible to buy any modern workstation/desktop, laptop, or smartphone without exposure, as you put it, to "US counterparty risk". Buying an Apple workstation is not significantly riskier than, say, a Lenovo workstation. And by your logic, wouldn't buying a workstation from a Chinese manufacturer also make you a pawn in the current trade war, albeit a pawn for the other side?
rbanffy 7y ago
On the new MacPro, we have to consider the target audience. It's doubtful the machine is a good choice for anything other than an artist doing crazy sound/video stuff. It's simply too much compute power. Of course I'd love to have a 56-thread monster (I always wanted Intel to invest more seriously on Xeon Phi as a homogeneous CPU/GPU replacement because I got tired of the VAX+supercomputer arrangement from the 80's that survives today as the normal clever x86 driving stupid-but-can-lift-heavy-things GPU) but I simply can't justify one for me. When I actually need to do some heavy lifting, there is always Google or AWS to help me with it (and Azure can rent me some really big Cray iron if I really, really need that kind of power). I have a cousin who was into computational chemistry that has mastered programming the classic Cray boxes and even he would probably be very happy with ad-hoc swarms of cloud-based boxes these days. The main advantage of the Mac Mini is the size, but if you match specs with an iMac Pro or even an iMac, you'll kind of end up with the same price for a machine without a monitor. It's cute, but I wouldn't get one. And the actual desk footprint of an iMac is more or less the same as a Mini with a monitor. It'd be nice if Apple decided to sell the iMac LCD panels as standalone monitors (because I'd love to have a monitor with the same color responses as my iMac, just so that the background looks the same on all screens - or even the black background of the terminals were all the same shade of black, FFS). Maybe they will, but, again, considering all machines that can run macOS, all practical options in the low-to-mid-to-high-end (MacPros are waaay above that) have pretty nice free screens attached to the machine. One minor complaint: the stand... Asking $999 for a monitor stand is beyond ridiculous. If it costs that much to make, then just sell the ultra-HDR 8K wundermonitor for $999 more and put the stand in the box. It's not like it's not much cheaper than the reference monitors it goes against. I'd totally get one without a Mac if I had to edit 8K video for money (lots of it). The stand is 2019's version of the "I'm rich" iPhone app. All in all, we should think of the Pro as the SGI Tezro of our time - exotic, expensive, ugly (it really looks like a cheese grater) and probably more than we need.
lucasverra 7y ago
today's proof ==> https://twitter.com/_JulianoRossi/status/1137840401904209920?s=20 https://twitter.com/_JulianoRossi/status/1137840401904209920..., Craig is responding email :)
visionscaper 7y ago
The 2019 Mac Pro is what you get when you let "Pro's", the users of the intended product, influence the vision of the product. Something I don't think has Apple has done ever, and rightly so. Users aren't product designers, they should not be involved in the vision of the product; they must be involved in getting the details right for them. I would have liked to see a much more innovative product where not only the internals were replaceable and extendable, but that also allowed users to string multiple Mac Pro's together, making it's compute and memory almost infinitely expandable. Maybe even in some sort of lattice network form. In this way a single Mac Pro could be cheaper and appeal to a broader range of Pro users (e.g. 4000 USD with 2 high-end GPUs). If you'd really wanted computational power, like the hollywood studios need to have, you could string three or four Mac Pro's together. If you are a heavy machine learning Pro, maybe you would put 16 Mac Pro's in a lattice setup, who knows. I would have expected that the Mac Pro would have some sort of high-bandwidth interface, almost directly exposing the PCI bus, making it possible for software to see all resources (GPUs, CPUs, memory) of all connected Macs as a single machine. Apple, with their software and hardware design capabilities could have pulled that off. [edit] PS: The Mac mini is not a good replacement for the suggestion I made to string multiple Mac Pro's together, because it lacks to possibility to install one or more powerful GPUs.
- visionscaper 7y ago
  Why is my comment downvoted? If you have any beef with it, please reply.
coldtea 7y ago
Well, I'm not so sold on this. 1) Pro users wanted a replacement for the Mac Pro of yore. Instead they got something suitable only for high end pro studios, willing to pay $6k starting price for the new Pro (or are in need of a very-cheap-for-what-it-does (even-with-the-stand-included) but still very expensive reference quality monitor). Where's my $3K-$5K Mac Pro (basically a headless iMac Pro grade machine) for regular videographers, graphic designers, etc, that don't make more than $100K/year and don't work for Nike or Hollywood? We used to have several options from Apple back in the day, now it's either the iMac Pro or, I dunno, the mini. Still no extensibility. 2) Where's a redesigned keyboard as a first priority? Why do they wait for a "new redesign" of the whole laptop? Meanwhile forcing people to keep buying the same broken design, even for the 2019 model? Just release the same current design with a decent 2015 style keyboard and the minimal tweaks needed to make it fit. 3) Where's a pro apple monitor that people who don't need /can't afford a $6K reference beast can buy? Where's the iMac / iMac Pro monitor in standalone form?
