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When 90% of the plugins and tutorials are available for proprietary software it’s hard to support blender. It also doesn’t help that the UI of the blender is e

When 90% of the plugins and tutorials are available for proprietary software it’s hard to support blender. It also doesn’t help that the UI of the blender is extremely hostile for new users. When other tools are easier to use and have better tooling it’s hard to justify the usage of blender.

wlesieutre 7y ago
2.8 is a big step forward for the new user experience. https://www.blender.org/2-8/#user-interface https://www.blender.org/2-8/#user-interface They’re also finally switching the default to left click select. Having to select with right click was one of the big things that made the UI feel really alien for anyone who hasn’t used it a lot.
- Washuu 7y ago
  Blender 2.8 is literally the reason I am starting to actually learn 3D modelling. I have repeatedly tried 2.7 and could never get around that clunky interface along with the default mouse controls.
  - Theodores 7y ago
    2.79b is what you get with stock Ubuntu. Is it worth getting 2.8 if one is starting now?
    - kilpikaarna 7y ago
      It's still in beta with a release slated for July, but yes.
    - wlesieutre 7y ago
      It hasn’t hit the official release yet, but I would. Otherwise you’re learning an interface that’ll go away in a month. One benefit of 2.7 is that there are a more preexisting tutorials out for it, but 2.8 is getting quite a few as well. I haven’t been following too closely on what the best new tutorials are, but I saw some linked here the other day: https://reddit.com/r/blender/comments/by7ejt/having_bounced_off_blender_many_times_i_gave_28_a/ https://reddit.com/r/blender/comments/by7ejt/having_bounced_...
- asutekku 7y ago
  It is a good step forward. However a lot damage has been done already as blender is known to be the tool that is extremely hard to learn. It’s hard to lose the mark when it’s there.
derefr 7y ago
> plugins are available for proprietary software I’m genuinely surprised that FOSS projects like Blender (or, for another example, GIMP) don’t offer ABI compatibility to allow the use of plugins made for the specific nonstandard ABIs of popular proprietary systems. Anyone know why they don’t? Is it just a platform thing—e.g. having to support those plugins would mean having to compile winelib into your project?
- mapgrep 7y ago
  Can whomever is downvoting explain why this approach wouldn’t work? I think the above is a very insightful comment.
  - jjoonathan 7y ago
    I didn't downvote, but I would expect most programmers to be able to guess at the gigantic amount of effort required to maintain compatibility across a considerable semantic mismatch and at least understand the choice to spend resources elsewhere, especially in the context of open source, where there is no payroll to mitigate drudgery.
- lozenge 7y ago
  Probably the internal data model is different? So ABI compatibility would mean rewriting an entire model into the in-memory format of the other software, running the plugin and converting back.
- insulanus 7y ago
  This is incredibly hard to do, because you have to emulate the innards of the other program. Exposing an identical API for something is super easy, it's what happens on the inside of the program that takes all the work. And since you can't know what's in the other program, it could get as difficult as e.g. reverse-engineering video card drivers.
- zrobotics 7y ago
  I would imagine it is due to copyright concerns-see Google's Java API implementation woes. Additionally, the wine devs have very specific rules [0] about who can contribute, ideally they don't want contributions from people who have read the win2k leaked source. And I certainly wouldn't want to give Adobe any reasons to sue me, especially as Blender almost certainly can't afford to fight them in court. [0] https://wiki.winehq.org/Developer_FAQ#Who_can.27t_contribute_to_Wine.3F https://wiki.winehq.org/Developer_FAQ#Who_can.27t_contribute...
Causality1 7y ago
This. Back when I was trying to learn Blender as a hobby I had no issue finding tutorials, but they were for a variety of Blender versions. For most programs that would be a non-issue but Blender seemed to radically alter its UI with every update. Buttons were moved to different submenus, entire menu categories were added or dissolved, and keyboard shortcuts would either not work or do something different than described in a tutorial that was only a few months old.
- Animats 7y ago
  Yes. The big question in Blender is usually "where did (function) go?" In 2.8, the mouse buttons have different meaning. Still, the UI has gone from appallingly bad a decade ago to sort of OK in 2.79. Haven't tried 2.8 yet; it's still in beta.
  - pbhjpbhj 7y ago
    This is a general issue for software I find - where is function X [now] (when I know function X exists). For settings, eg on phones, MS Windows, Linux, this used to be a big problem to and it has been solved by simply including a settings search. Is it time apps had a "search" on the application menu that would then open the relevant dialog, or perhaps optionally allow the finding of the menu item (eg open the menu, open the sub-menu, highlight the menu item that opens the dialog, pause, open the dialog)? I had the same issue earlier, where is the Voice settings in Steam -- it strikes me if I can type "voice" in a function-search on the main menu that would be better than trawling for help info online.

wlesieutre 7y ago

2.8 is a big step forward for the new user experience. https://www.blender.org/2-8/#user-interface https://www.blender.org/2-8/#user-interface They’re also finally switching the default to left click select. Having to select with right click was one of the big things that made the UI feel really alien for anyone who hasn’t used it a lot.

