5 ms·

Cowboy Proves That E-Bikes with Removable Batteries Can Be Beautiful

73 points by notlukesky 7y ago

tonyedgecombe 7y ago
Nice although I prefer a crank motor.
- amelius 7y ago
  Why? Could you explain the difference?
  - barbegal 7y ago
    You can have actual gears like on an ordinary bike so you can ride it normally without the electric motor operating
    - deleted 7y ago
      [deleted]
    - yesimahuman 7y ago
      Can do that with a front hub motor as well, a very valid option
      - amelius 7y ago
        Does this particular bike (Cowboy) allow that?
  - anotherboffin 7y ago
    Crank motor will allow you to have derailleur gearing (with a chain) or a hub gearbox (Shimano Alfine, for instance) while keeping that nice, low-maintenance belt drive.
- INTPenis 7y ago
  I agree. My first and only e-bike was a crowdfunded Mate.bike. It had a removable battery, a rear cassette with 7 gears and it was foldable. Unfortunately I was too tall for it and was going to sell it when it was stolen. I got more from insurance than I would have sold it for so I'm happy. The frame just wasn't adapted for tall people and it gave me back ache after 10km.
convery 7y ago
Looks nice, but hopefully someone that has owned an E-bike can explain something for me: should you remove that battery when you park the bike (for fear of theft) or just for charging?
- anotherboffin 7y ago
  I don't own one, but I rode quite a few and sold a lot of them (mainly powered by Bosch systems) in a previous job. It obviously depends where you live, but most of the time, it's recommended to remove the battery for fear of theft, protection from the cold (part of the year), and (obviously) charging. Protection from theft because a battery generally represents a significant amount of the total cost of the bike. A 500 Wh Bosch battery runs around $1K, and I've seen more exotic ones run up to about $2.4k. Also, they're not that easy to steal, but someone with the intent of stealing could also damage the battery enough and compromise the weather sealing (for example) which could be a significant security risk. edit: clarification
JackC 7y ago
I just bought an ebike last week. I ended up looking at bikes that were "ugly" (no attempt to hide what it is), cheap ($1250-$1500), and fast (class 3, up to 28 mph): https://www.aventon.com/products/aventon-pace-500-complete-bike https://www.aventon.com/products/aventon-pace-500-complete-b... https://ride1up.com/product/city/ https://ride1up.com/product/city/ https://www.juicedbikes.com/products/crosscurrent-s https://www.juicedbikes.com/products/crosscurrent-s Out of those I went with the Aventon, which had a local bike shop selling and supporting it. 50-mile impressions: it's fun; being a cross between a motorcycle and a bike is the fastest way I know to get around Boston at rush hour; it feels safer than biking, because I can almost always go the speed of car traffic and take the whole lane without getting passed; 28mph is handy, even in rush hour city traffic. It's interesting knowing that these things can be made much more beautifully -- it's still such a young industry that there's lots of room to figure out new standards that will improve things for everyone. It will be neat to see them evolve.
- abbe_k 7y ago
  Wow, that is really fast for a bike. Are you allowed to drive these bikes on all bike paths and such? Where I live (Sweden) they are limited to 25 km/h (~16 mph).
  - JackC 7y ago
    California is the farthest ahead in regulating them in the US. 28 MPH is the top speed for a "Class 3" bike, and is barred from some bike paths in California: https://currentebikes.com/ebike-classes-california/ https://currentebikes.com/ebike-classes-california/ In practice I ride it like a car when I'm going car speed, and like a bike when I'm going bike speed -- my goal is for it to always feel safe to people around me given where it is.
- amelius 7y ago
  That's fast, I hope you are wearing a helmet.
  - JackC 7y ago
wffurr 7y ago
I suppose it has a certain aesthetic but it's pretty far from what I consider a "beautiful" bicycle. This one is a lot closer: https://www.instagram.com/p/BsVu9Idn8AO/ https://www.instagram.com/p/BsVu9Idn8AO/ Also I am not sure someone like the author with an "aggressive" riding style can be trusted with the extra power from an ebike. People like that are aggravating enough with a standard track bike. Not sure I want that kind of smarts in a bike either. App enabled, GPS tracking? How long until a "my left shoe is bricked" firmware update, or the company goes out of business and no one can unlock their bikes?
- tachyonbeam 7y ago
  > I am not sure someone like the author with an "aggressive" riding style can be trusted with the extra power from an ebike. Agreed. I have an ebike that peaks around 1250W (technically not legal). It's a mountain bike with a mid-drive motor, and it can reach 35MPH on a flat road. It definitely feels nice to have that kind of acceleration, but I fully understand the reason for software speed limiting. Past about 20 MPH, it doesn't feel very safe. At those speeds, I intuitively know that if I fall, I'm in real trouble because I'm not adequately protected. The ebike is also fast enough that the bike lane feels very slow. I definitely wouldn't want to put this in the hands of annoying teenagers who will try to race each other through the city, they'd kill themselves.
nihonde 7y ago
Electric bikes with a removable battery are standard-issue “MamaChari” in Japan. Every city mom has one that carries two kids and/or groceries. Every grandma/grandpa has one (without the kids seats), too, to tackle the long hills! Ebikes in Japan cost about $1,200 in USD equivalent, more or less. https://www.japantimes.co.jp/life/2017/11/18/lifestyle/going-electric-celebrating-japans-powerful-e-bikes/#.XP0OYyUpDDs https://www.japantimes.co.jp/life/2017/11/18/lifestyle/going... I also notice that Chinese-style ebikes have taken root in a big way in NYC’s delivery business. Those cheap Chinese ebikes (and strange little service garages for them) are everywhere now!
- frabbit 7y ago
  All true. But they are not what many of us that are used to road bikes would call beautiful.
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
whenchamenia 7y ago
This is a thinly veiled advert. There are nicer looking ebikes out there if you are into form over function.
- frabbit 7y ago
  Some of them manage to combine form and function (lower weight, securely stored and weatherproofed batteries). One of the best review sites is EBikeTips¹¸the sister site of road.cc. I like the looks of the Ampler range a lot but am sadly not within their distribution area. 1. https://ebiketips.road.cc/content/reviews/electric-hybrid/ribble-hybrid-al-e-1879 https://ebiketips.road.cc/content/reviews/electric-hybrid/ri...
norswap 7y ago
The bike looks great! But why choose the low handlebar? Especially since this isn't a sports bike or a mountain bike (without mudguards, imagine). Do people really fancy being hunched over during their commute?
- ebg13 7y ago
  People all over the world favor looking cool over being comfortable. Americans extend that to bicycles as well.
  - Someone 7y ago
    To look cool, you want to be visible, so I would think looking cool is harder with low handle bars. (https://www.google.com/search?q=cycle+chic&tbm=isch https://www.google.com/search?q=cycle+chic&tbm=isch)
    - deleted 7y ago
      [deleted]
    - ebg13 7y ago
      Half of the bikes in those photos have drop bars.
seaghost 7y ago
This bike is very bad for your back.
aasasd 7y ago
Forget the battery, I'm now cursed with knowledge that I've chosen colors clownishly wrong and did the lights horribly wrong on my last bike. Especially compared to those VanMoofs.
danielscrubs 7y ago
Beautiful bike? It looks like any other e-bike over here. And why would such a subjective thing be put front and center? We are better than this HN! Don’t upvote!
rstuart4133 7y ago
It may not be ugly, but I wouldn't want one. You want the weight as low down as possible. The heaviest thing is the battery, so at a minimum you want that mounted near the peddle crank. The next heaviest thing is the motor. Modern setups make the motor drive the pedal crank. Beauty does not mean functional. cf: high heeled shoes.