- pier25 7y ago
  > now it's either the iMac Pro or, I dunno, the mini What about the 5K iMac? With an i9 it becomes a very powerful machine that describes your use case perfectly. It's not as repairable as a tower though, but neither are the iMac Pro or the Mini.
  - coldtea 7y ago
    It's not upgradable (nor is the mini and iMac Pro) and like the iMac comes with a screen that can't be used on its own (when the computer part is old in 5-6 years).
    - pier25 7y ago
      True, but you can upgrade the RAM, use eGPU via TB3, and add more storage via TB3/USB3. It's not like an iPad.
  - michelb 7y ago
    It’s also thermally challenged.
bartread 7y ago
The article mentions it in passing but they still need to fix the Macbook Pro: the keyboard sucks, it doesn't have enough ports of any kind (and I hate carrying dongles - they eventually always get lost), it's not upgradeable[1], the battery is too weak to sustain heavy workloads for long when running unplugged. They do at least seem to be introducing models with more horsepower. I'm still "surviving" on a late-2015 15" MBP, which is making me twitchy because I'm down to one machine after my late-2011 17" MBP - which I used as my studio machine (built-in Firewire FTW) - died last week due to the somewhat infamous discrete GPU overheating issue (and Apple will no longer repair it; possibly fair enough after 8 years trouble-free use). I've resorted to buying a heatgun and some thermal paste to try fixing it, and will probably source a spare machine from that era for scavenging parts in future. I'm also considering a used 27" iMac from a similar era for the studio, although it's not so convenient to tote around. Other options include buying a Windows laptop (probably Lenovo, which seem decent), although I hate Windows so would prefer to avoid it. Linux, although perfectly fine for a lot of what I do (and would I think be fine on many Lenovo models), will only run Ableton Live via Wine, which is not a prospect that fills me with joyful anticipation (ditto, Microsoft Office, I believe). [1] A lot of people love the 2015 models and, I agree, they're not bad, but the rot had already set it. For me, peak MBP occurred a few years earlier, back in 2011: HDD and memory are both upgradeable, battery is easily replaced, and in fact the modular design of the interior makes it fairly straightforward to pull out and replace or clean most internal components (motherboard, optical drive, fans, etc.). The GPU overheating design flaw is, however, a big fail, so these machines are still far from perfect.
mark_l_watson 7y ago
Nice rig! In a way I guess I am happy that they don’t have CUDA/deep learning support so I am not tempted to buy one. It pays for Apple to provide very fast dev machines to support iOS and macOS platforms, and my Dad has been waiting for a new release to support 3D animation and video production.
todd8 7y ago
I’m not sure Apple is listening. I’ve had four Mac Pros over the years, and I’ve been waiting for years to replace my current (6-core, 32GB/512GB) 2013 Mac Pro. I won’t be buying the new Mac Pro. I’ve ordered an upgraded new Mac Mini for MacOS work instead. I really like my low end Dell servers running Linux so I’ll probably look for a Dell workstation to get a system with Xeon cpu and ECC memory. Maybe I’ll build a Threadripper system.
throwawaymanbot 7y ago
CHRIST ON A Unicornnnnnn... I had just dealt with Alexa.....
ksec 7y ago
I see a lot of people complaining about Mac Pro not for them and iMac / Pro doesn't fit their needs / price point. Is there any reason why Apple isn't considering the option of using AMD?
- swhitt 7y ago
  The main rumor these days (well, it's been a rumor for quite a few years) is that they'll be dropping Intel and switching to house-designed ARM chips across the board.
  - ksec 7y ago
    Well that would be the case if they didn't introduce Mac Pro. And now it is obvious that Apple don't want to do that, at least there is no way Apple is going to design a 250W CPU just for the Mac Pro.
musicale 7y ago
> Apple has doubled-down on its refusal to sell user-serviceable, upgradeable, and expandable hardware at prices that are within reach for most customers Apple needs to bring back something like the Quadra 700, which was only $5700 in 1991. ;-) Though I suppose what you are asking for is actually the 1st gen Mac Pro, which was $2500 in 2006.
acroback 7y ago
Stockholm syndrome is strong with this one. On a serious note, problem seems to be extremely long product cycles for Apple Hardware products with "my way or highway attitude" from Apple. These 2 make for a disaster recipe. Putting form before function is a fallacy which is bound to boomerang sooner or later. E.g The monitor stand fiasco speaks volumes of either a disconnect or ridicule raised by wrong audience. The latest MacBook pro is a bad and good design both depending on audience. Last Mac Pro was laughably form before function for a fortune.