Washuu 7y ago
Blender 2.8 is literally the reason I am starting to actually learn 3D modelling. I have repeatedly tried 2.7 and could never get around that clunky interface along with the default mouse controls.
- Theodores 7y ago
  2.79b is what you get with stock Ubuntu. Is it worth getting 2.8 if one is starting now?
  - kilpikaarna 7y ago
    It's still in beta with a release slated for July, but yes.
  - wlesieutre 7y ago
    It hasn’t hit the official release yet, but I would. Otherwise you’re learning an interface that’ll go away in a month. One benefit of 2.7 is that there are a more preexisting tutorials out for it, but 2.8 is getting quite a few as well. I haven’t been following too closely on what the best new tutorials are, but I saw some linked here the other day: https://reddit.com/r/blender/comments/by7ejt/having_bounced_off_blender_many_times_i_gave_28_a/ https://reddit.com/r/blender/comments/by7ejt/having_bounced_...
asutekku 7y ago
It is a good step forward. However a lot damage has been done already as blender is known to be the tool that is extremely hard to learn. It’s hard to lose the mark when it’s there.

derefr 7y ago

> plugins are available for proprietary software I’m genuinely surprised that FOSS projects like Blender (or, for another example, GIMP) don’t offer ABI compatibility to allow the use of plugins made for the specific nonstandard ABIs of popular proprietary systems. Anyone know why they don’t? Is it just a platform thing—e.g. having to support those plugins would mean having to compile winelib into your project?

mapgrep 7y ago
Can whomever is downvoting explain why this approach wouldn’t work? I think the above is a very insightful comment.
- jjoonathan 7y ago
  I didn't downvote, but I would expect most programmers to be able to guess at the gigantic amount of effort required to maintain compatibility across a considerable semantic mismatch and at least understand the choice to spend resources elsewhere, especially in the context of open source, where there is no payroll to mitigate drudgery.
lozenge 7y ago
Probably the internal data model is different? So ABI compatibility would mean rewriting an entire model into the in-memory format of the other software, running the plugin and converting back.
insulanus 7y ago
This is incredibly hard to do, because you have to emulate the innards of the other program. Exposing an identical API for something is super easy, it's what happens on the inside of the program that takes all the work. And since you can't know what's in the other program, it could get as difficult as e.g. reverse-engineering video card drivers.
zrobotics 7y ago
I would imagine it is due to copyright concerns-see Google's Java API implementation woes. Additionally, the wine devs have very specific rules [0] about who can contribute, ideally they don't want contributions from people who have read the win2k leaked source. And I certainly wouldn't want to give Adobe any reasons to sue me, especially as Blender almost certainly can't afford to fight them in court. [0] https://wiki.winehq.org/Developer_FAQ#Who_can.27t_contribute_to_Wine.3F https://wiki.winehq.org/Developer_FAQ#Who_can.27t_contribute...

Causality1 7y ago

This. Back when I was trying to learn Blender as a hobby I had no issue finding tutorials, but they were for a variety of Blender versions. For most programs that would be a non-issue but Blender seemed to radically alter its UI with every update. Buttons were moved to different submenus, entire menu categories were added or dissolved, and keyboard shortcuts would either not work or do something different than described in a tutorial that was only a few months old.

Animats 7y ago
Yes. The big question in Blender is usually "where did (function) go?" In 2.8, the mouse buttons have different meaning. Still, the UI has gone from appallingly bad a decade ago to sort of OK in 2.79. Haven't tried 2.8 yet; it's still in beta.
- pbhjpbhj 7y ago
  This is a general issue for software I find - where is function X [now] (when I know function X exists). For settings, eg on phones, MS Windows, Linux, this used to be a big problem to and it has been solved by simply including a settings search. Is it time apps had a "search" on the application menu that would then open the relevant dialog, or perhaps optionally allow the finding of the menu item (eg open the menu, open the sub-menu, highlight the menu item that opens the dialog, pause, open the dialog)? I had the same issue earlier, where is the Voice settings in Steam -- it strikes me if I can type "voice" in a function-search on the main menu that would be better than trawling for help info online.