73 points by notlukesky 7y ago

tonyedgecombe 7y ago

Nice although I prefer a crank motor.

amelius 7y ago
Why? Could you explain the difference?
- barbegal 7y ago
  You can have actual gears like on an ordinary bike so you can ride it normally without the electric motor operating
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
  - yesimahuman 7y ago
    Can do that with a front hub motor as well, a very valid option
    - amelius 7y ago
      Does this particular bike (Cowboy) allow that?
- anotherboffin 7y ago
  Crank motor will allow you to have derailleur gearing (with a chain) or a hub gearbox (Shimano Alfine, for instance) while keeping that nice, low-maintenance belt drive.
INTPenis 7y ago
I agree. My first and only e-bike was a crowdfunded Mate.bike. It had a removable battery, a rear cassette with 7 gears and it was foldable. Unfortunately I was too tall for it and was going to sell it when it was stolen. I got more from insurance than I would have sold it for so I'm happy. The frame just wasn't adapted for tall people and it gave me back ache after 10km.

convery 7y ago

Looks nice, but hopefully someone that has owned an E-bike can explain something for me: should you remove that battery when you park the bike (for fear of theft) or just for charging?

anotherboffin 7y ago
I don't own one, but I rode quite a few and sold a lot of them (mainly powered by Bosch systems) in a previous job. It obviously depends where you live, but most of the time, it's recommended to remove the battery for fear of theft, protection from the cold (part of the year), and (obviously) charging. Protection from theft because a battery generally represents a significant amount of the total cost of the bike. A 500 Wh Bosch battery runs around $1K, and I've seen more exotic ones run up to about $2.4k. Also, they're not that easy to steal, but someone with the intent of stealing could also damage the battery enough and compromise the weather sealing (for example) which could be a significant security risk. edit: clarification

JackC 7y ago

I just bought an ebike last week. I ended up looking at bikes that were "ugly" (no attempt to hide what it is), cheap ($1250-$1500), and fast (class 3, up to 28 mph): https://www.aventon.com/products/aventon-pace-500-complete-bike https://www.aventon.com/products/aventon-pace-500-complete-b... https://ride1up.com/product/city/ https://ride1up.com/product/city/ https://www.juicedbikes.com/products/crosscurrent-s https://www.juicedbikes.com/products/crosscurrent-s Out of those I went with the Aventon, which had a local bike shop selling and supporting it. 50-mile impressions: it's fun; being a cross between a motorcycle and a bike is the fastest way I know to get around Boston at rush hour; it feels safer than biking, because I can almost always go the speed of car traffic and take the whole lane without getting passed; 28mph is handy, even in rush hour city traffic. It's interesting knowing that these things can be made much more beautifully -- it's still such a young industry that there's lots of room to figure out new standards that will improve things for everyone. It will be neat to see them evolve.