Apple Is Listening

281 points by dankohn1 7y ago

udev 7y ago

Apple is listening to the shareholders.

arcticbull 7y ago
Hey, listening is listening. I don't care who's giving them the good stuff, it's working.
scarface74 7y ago
I doubt that the shareholders care about the new Mac Pro. It won't move the needle as far as revenue and profit. I also doubt that they care about improvements to SiriKit, the Audio APIs, and SwiftUI....

kjhughes 7y ago

I'll believe it when they produce a MacBook Pro that developers love again or a Mac Pro that (not yet independently wealthy) developers can afford again.

marricks 7y ago
It doesn’t get me HN points to say, but I’m a developer who loves my MBP.
- kjhughes 7y ago
  I love my late 2013 MacBook Pro too, but I've been longing to replace it for years now, only to be disappointed time and again with each new MBP release. I'm still waiting and wishing for a model worth buying.
- OBLIQUE_PILLAR 7y ago
  are you a fan of the butterfly keyboard ?
  - simongr3dal 7y ago
    I’ve had the 2011 model 15” MBP and currently own a 2016 model 13” MBP and I love the butterfly keyboard. It is soul crushingly inconvenient and annoying when the keyboard breaks and you have to have it replaced. I’ve had mine replaced twice so far both times under warranty. Because Apple provides the extended 4-year warranty for free on the keyboard it is no longer a financial risk to own the computer, only an inconvenience if it breaks again. On the plus-side, because the whole computer is glued together I got a fresh new battery installed every time they replaced the keyboard.
    - dwaite 7y ago
      They have improved the repairability of the keyboard itself over time, and have recently started doing in-house repairs/replacements of the keyboards at Apple Stores to cut down wait times.
  - Phlarp 7y ago
    I have a 2017 15" and my girlfriend has a 2016 13", we both do technical work with these machines as our primary work devices. Neither of us have any issues with the keyboard other than the clearly above average failure rates and the hassle of getting it repaired. My 15" has not exhibited any issues at all, the slightly older 13" has started to develop some stickiness with the arrow keys. Obviously there are issues with this keyboard and I eagerly await a redesign on it (as well as haptic feedback on the touchbar and making the touchbar option across all models). On the whole I'm quite happy with the extended warranty as it essentially amounts to free AppleCare+, and given their insistence on making the overall device unserviceable it also amounts to a deductible free midlife battery replacement. It's an elegant solution to the whole fiasco in my mind-- the cost of servicing all these keyboards has to be painful beyond normal for them given that ridiculous design, magnified further by the fact that end users should have no problems encouraging the keyboard to fail if/when they want a scratch free case or 0 cycle battery. To say nothing of how it undermines the value of AppleCare as a service, both because you can get nearly the same thing for free, and the existence of the keyboard program is straining their staff resources on repairs, which are otherwise almost exclusively devoted to AppleCare customers.
- stephenr 7y ago
  I’m pretty happy with mine too, but mine isn’t used daily, just when the Mini has an issue or I go out of the (home) office and need to work.
- fastball 7y ago
  You love it more than the 2015 MBP?
- kylehotchkiss 7y ago
  Me too. I have a 2017 13in and a 2018 15in. My wife has a 2018 13in as well. We’ve had some minor issues that AppleCare resolved but other than that I love how crazy fast the SSD are and how cool and quiet they generally will run.
scarface74 7y ago
As far as a desktop Mac, a suitably configured iMac is more than powerful enough for development. A $2100 5K iMac - 6 Core I5 3Ghz (turbo boost to 4Ghz), 256GB SSD, 16GB of RAM. The RAM is user upgradable and an external SSD drive would be as fast as any normal internal SSD drive. As far as a laptop? I'm not spending my own money on a development class laptop. I hate developing with just a laptop. I have a dual external monitor setup at home and at work. My next personal computer will definitely be a desktop. You still get more power and more thermal headroom on desktops than more expensive laptops.
- kjhughes 7y ago
  A "$2100 5K iMac - 6 Core I5 3Ghz" is not a substantial improvement over my late 2013 MacBook Pro (2.6 GHz, 4 core i7), which can both travel to client sites and directly drive 2 x 3840 x 2160 pixels on my desktop displays. No new MBP's have been worth buying. The new Mac Pro is nice but crazy expensive in a configuration I'd expected to be buying in 2019.
  - scarface74 7y ago
    No normal non pro computer is a substantial improvement since 2013. Computers have been "good enough" for awhile.
    - kjhughes 7y ago
      I'm neither interested in nor discussing here "normal non pro computer[s]". It was you who suggested a "$2100 5K iMac - 6 Core I5 3Ghz" to me. I merely explained why it doesn't, IMO, demonstrate that Apple is Listening.
      - scarface74 7y ago
        Because Intel hasn’t created a consumer processor that is significantly faster than what they did in 2013 that means Apple isn’t listening? What hardware (besides a reliable keyboard) could Apple ship in a laptop in 2019 that would make it a worthy upgrade?
L_Rahman 7y ago
Apple's desktop options are actually quite strong right now. If you just want a really powerful desktop computer for dev work - get a souped up Mac Mini If you want it with a nice screen - get an iMac Pro If you're a video professional - get a Mac Pro The Macbook Pro keyboard situation is a garbage fire, though I will say that I'm quite happy with my 2016 keyboard after it got replaced for free through the program.
- vbezhenar 7y ago
  Mac Mini is not a really powerful desktop. It's has mediocre CPU with terrible cooling (not allowing it to reach even full potential), built-in GPU and non-standard soldered SSD. I want 16 core CPU (probably Threadripper, as Intel is unable to produce anything competitive recently) with Nvidia 2080 Ti or better GPU, and 32GB ECC memory for $2k.
  - _ph_ 7y ago
    And if Apple made it and put it into a nice case, I would happily pay $3k or even a slight bit more for it.
jitl 7y ago
I love my 2019 MBP - and I expect I’ll love it until the keyboard fails, and then I’ll hate it. Because it has a large, accurate trackpad with multitasking gestures, I’ve all but abandoned my combo of Kenesis Advantage and Logitech Pro MX - it feels more efficient to move my hand less.
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
psnosignaluk 7y ago
As I sit here looking at the stupid TouchBar, the hunk of aftermarket plastic that contains an HDMI port, Thunderbolt port and USB ports hanging off the side of my MacBook Pro so that I can connect my peripherals, the TouchPad I never use and the keyboard I hate, I can't help but wonder if I'm just an idiot for buying Mac after Mac after Mac. I've run Apple products since 2007 and this is the feeling I'm left with. When my iPhone 7 decided to stop working, I ended up getting a Pixel 3a because it was cheap and good enough for what I want to do with a phone. I'm looking at my laptop the same way. I can't shake the feeling that for my use, I'd be happier on a Thinkpad T480. If I can self-upgrade that second NVME to whatever I want, it'd be a ripping machine to run in i7-8550U 32GB RAM 1440p trim, and comes with a second 72Wh battery, for less than £1800.
- heisenbit 7y ago
  I just replaced my 13' mid2012 MBP with a 12' 2019 MBP. Newer software, Spectre updates and driving my Thunderbolt monitor was getting too much for the 7 year old machine which overheated and slowed it down to a crawl whenever things moved fast on the screen. My old Thunderbolt monitor is now augmented with a Dell UHD monitor + CalDigit dock which cost together roughly the same. The new MBP is driving both with ease. My desk cabling is as clean as before with the added advantage that I can plug in the Windows laptop into the monitor when I'm occupationally forced to use is. I was worried a bit about the keyboard but the latest generation seems to have a little more travel and Apple is backing it for four years. I mostly use it with a full size keyboard so the lack of ESC key is nuisance I can live with. Price is an issue but considering that I upgrade only every 4-6 years and value the smooth operation of the setup I'm ok with it - even if should be 20% less imho. I worry however about accessibility of Macs for people who can't afford to spend so much. Last year Apple PC sales shrunk by 3.8% which is o.k. as the market shrunk by 4.3 but is abysmal considering how superior their product is.
- dusty_mc_dusty 7y ago
  Been there and back again
- auggierose 7y ago
  If you never use the TouchPad you are probably not the typical MacBook Pro user ...

wildchild 7y ago

They have been selling trash can for retarded amount of money, 6 years old hardware. Now they made this ridiculous display and another pro and selling it for retarded price again. What exactly they are listening too? And mac mini is a total garbage with soldered micro storage. 256 GB for $6K workstation? Is it a joke? And stop offering iMac scam, displays live longer than hardware, with iMac you will throw away display and hardware along few years after. Apple is legal scam, dumping extremely overpriced hardware which is barely capable to run their current OS. They dumped tons of mac mini models recently without a reason at all. Maybe they have listened and replaced idiotic keyboards on macbooks? Oh no, they seems didn't.

secstate 7y ago

I think I might just be done with Apple. That culture of saying nothing and the surprising customers with things is like betting in Vegas. And unfortunately for Apple, the house always wins. They can repair the damage of the Mac Pro debacle with a new Mac Pro, but they haven't owned the train wreck of a keyboard on the Macbook Pro. Sure, they might be ready to hit it big on a double down on black, but in the meantime, my Lenovo keyboard is a delight.

