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For most people, alcohol isn’t addictive in the same way that smoking or sugar is. If you eat stuff with a lot of sugar it makes things without sugar actually t

For most people, alcohol isn’t addictive in the same way that smoking or sugar is. If you eat stuff with a lot of sugar it makes things without sugar actually taste worse. Whereas drinking alcohol doesn’t make water taste worse or whatever. Also alcohol only kills 80k or so Americans per year, way less than smoking or sugar.

dyarosla 7y ago
Source re:addictiveness?
- pmarreck 7y ago
  Alcohol: https://www.niaaa.nih.gov/alcohol-health/overview-alcohol-consumption/alcohol-facts-and-statistics https://www.niaaa.nih.gov/alcohol-health/overview-alcohol-co... Sugar: https://www.healthline.com/health/food-nutrition/experts-is-sugar-addictive-drug https://www.healthline.com/health/food-nutrition/experts-is-...
  - buboard 7y ago
    the second is not a good source. The title is misleading as the article itself says experts don't agree. I don't think it's clear what is an "addiction", as addiction is part of how humans (and all brains) work. reinforcement of reward is necessary for normal function. The most discrete sign of addiction would be the molecular switch DeltaFosB which is manifest in behavioral and drug addictions. However, for things like sugar things are more nuanced. The two are also hard to compare side-to-side because alcohol addiction is like 50-70% genetic, and the effects tend affect other people more severely while sugar basically harms the person who eats it.
    - pmarreck 7y ago
      > the second is not a good source. That's the genetic fallacy. They link to a number of other sources from that article with supporting information such as a Connecticut College study and a Princeton University study. I would deem university sources "good" (although you're still subject to cherry-picking and the like)
umvi 7y ago
I think you are underestimating the costs of alcohol on society by reducing it to "just" a death count. I won't deny that sugar consumption is a public health crisis. But on the other hand, consuming sugar mainly only harms yourself. People that consume sugar (usually) don't go kill innocent people or tear apart their family or cause all sorts of permanent physical and mental issues in children.
- gist 7y ago
  > But on the other hand, consuming sugar mainly only harms yourself. See my comment re: health care costs (which everyone pays for).
  - jejones3141 7y ago
    Is the next step forbidding dangerous hobbies like mountain climbing? Maybe taking more than one job to support a large family or accumulate college funds for one's children--"you're not getting enough sleep, which increases health care costs that we pay for."
    - pfortuny 7y ago
      And... euthanasia is the solution to all health cost problems, also.
    - jacobolus 7y ago
      Yes, if people need to work multiple jobs that is an indication of a huge societal problem. The workers in those jobs are being abused by the society and collectively we should fix it. We should change the law to make sure that every job pays a living wage, so that people are not forced to work 60+ hours per week at irregular hours plus commute time etc. just to survive. We should increase social support for families and children. We should strive to reduce the cost of housing, transportation, healthcare, and education. Our society is rich enough to dramatically increase public funding for primary and secondary education and adequately train and support career teachers, dramatically increase funding for social workers, mental health professionals, etc.
gist 7y ago
> Also alcohol only kills 80k or so Americans per year Important to point out that the negative health impact of any 'vice' (and you can consider sugar a vice given this discussion) go way beyond just 'death'. There are so many negative impacts that are significant vs. just 'how many people die'. For example health care costs and related health problems (which result in economic impact as well as costs for everyone).
llamathrowaway 7y ago
Is there any reliable source to back up the claim that sugar is more addictive than alcohol? I am suspicious about this claim because there are plenty of people and families ruined directly as a result of alcoholism. I don’t think sugar addiction is causing nearly as much trouble as alcoholism, despite being a more widely consumed and easily available substance.
- ardit33 7y ago
  The number of "Obese People" far outweighs the number of chronic alcoholics... we are talking about almost 1/3rd of the population being obese (i.e. not just a bit fat, or chubby, just straight out obese).
  - Xylakant 7y ago
    I’d question if this is purely the result of a sugar addiction. This is a very American figure, other countries have less problems, even though sugar is widely available. Obesity has a variety of contributing factors, (lack of) access to actual healthy food, lack of physical exercise, high calorie intake (certainly aided by sugar), ...
    - jakeogh 7y ago
      There appears to be a positive (bad) feedback loop many people hit involving gut bacteria.
  - fwip 7y ago
    But a BMI in the low 30's is better for you than alcoholism. If you're six foot and 230lbs, that's a BMI of 31, which is obese. Here's some pictures of guys with that build: https://www.height-weight-chart.com/600-230.html https://www.height-weight-chart.com/600-230.html They're not very fit, but they look "a bit fat/chubby" to my eyes - not dangerously unhealthy like your comment seems to imply.
    - orwin 7y ago
bunderbunder 7y ago
If you're referring to the CDC figure, then I doubt you're making an apples-to-apples comparison. That figure's based on the deaths that are easily attributable to serious alcohol over-consumption, like cirrhosis or car wrecks. It doesn't include things like increased cancer or heart disease risk. Whereas the oft-quoted figures for smoking and sugar are pretty much all about things like increased cancer or heart disease risk. I'm not sure what the numbers would be like if you _did_ include those diseases in the alcohol death figures, but I wouldn't be surprised if it ends up somewhere between smoking and sugar.
- Alex3917 7y ago
  Fair enough, even if it kills 5% of Americans instead of 3.6% though, I doubt that more advertising restrictions would make much difference. I’d much rather reinstate the ban on DTC prescription drug ads.
istjohn 7y ago
The local university research hospital emergency room is busiest by far on Friday and Saturday nights due to alcohol-related incidents. NIDA puts the overall US national cost of tobacco use at $300 billion and of alcohol use at $249 billion. It's impossible to become physically dependent on sugar, whereas an alcoholic can die if they quit cold turkey.
- purplerabbit 7y ago
  Sure. But there are 300,000 obesity-related deaths per year. Obesity- and sugar-related issues are less likely to result in ER-type scenarios, but are nevertheless pervasive.
intrasight 7y ago
I'm fine with alcohol sales. I'm not fine with alcohol in advertising nor in television shows.
buboard 7y ago
> If you eat stuff with a lot of sugar it makes things without sugar actually taste worse. You can still eat less sugary stuff in general (which is what most people do). Changing your taste is not addiction, it's a reasonable shift in preferences. > only kills 80k or so Americans per year Society may care more about alcohol addiction because it tends to affect people other than the alcohol consumer.
V-2 7y ago
Not to mention there are social limitations to alcohol consumption. Eg. you wouldn't normally drink whisky on the bus or at work (unless you happen to be a character from "Mad Men"), but there aren't many times nor places where eating a chocolate bar is frowned upon.