abbe_k 7y ago
Wow, that is really fast for a bike. Are you allowed to drive these bikes on all bike paths and such? Where I live (Sweden) they are limited to 25 km/h (~16 mph).
- JackC 7y ago
  California is the farthest ahead in regulating them in the US. 28 MPH is the top speed for a "Class 3" bike, and is barred from some bike paths in California: https://currentebikes.com/ebike-classes-california/ https://currentebikes.com/ebike-classes-california/ In practice I ride it like a car when I'm going car speed, and like a bike when I'm going bike speed -- my goal is for it to always feel safe to people around me given where it is.
amelius 7y ago
That's fast, I hope you are wearing a helmet.
- JackC 7y ago

wffurr 7y ago

I suppose it has a certain aesthetic but it's pretty far from what I consider a "beautiful" bicycle. This one is a lot closer: https://www.instagram.com/p/BsVu9Idn8AO/ https://www.instagram.com/p/BsVu9Idn8AO/ Also I am not sure someone like the author with an "aggressive" riding style can be trusted with the extra power from an ebike. People like that are aggravating enough with a standard track bike. Not sure I want that kind of smarts in a bike either. App enabled, GPS tracking? How long until a "my left shoe is bricked" firmware update, or the company goes out of business and no one can unlock their bikes?

tachyonbeam 7y ago
> I am not sure someone like the author with an "aggressive" riding style can be trusted with the extra power from an ebike. Agreed. I have an ebike that peaks around 1250W (technically not legal). It's a mountain bike with a mid-drive motor, and it can reach 35MPH on a flat road. It definitely feels nice to have that kind of acceleration, but I fully understand the reason for software speed limiting. Past about 20 MPH, it doesn't feel very safe. At those speeds, I intuitively know that if I fall, I'm in real trouble because I'm not adequately protected. The ebike is also fast enough that the bike lane feels very slow. I definitely wouldn't want to put this in the hands of annoying teenagers who will try to race each other through the city, they'd kill themselves.

nihonde 7y ago

Electric bikes with a removable battery are standard-issue “MamaChari” in Japan. Every city mom has one that carries two kids and/or groceries. Every grandma/grandpa has one (without the kids seats), too, to tackle the long hills! Ebikes in Japan cost about $1,200 in USD equivalent, more or less. https://www.japantimes.co.jp/life/2017/11/18/lifestyle/going-electric-celebrating-japans-powerful-e-bikes/#.XP0OYyUpDDs https://www.japantimes.co.jp/life/2017/11/18/lifestyle/going... I also notice that Chinese-style ebikes have taken root in a big way in NYC’s delivery business. Those cheap Chinese ebikes (and strange little service garages for them) are everywhere now!

frabbit 7y ago
All true. But they are not what many of us that are used to road bikes would call beautiful.

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

whenchamenia 7y ago

This is a thinly veiled advert. There are nicer looking ebikes out there if you are into form over function.

frabbit 7y ago
Some of them manage to combine form and function (lower weight, securely stored and weatherproofed batteries). One of the best review sites is EBikeTips¹¸the sister site of road.cc. I like the looks of the Ampler range a lot but am sadly not within their distribution area. 1. https://ebiketips.road.cc/content/reviews/electric-hybrid/ribble-hybrid-al-e-1879 https://ebiketips.road.cc/content/reviews/electric-hybrid/ri...

norswap 7y ago

The bike looks great! But why choose the low handlebar? Especially since this isn't a sports bike or a mountain bike (without mudguards, imagine). Do people really fancy being hunched over during their commute?

ebg13 7y ago
People all over the world favor looking cool over being comfortable. Americans extend that to bicycles as well.
- Someone 7y ago
  To look cool, you want to be visible, so I would think looking cool is harder with low handle bars. (https://www.google.com/search?q=cycle+chic&tbm=isch https://www.google.com/search?q=cycle+chic&tbm=isch)
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
  - ebg13 7y ago
    Half of the bikes in those photos have drop bars.

seaghost 7y ago

This bike is very bad for your back.

aasasd 7y ago

Forget the battery, I'm now cursed with knowledge that I've chosen colors clownishly wrong and did the lights horribly wrong on my last bike. Especially compared to those VanMoofs.

danielscrubs 7y ago

Beautiful bike? It looks like any other e-bike over here. And why would such a subjective thing be put front and center? We are better than this HN! Don’t upvote!

rstuart4133 7y ago

It may not be ugly, but I wouldn't want one. You want the weight as low down as possible. The heaviest thing is the battery, so at a minimum you want that mounted near the peddle crank. The next heaviest thing is the motor. Modern setups make the motor drive the pedal crank. Beauty does not mean functional. cf: high heeled shoes.