fastball 7y ago
What about the trackpad though? I just can't get over how inferior everyone else's trackpads are.
- adrusi 7y ago
  Apple's trackpads are still in a class above the rest, but trackpads from other manufacturers have seen great improvements over the last 2–3 years. The choice between Thinkpads and Macbooks is one between best-in-class keyboard with a passable trackpad and passable keyboard with a best-in-class trackpad. To me, that's a tossup.
- NeedMoreTea 7y ago
  If I had a Thinkpad I wouldn't care about the trackpad. The biggest annoyance of my 2015 Macbook pro is the lack of trackpoint.
  - dagw 7y ago
    Having recently gotten my first Thinkpad since IBM stopped making them, I was very disappointed that the trackpoint is nowhere near as good as I remember them being. Don't know if it me or the laptops that have changed though
- musicale 7y ago
  The MacBook Pro trackpad is a disaster - the palm rejection simply doesn't work. Baffling, since palm rejection works fine on the iPad.

colmvp 7y ago

Back in 2012, I bought the original rMBP. It fit everything I needed: it was thinner than my previous laptop as it had no optical drive, it was lightweight, it had a gorgeous screen, good enough keyboard, and seemed like a reasonable price for a higher end laptop work computer. I've used it everyday since 2012, and aside from the battery which I eventually replaced, it's been functioning without a hitch. From the 90s to the late 2000s, I used a variety of PC laptops and this was the only laptop that survived a huge amount of abuse from travel and daily usage (obviously, YMMV). I'd love to upgrade to a new MBP, but I truly don't understand what they were thinking with this current iteration. The touchbar feels gimmicky and over the top. Call me old school, but give me physical buttons any day of the week and keep the keyboard simple. Most importantly, give me a keyboard that has more room to press so that random dust getting in there isn't going to screw shit up.

fastball 7y ago
I'm giving up my spec'd out Macbook Pro 2015 over my cold, dead body.
- cs02rm0 7y ago
  My wife needed a MBP so I've bought a 2019 to replace my 2013 13" model. The i7 2.8GHz dual core is now an i5 2.4GHz quad core. The RAM is still 16GB. To keep the price roughly the same the 2019 is a fixed 512GB instead of an upgradeable 1TB. And of course, no escape or function keys but touch bar. And no SD card slot. And a keyboard replacement programme - I've replaced a few keys myself on the 2013 that wore out, I can't see me doing that one the 2019. The 2019 hasn't arrived yet. I'm genuinely not sure whether to give her the new one and keep the six year old one for myself. That it's even in question seems ridiculous.
  - thevagrant 7y ago
    My experience with a 2017 MBP has been good. If I were you, I'd give the 2019 model a try.
ianai 7y ago

antidaily 7y ago

The iMac 5k and Pros dont get enough love. They look great, are blazingly fast, and the display is ridiculously good. But i suppose the Pro is post-2017.

TurbineSeaplane 7y ago

Sure - working great for somebody like Marco who’s already loaded.

scarface74 7y ago
You know that's an old popular meme in the Apple community... "That might work for Marco". Marco didn't come from money or have any connections. He found a job on Craigslist working for a random guy named David Karpe as his first employee. They started Tumblr and he lucked out when it got acquired by Yahoo and made a few million. But the acquisition happened after he started a blog that became popular, wrote Instapaper, and started a podcast that became popular. I'm sure Overcast was helped by his popularity but if it had sucked, no one would have downloaded it. Even for that he tried three different monetization strategies until he landed on one that worked -- writing his own non scummy ad platform. All of this with no outside funding. And he lucked up and made money by being an early investor in Gimlet Media but that was way later. But on a personal note. If I needed it, a $5,000 iMac Pro wouldn't break the bank and I'm just a regular old enterprise developer. That's less than two weeks billable work for a halfway competent cheap software contractor. Heck my college computer was $4000 in 1992. A Mac LCII with 10MB of RAM, a //e card, a 5-1/4 disk drive, a Personal Laserwriter printer and a copy of Soft AT to run Dos compilers and a 12" monitor. Over the next two years I upgraded it with a larger monitor, an external hard drive, and an accelerator card using money I got doing a contract for a college.
- JohnBooty 7y ago
  I really feel like you're missing the point of "That might work for Marco, since he has a lot of money" comments. You've summed up, very neatly, why he's talented and worked hard and has earned his money. But nobody's claiming he didn't earn his bunches of money. What they're stating is a simple fact: six thousand dollar computers might make sense for somebody with a bunch of money. But not for people with more modest means.
  - scarface74 7y ago
    How many people with “modest means” need the Mac Pro? Like I said, my parents were the definition of middle class - a teacher and a factory worker - and I had a $4000 computer setup in 1992 going to college (see specs in another post). That would be $7300 inflation adjusted.

clay_the_ripper 7y ago

Once they replace this travesty of a generation of MBP, I’ll agree with this. I’ve been impressed recently with the improvements in software and hardware. I have a maxed out 2015 MBP and I won’t buy the most generation under any circumstances. I buy laptops with the expectation it will last at least 4 years, and I have no confidence that this generation will last that long. I have full confidence though that the rumored replacement will be amazing, much like the new Mac Pro adessed the past criticisms.