dyarosla 7y ago

Source re:addictiveness?

pmarreck 7y ago
Alcohol: https://www.niaaa.nih.gov/alcohol-health/overview-alcohol-consumption/alcohol-facts-and-statistics https://www.niaaa.nih.gov/alcohol-health/overview-alcohol-co... Sugar: https://www.healthline.com/health/food-nutrition/experts-is-sugar-addictive-drug https://www.healthline.com/health/food-nutrition/experts-is-...
- buboard 7y ago
  the second is not a good source. The title is misleading as the article itself says experts don't agree. I don't think it's clear what is an "addiction", as addiction is part of how humans (and all brains) work. reinforcement of reward is necessary for normal function. The most discrete sign of addiction would be the molecular switch DeltaFosB which is manifest in behavioral and drug addictions. However, for things like sugar things are more nuanced. The two are also hard to compare side-to-side because alcohol addiction is like 50-70% genetic, and the effects tend affect other people more severely while sugar basically harms the person who eats it.
  - pmarreck 7y ago
    > the second is not a good source. That's the genetic fallacy. They link to a number of other sources from that article with supporting information such as a Connecticut College study and a Princeton University study. I would deem university sources "good" (although you're still subject to cherry-picking and the like)

umvi 7y ago

I think you are underestimating the costs of alcohol on society by reducing it to "just" a death count. I won't deny that sugar consumption is a public health crisis. But on the other hand, consuming sugar mainly only harms yourself. People that consume sugar (usually) don't go kill innocent people or tear apart their family or cause all sorts of permanent physical and mental issues in children.