tomduncalf 7y ago
To be fair it should last for four years, as that’s how long the keyboard replacement program covers it for. I’m not aware of any other critical flaws, although repairiability of this generation is probably quite bad overall. Whether it will last much more than 4 years I’m not sure, I’m not that confident - could be worth mashing some biscuit into the keyboard just shy of the 4 year mark to get a replacement ;)

linguae 7y ago

I’m glad that Apple is finally updating their Macs again, but at the same time Apple has doubled-down on its refusal to sell user-serviceable, upgradeable, and expandable hardware at prices that are within reach for most customers. The laptops have soldered RAM and soldered storage. The Mac Mini and iMac Pro thankfully have DIMMs, but in order to keep the warranty, you have to visit an Apple-approved repair center to have a specialist perform the upgrade, which costs more than doing it yourself. After over two years of waiting, the Mac Pro announcement was a huge letdown since the cost of the only user-serviceable Mac has doubled from $2999 to $5999, alienating Mac Pro users who can afford a $2999 computer but not a $5999 one. It’s one thing for me to buy a “disposable computer” when it is priced very low. It’s another thing for me when you can’t upgrade or service computers with premium-priced parts in them. This is a trend I don’t support. Unfortunately the only way to protest Apple’s business decisions is to leave the Mac, which means giving up macOS, which I find a more productive environment for me than Windows or any of the Linux desktops like KDE and GNOME. I started using macOS back when Macs were user-serviceable, upgradeable, and reasonably affordable. I continue using the Mac for macOS, but I’m finding myself alienated by Apple's business decisions. I wish the situation for personal computer operating systems were better. I want PC hardware with an operating system that has the same power, attention to detail, usability, and reliability that macOS has. At this point I am willing to spend my spare time on such a project.

the_pwner224 7y ago
> in order to keep the warranty, you have to visit an Apple-approved repair center to have a specialist perform the upgrade, which costs more than doing it yourself At least in the US (and presumably in the EU which is much better about this sort of stuff) this is not legal. You can upgrade it on your own and Apple still has to honor the warranty. https://www.ftc.gov/news-events/press-releases/2018/04/ftc-staff-warns-companies-it-illegal-condition-warranty-coverage https://www.ftc.gov/news-events/press-releases/2018/04/ftc-s...
- Maxious 7y ago
  In Australia too, Apple has gotten in trouble for their "error 53" technical measure to discourage third party repairs and not repairing devices that had that error https://www.accc.gov.au/media-release/accc-takes-action-against-apple-over-alleged-misleading-consumer-guarantee-representations https://www.accc.gov.au/media-release/accc-takes-action-agai... This follows an earlier infraction over refusing to repair faults after a year without AppleCare https://www.crn.com.au/news/apple-agrees-to-two-year-warranties-after-accc-wrist-slap-367969 https://www.crn.com.au/news/apple-agrees-to-two-year-warrant...

overgard 7y ago

Releasing a hilariously overpriced and ugly computer that can cost as much as a new car and might appeal to a niche of a niche, to me, doesn’t really demonstrate any change in direction. (I love how people keep saying “the most powerful Mac ever”. Ok, but the laptop I bought 7 months ago for 2k has about the same amount of power as the base 6k Mac and it’s not housed in a giant garish cheese grater) I say this as a person that bought exclusively macs from 2009 - 2015 but they don’t have a single computer I even remotely want at the moment.

scarface74 7y ago
It’s not for you. The market that it is for are chomping at the bit to buy one. But as far as it’s “garish appearance”, that’s exactly what Pro’s were asking for something that didn’t put form over function.
- overgard 7y ago
  Well you’re right, it isn’t for me. Which is exactly my point. I am their target market (user of creative software that’s willing to pay a bit of a premium), who has been willing to buy their computers in the past, and none of what they sell holds any appeal. It’s either ridiculously priced (Mac Pro), shoddy (MacBook) or not very modifiable (iMac) “The market” that it’s for (“creatives”) is saying things like “why can’t I get an Nvidia card?” And “I can’t afford a twelve thousand dollar computer” (what this thing costs if you pair it with the monitor) I’ve worked in games and CAD so I’m no stranger to needing powerful computers, but those numbers are absurd and most of that software doesn’t need to run on Mac. I don’t care much about the OS I’m on and I’m perfectly fine with windows or Linux if I save 8 thousand dollars and can use a broader range of hardware. As far as I can tell the only people that NEED macOS are iOS developers. If I’m working on films or games or design almost all of that software runs on windows.
  - scarface74 7y ago
    You can get an equivalent Windows computer for $8000 less than a Mac Pro + Apple display? You know no one is forcing you to buy the Apple display right?

DDH-182 7y ago

No they aren't. If Apple were listening, we wouldn't be expected to shell out $6000 for a machine where we're going to have to disable half the cores (and lose 40-60% of the remaining performance) to achieve "it might work" security (until the next Intel vuln is found). If Apple were listening they wouldn't be selling a freaking monitor stand for $1000. If Apple were listening, they wouldn't be forced to abandon bash because they can't be bothered to actually comply with the GPL (v3). Nobody can justify Apple at this point and the sooner it dies, the better.

scarface74 7y ago
The people who care about “GPL3 compliance” (what are you referring to?) are such an insignificant minority it doesn’t matter. You probably aren’t expected to buy a Mac Pro. You aren’t the target audience. There are plenty of desktop Macs that would meet your needs. What exactly was Apple suppose to use if not Intel chips at the high end?

intellix 7y ago

Half of the keyboard started acting up on my 6 year old Early 2013 15" MBP yesterday. Was waiting for the rumoured 16" rework but had my hand forced to the 2019 15". The touch bar is already winding me up as I'm used to resting my fingers on the edge of the top of the keyboard. It's constantly like: Siri, mute, brightness! siri! siri! It looked cool on iMessage that I could scroll through smileys but that's about it. Just about ready to completely disable the thing. Not sure how they'll be able to backpedal on it cause replacing it would mean admitting it was a failure. Perhaps replacing all keys with mini screens to allow total customisation of what's displayed with the ability to still scroll on them?

drags7er 7y ago
You can remove Siri from the touchbar. I did because I kept activating it when authenticating with Touch ID.

pupdogg 7y ago

Apple's 2013 "trash can" design of MacPro actually helped HP Z8 series desktops finally get recognized for their power! No one realized that there existed a beast much more powerful than a MacPro.

natch 7y ago

I was ready to upgrade when the touchbar came out, but no, have been holding back for however many years that is. Still stuck on a 2013 MBP. Hoping Apple fixes the MBP soon. What's broken? We all know -- keyboards, needless and costly touchbar, and SSD prices out of step with market prices. Yes I know you can get it without the touchbar, but not with top of the line specs, which I usually go for.

jarjoura 7y ago

I think Apple released this Mac Pro & Display at the wrong event. From every indication, it was designed for Hollywood. Developers don't need expansion, but Audio and Video producers do! Announcing at an LA event for producers and artists would have cleared any confusion. It wasn't designed for AI or ML either, because Apple is having a war with NVidia now, probably over component pricing, but who knows. Developers didn't ask for this machine or a $6k reference monitor. They just wanted something they can swap out the video cards or memory or hard drives occasionally as time goes on. They wanted a nice display that gave them 200% scaling and proper color correction in a matching aluminum body. Whether I can afford this machine or not at home is beside the point. It's just that after the keynote high wore off, and we returned to reality, it's clear Apple revealed the machine at the wrong event.

chipotle_coyote 7y ago
I think they probably felt they had to reveal it at this event for PR reasons, if nothing else; you're right in that this is clearly a machine made for A/V editors, but I can't see Apple introducing the new Mac Pro at NAB. A new Final Cut Pro, sure, but not a new Mac Pro. I think they dropped the ball by not having two displays, though -- the $6K Pro Display XDR for the crowd who goes "OMG that's so cheap for a monitor like that," and a $1500 Pro Display (sans XDR) that's basically the 5K panel from the iMac Pro. I am hoping that either that's still coming, or at least there are people with some weight in the company looking at the reaction to the XDR display and its "optional" stand and saying, "Did we tell you so? Yes, yes, we did, Doug. We told you so."
- clay_the_ripper 7y ago
  Yeah I’m hoping they will release that display as well. I have no need for the xdr display but would happily fork over 1500 to 2k for a 5k 27 or 30 inch apple display. I’m wondering though if they are just letting lg service that market because the margins aren’t good enough? I don’t know it just seems odd that they would anoint lg to sell those monitors and then make their own.
- JumpCrisscross 7y ago

altitudinous 7y ago

Pro & screen is a great machine. I think that because people are talking about it it is already a success. They will sell a lot, because Ferrari sell a lot, Red cameras sell a lot. They won't sell one to me, because even though I am a successful indie dev I am clearly not the market they seek. The machines they make for me are - Mac mini, iMac Pro and hopefully the upcoming Macbook Pro, because my barely alive, coating missing from the screen, doesn't hold any charge late 2013 Macbook Pro is still far better than the current brand new one.

nkkollaw 7y ago

I'm not giving them a cent until they remove those awful keyboards from their laptops. I'm on a Mid-2015 MacBook Pro which works great. Waiting.

belazeebub 7y ago

To give people a bit of perspective, the Macintosh IIfx was released in 1990 for US$8,969 which in inflation-adjusted dollars is ~$17,500 today. The PowerMacintosh 8100 released in 1994 for ~$4,250 which in today's prices is ~$7,300. The original 128kb Macintosh would be ~$6,100 in today's dollars. Those are all the bottom-end models. By contrast, a Chevy S-10 pickup truck was about $7,000 in 1990 (if my googling was accurate).

iainmerrick 7y ago
Yes, the 90s, when Apple were absolutely crushed in price/performance by PCs, and almost went bankrupt as a result.
rq1 7y ago
What are you trying to say? Is Apple still using the 90s’ factories and technology?
sjwright 7y ago
> Those are all the bottom-end models. I think you misspoke; the 128k, IIfx and 8100 were all unequivocally top-end models at the time of release.
- belazeebub 7y ago
  Sorry, I meant that the pricing were for the entry-level configuration, not cherry-picked top configurations.
greedo 7y ago
Completely ignores the fact that technology has gotten drastically cheaper over time.

imagetic 7y ago

Apple took it to the max in terms of what IS possible with the Mac Pro. That's awesome. I don't see any of the post-houses I work with on a regular basis chomping a the bit for the power they're offering at $6k though. Most have already switched to PC/Windows after Final Cut X and the Mac Pro trashcan came up very very VERY short. This is definitely aimed at the highest budget niche audience. I'm sure a few very successful independent media people will buy them. I'll be jealous. I've owned 3 Mac Pros in my life, but this breaks any budget I could possibly lay out for anything I have ever worked on in my entire career.

steveharman 7y ago

Building a Hackintosh is no fun any more. It used to be a challenge but with the right hardware choices (plenty of lists) it's only really one extra step than installing macOS on genuine Apple hardware In the immortal word of Monty Python; there's no pleasing some people :-)

inspector-g 7y ago
Is this really true these days? I've heard this same statement made repeatedly over the last 4-5ish years, but each time I've tried to find one of these lists and experiment with a hackintosh the experience has been FAR from straightforward. It usually comes down to some NIC, Bluetooth, or audio device not working nearly as well as is claimed by whoever put together one of these lists, and then of course the updates to macOS will break something after having finally configured the machine correctly after several weekends of painful forum searching.

vinay_ys 7y ago

It is quite plain that Apple never really listens to the user feedback in a traditional way (and rightly so). Their business strategy for Mac hardware and MacOS (specifically, pricing strategy) may not align with what most early and advanced users of Mac want. But this post seems to be sugarcoating it.

jac_no_k 7y ago

Actually, I think Microsoft's effort is putting much needed pressure on Apple. My wife about a year ago got a Microsoft Surface 6, the tablet with keyboard + trackpad. It was about the same price as a MacBook and with a bundle, the Microsoft Office suite came included. It works well for my wife's use case and she's able to stay with her preferred interface. Hardware has been trouble free, Windows 10 with One Drive makes it straight forward to change machines, apps run well as a normal user account, and to my knowledge it hasn't been hit with any malware. The screen being capable of touch interface, can actually be cleaned! In comparison, my last of the "good" MBPr from 2015 has a partially fouled screen because the slightly greasy keys touched the screen. I am so annoyed when the screen is dark but I'm in a well lit room.