gist 7y ago
> But on the other hand, consuming sugar mainly only harms yourself. See my comment re: health care costs (which everyone pays for).
- jejones3141 7y ago
  Is the next step forbidding dangerous hobbies like mountain climbing? Maybe taking more than one job to support a large family or accumulate college funds for one's children--"you're not getting enough sleep, which increases health care costs that we pay for."
  - pfortuny 7y ago
    And... euthanasia is the solution to all health cost problems, also.
  - jacobolus 7y ago
    Yes, if people need to work multiple jobs that is an indication of a huge societal problem. The workers in those jobs are being abused by the society and collectively we should fix it. We should change the law to make sure that every job pays a living wage, so that people are not forced to work 60+ hours per week at irregular hours plus commute time etc. just to survive. We should increase social support for families and children. We should strive to reduce the cost of housing, transportation, healthcare, and education. Our society is rich enough to dramatically increase public funding for primary and secondary education and adequately train and support career teachers, dramatically increase funding for social workers, mental health professionals, etc.

gist 7y ago

> Also alcohol only kills 80k or so Americans per year Important to point out that the negative health impact of any 'vice' (and you can consider sugar a vice given this discussion) go way beyond just 'death'. There are so many negative impacts that are significant vs. just 'how many people die'. For example health care costs and related health problems (which result in economic impact as well as costs for everyone).

llamathrowaway 7y ago

Is there any reliable source to back up the claim that sugar is more addictive than alcohol? I am suspicious about this claim because there are plenty of people and families ruined directly as a result of alcoholism. I don’t think sugar addiction is causing nearly as much trouble as alcoholism, despite being a more widely consumed and easily available substance.

ardit33 7y ago
The number of "Obese People" far outweighs the number of chronic alcoholics... we are talking about almost 1/3rd of the population being obese (i.e. not just a bit fat, or chubby, just straight out obese).
- Xylakant 7y ago
  I’d question if this is purely the result of a sugar addiction. This is a very American figure, other countries have less problems, even though sugar is widely available. Obesity has a variety of contributing factors, (lack of) access to actual healthy food, lack of physical exercise, high calorie intake (certainly aided by sugar), ...
  - jakeogh 7y ago
    There appears to be a positive (bad) feedback loop many people hit involving gut bacteria.
- fwip 7y ago
  But a BMI in the low 30's is better for you than alcoholism. If you're six foot and 230lbs, that's a BMI of 31, which is obese. Here's some pictures of guys with that build: https://www.height-weight-chart.com/600-230.html https://www.height-weight-chart.com/600-230.html They're not very fit, but they look "a bit fat/chubby" to my eyes - not dangerously unhealthy like your comment seems to imply.
  - orwin 7y ago

bunderbunder 7y ago

If you're referring to the CDC figure, then I doubt you're making an apples-to-apples comparison. That figure's based on the deaths that are easily attributable to serious alcohol over-consumption, like cirrhosis or car wrecks. It doesn't include things like increased cancer or heart disease risk. Whereas the oft-quoted figures for smoking and sugar are pretty much all about things like increased cancer or heart disease risk. I'm not sure what the numbers would be like if you _did_ include those diseases in the alcohol death figures, but I wouldn't be surprised if it ends up somewhere between smoking and sugar.

Alex3917 7y ago
Fair enough, even if it kills 5% of Americans instead of 3.6% though, I doubt that more advertising restrictions would make much difference. I’d much rather reinstate the ban on DTC prescription drug ads.

istjohn 7y ago

The local university research hospital emergency room is busiest by far on Friday and Saturday nights due to alcohol-related incidents. NIDA puts the overall US national cost of tobacco use at $300 billion and of alcohol use at $249 billion. It's impossible to become physically dependent on sugar, whereas an alcoholic can die if they quit cold turkey.

purplerabbit 7y ago
Sure. But there are 300,000 obesity-related deaths per year. Obesity- and sugar-related issues are less likely to result in ER-type scenarios, but are nevertheless pervasive.

intrasight 7y ago

I'm fine with alcohol sales. I'm not fine with alcohol in advertising nor in television shows.

buboard 7y ago

> If you eat stuff with a lot of sugar it makes things without sugar actually taste worse. You can still eat less sugary stuff in general (which is what most people do). Changing your taste is not addiction, it's a reasonable shift in preferences. > only kills 80k or so Americans per year Society may care more about alcohol addiction because it tends to affect people other than the alcohol consumer.

V-2 7y ago

Not to mention there are social limitations to alcohol consumption. Eg. you wouldn't normally drink whisky on the bus or at work (unless you happen to be a character from "Mad Men"), but there aren't many times nor places where eating a chocolate bar is frowned upon.