SkyMarshal 7y ago
My late 2013 MBPr battery finally died recently, and I took it to an Apple store for service. Two days and $199 later I have it back with a new battery (and keyboard, which is attached to the battery) and in like-new condition. It looks and feels like a brand new computer. Probably worth seeing if having Apple Service can do the same for yours, but via a screen replacement.
- sensecall 7y ago
  I had a similar experience with my 2012 rMBP last year. Out of warranty: screen, logic board, keyboard and battery replaced. Charge? £0.
nathana 7y ago
I jumped on the Apple bandwagon circa 2007ish, when I bought a Mini. Prior to OS X (and its nix underpinnings) + x86, I paid them no mind, but both of those things put together plus their reputation for solid hardware engineering finally won me over. Shortly after that, I got myself an Air. Before that I bought and used ThinkPads exclusively. I also have the original 15" Retina MBP from 2012, which still runs great. But I have slowly found myself leaving the Apple ranks over the years, and the 2012 Retina was the last Mac I spent money on. I also ditched iOS (and iPhone along with it) for Android (long story) well before macOS began to take a back seat for me. In January, I requisitioned a Surface Book 2 from my employer, and it has been fantastic so far. Easily the best laptop keyboard I have ever* used. If you told 20-years-ago me that I would be buying PCs manufactured by Microsoft and praising them, I would have had you committed. But it has been fascinating watching a hungry Microsoft compete in this space...

cromwellian 7y ago

I'm wondering why you need so much power in 1 machine for DCC work. Wouldn't it be better to have a relatively cheap model, and when you need to Render, to farm it out to a cluster of computers? For example, they claim the beefiest model will be 4x the old Mac Pro. But at what cost? $10,000-15,000 for maxed out system? How many cheap PC renderfarm computers can I get for that? How many cloud rendering instances could I rent? To me, it's like they "listened" and built a Bugatti Veyron instead of a Ford F-350. The people wanting an upgradeable workstation are not looking for a max-out computer off the shelf. They simply want the capability to upgrade it over time or modify it according to their needs. In particular, for rendering 3d workloads, it seems renting cloud computers is far more scalable. If I am time limited, I can easily buy enough power to render 20x faster than this system in a crunch. This seems more like a vanity project.

swerner 7y ago
Remember the joke of “never underestimate the bandwidth of a 747 full of hard drives”? That’s the render farm. Throw a ton of work at it, and it’ll get done faster than a big single machine could. What would have taken a week now takes a day. The Mac Pro in our analogy is 5G wireless: not nearly as much bandwidth as the 747, but at much lower latency. Lots of interactive/real time applications are possible that in a farm would be bottlenecked by network bandwidth alone.
- swerner 7y ago
  Besides, we’re already using render farms where each machine has 20+ cores and 256GB RAM. A future render farm might as well be built from machines with specs similar to the new Mac PRo.
  - cromwellian 7y ago
    As far as I can tell, this Mac Pro's specs are on par with 2017 PC workstations.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]

bitL 7y ago

Now, when can I get 8-core 15" MacBook Pro without touch bar or 13" MacBook Pro with 32GB RAM? I'd pay premium for non-touch bar option...

rotrux 7y ago

Gotta love posts with more comments than votes. Steve Jobbs was a visionary tyrant who miraculously knew all this shit. They better be listening.

rotrux 7y ago
I can't figure out how to delete this. Pretend I didn't say it.

gonvaled 7y ago

I would like to remind international users that making use of American technology makes you a pawn in the current trade war. The US is a counterparty risk.

kyboren 7y ago
Huawei is a nice example here: even Chinese SOEs are critically dependent upon US technology. It is just not possible to buy any modern workstation/desktop, laptop, or smartphone without exposure, as you put it, to "US counterparty risk". Buying an Apple workstation is not significantly riskier than, say, a Lenovo workstation. And by your logic, wouldn't buying a workstation from a Chinese manufacturer also make you a pawn in the current trade war, albeit a pawn for the other side?

rbanffy 7y ago

On the new MacPro, we have to consider the target audience. It's doubtful the machine is a good choice for anything other than an artist doing crazy sound/video stuff. It's simply too much compute power. Of course I'd love to have a 56-thread monster (I always wanted Intel to invest more seriously on Xeon Phi as a homogeneous CPU/GPU replacement because I got tired of the VAX+supercomputer arrangement from the 80's that survives today as the normal clever x86 driving stupid-but-can-lift-heavy-things GPU) but I simply can't justify one for me. When I actually need to do some heavy lifting, there is always Google or AWS to help me with it (and Azure can rent me some really big Cray iron if I really, really need that kind of power). I have a cousin who was into computational chemistry that has mastered programming the classic Cray boxes and even he would probably be very happy with ad-hoc swarms of cloud-based boxes these days. The main advantage of the Mac Mini is the size, but if you match specs with an iMac Pro or even an iMac, you'll kind of end up with the same price for a machine without a monitor. It's cute, but I wouldn't get one. And the actual desk footprint of an iMac is more or less the same as a Mini with a monitor. It'd be nice if Apple decided to sell the iMac LCD panels as standalone monitors (because I'd love to have a monitor with the same color responses as my iMac, just so that the background looks the same on all screens - or even the black background of the terminals were all the same shade of black, FFS). Maybe they will, but, again, considering all machines that can run macOS, all practical options in the low-to-mid-to-high-end (MacPros are waaay above that) have pretty nice free screens attached to the machine. One minor complaint: the stand... Asking $999 for a monitor stand is beyond ridiculous. If it costs that much to make, then just sell the ultra-HDR 8K wundermonitor for $999 more and put the stand in the box. It's not like it's not much cheaper than the reference monitors it goes against. I'd totally get one without a Mac if I had to edit 8K video for money (lots of it). The stand is 2019's version of the "I'm rich" iPhone app. All in all, we should think of the Pro as the SGI Tezro of our time - exotic, expensive, ugly (it really looks like a cheese grater) and probably more than we need.

lucasverra 7y ago

today's proof ==> https://twitter.com/_JulianoRossi/status/1137840401904209920?s=20 https://twitter.com/_JulianoRossi/status/1137840401904209920..., Craig is responding email :)

visionscaper 7y ago

The 2019 Mac Pro is what you get when you let "Pro's", the users of the intended product, influence the vision of the product. Something I don't think has Apple has done ever, and rightly so. Users aren't product designers, they should not be involved in the vision of the product; they must be involved in getting the details right for them. I would have liked to see a much more innovative product where not only the internals were replaceable and extendable, but that also allowed users to string multiple Mac Pro's together, making it's compute and memory almost infinitely expandable. Maybe even in some sort of lattice network form. In this way a single Mac Pro could be cheaper and appeal to a broader range of Pro users (e.g. 4000 USD with 2 high-end GPUs). If you'd really wanted computational power, like the hollywood studios need to have, you could string three or four Mac Pro's together. If you are a heavy machine learning Pro, maybe you would put 16 Mac Pro's in a lattice setup, who knows. I would have expected that the Mac Pro would have some sort of high-bandwidth interface, almost directly exposing the PCI bus, making it possible for software to see all resources (GPUs, CPUs, memory) of all connected Macs as a single machine. Apple, with their software and hardware design capabilities could have pulled that off. [edit] PS: The Mac mini is not a good replacement for the suggestion I made to string multiple Mac Pro's together, because it lacks to possibility to install one or more powerful GPUs.

visionscaper 7y ago
Why is my comment downvoted? If you have any beef with it, please reply.

coldtea 7y ago

Well, I'm not so sold on this. 1) Pro users wanted a replacement for the Mac Pro of yore. Instead they got something suitable only for high end pro studios, willing to pay $6k starting price for the new Pro (or are in need of a very-cheap-for-what-it-does (even-with-the-stand-included) but still very expensive reference quality monitor). Where's my $3K-$5K Mac Pro (basically a headless iMac Pro grade machine) for regular videographers, graphic designers, etc, that don't make more than $100K/year and don't work for Nike or Hollywood? We used to have several options from Apple back in the day, now it's either the iMac Pro or, I dunno, the mini. Still no extensibility. 2) Where's a redesigned keyboard as a first priority? Why do they wait for a "new redesign" of the whole laptop? Meanwhile forcing people to keep buying the same broken design, even for the 2019 model? Just release the same current design with a decent 2015 style keyboard and the minimal tweaks needed to make it fit. 3) Where's a pro apple monitor that people who don't need /can't afford a $6K reference beast can buy? Where's the iMac / iMac Pro monitor in standalone form?

pier25 7y ago
> now it's either the iMac Pro or, I dunno, the mini What about the 5K iMac? With an i9 it becomes a very powerful machine that describes your use case perfectly. It's not as repairable as a tower though, but neither are the iMac Pro or the Mini.
- coldtea 7y ago
  It's not upgradable (nor is the mini and iMac Pro) and like the iMac comes with a screen that can't be used on its own (when the computer part is old in 5-6 years).
  - pier25 7y ago
    True, but you can upgrade the RAM, use eGPU via TB3, and add more storage via TB3/USB3. It's not like an iPad.
- michelb 7y ago
  It’s also thermally challenged.

bartread 7y ago

The article mentions it in passing but they still need to fix the Macbook Pro: the keyboard sucks, it doesn't have enough ports of any kind (and I hate carrying dongles - they eventually always get lost), it's not upgradeable[1], the battery is too weak to sustain heavy workloads for long when running unplugged. They do at least seem to be introducing models with more horsepower. I'm still "surviving" on a late-2015 15" MBP, which is making me twitchy because I'm down to one machine after my late-2011 17" MBP - which I used as my studio machine (built-in Firewire FTW) - died last week due to the somewhat infamous discrete GPU overheating issue (and Apple will no longer repair it; possibly fair enough after 8 years trouble-free use). I've resorted to buying a heatgun and some thermal paste to try fixing it, and will probably source a spare machine from that era for scavenging parts in future. I'm also considering a used 27" iMac from a similar era for the studio, although it's not so convenient to tote around. Other options include buying a Windows laptop (probably Lenovo, which seem decent), although I hate Windows so would prefer to avoid it. Linux, although perfectly fine for a lot of what I do (and would I think be fine on many Lenovo models), will only run Ableton Live via Wine, which is not a prospect that fills me with joyful anticipation (ditto, Microsoft Office, I believe). [1] A lot of people love the 2015 models and, I agree, they're not bad, but the rot had already set it. For me, peak MBP occurred a few years earlier, back in 2011: HDD and memory are both upgradeable, battery is easily replaced, and in fact the modular design of the interior makes it fairly straightforward to pull out and replace or clean most internal components (motherboard, optical drive, fans, etc.). The GPU overheating design flaw is, however, a big fail, so these machines are still far from perfect.

mark_l_watson 7y ago

Nice rig! In a way I guess I am happy that they don’t have CUDA/deep learning support so I am not tempted to buy one. It pays for Apple to provide very fast dev machines to support iOS and macOS platforms, and my Dad has been waiting for a new release to support 3D animation and video production.

todd8 7y ago

I’m not sure Apple is listening. I’ve had four Mac Pros over the years, and I’ve been waiting for years to replace my current (6-core, 32GB/512GB) 2013 Mac Pro. I won’t be buying the new Mac Pro. I’ve ordered an upgraded new Mac Mini for MacOS work instead. I really like my low end Dell servers running Linux so I’ll probably look for a Dell workstation to get a system with Xeon cpu and ECC memory. Maybe I’ll build a Threadripper system.

throwawaymanbot 7y ago

CHRIST ON A Unicornnnnnn... I had just dealt with Alexa.....

ksec 7y ago

I see a lot of people complaining about Mac Pro not for them and iMac / Pro doesn't fit their needs / price point. Is there any reason why Apple isn't considering the option of using AMD?

swhitt 7y ago
The main rumor these days (well, it's been a rumor for quite a few years) is that they'll be dropping Intel and switching to house-designed ARM chips across the board.
- ksec 7y ago
  Well that would be the case if they didn't introduce Mac Pro. And now it is obvious that Apple don't want to do that, at least there is no way Apple is going to design a 250W CPU just for the Mac Pro.

musicale 7y ago

> Apple has doubled-down on its refusal to sell user-serviceable, upgradeable, and expandable hardware at prices that are within reach for most customers Apple needs to bring back something like the Quadra 700, which was only $5700 in 1991. ;-) Though I suppose what you are asking for is actually the 1st gen Mac Pro, which was $2500 in 2006.

acroback 7y ago

Stockholm syndrome is strong with this one. On a serious note, problem seems to be extremely long product cycles for Apple Hardware products with "my way or highway attitude" from Apple. These 2 make for a disaster recipe. Putting form before function is a fallacy which is bound to boomerang sooner or later. E.g The monitor stand fiasco speaks volumes of either a disconnect or ridicule raised by wrong audience. The latest MacBook pro is a bad and good design both depending on audience. Last Mac Pro was laughably form before function for a fortune.