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I feel like things would be easier if Firefox could be embeded in another browser just like chromium can. Let Google cripple their browser for themselves, and

by jraph 7y ago

I feel like things would be easier if Firefox could be embeded in another browser just like chromium can. Let Google cripple their browser for themselves, and Mozilla provide the good and strong de facto browser engine.

yoz-y 7y ago
What is currently stopping its adoption? Iirc there were several browsers based on Gecko engine. Is it drm?
- sametmax 7y ago
  Firefox is probably still a legacy mix of XUL, cpp and migrating to rust. I'm pretty sure chrome is easier to adapt.
  - feanaro 7y ago
    XUL was replaced quite some time ago.
    - zaarn 7y ago
      There is still some XUL components/code floating around, it's being replaced and reduced with each release.
      - feanaro 7y ago
        Hmm, TIL. I was under the impression this work was already completed.
    - TazeTSchnitzel 7y ago
      XUL is not supported for extensions now, but has Firefox's UI really been fully rewritten in HTML yet?
      - jraph 7y ago
        No. If you open the browser console and type `window`, you see: ChromeWindow chrome://browser/content/browser.xul Visiting this link is funny by the way. Does this complicate having a standalone Gecko though? Surely browser authors could write their own UI and embed Gecko inside without touching XUL.
    - jccalhoun 7y ago
      >XBL stats update : >* 28 bindings (9.33% of original bindings) >* 10517 lines of code (21.02% of original LOCs) https://twitter.com/mozxbl https://twitter.com/mozxbl
      - feanaro 7y ago
        Yes, apparently I was wrong. Thanks for the additional data.
- enz 7y ago
  Unfortunately, Embedded Gecko is not supported anymore... https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Mozilla/Gecko/Embedding_Mozilla/FAQ/Embedding_Gecko https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Mozilla/Gecko/Embed... However, the new Servo engine will be embeddable.
Vinnl 7y ago
They're at least working on making that as easy as possible on Android: https://github.com/mozilla-mobile/android-components/ https://github.com/mozilla-mobile/android-components/ As I understand it, that should also make it relatively straightforward to switch between Servo and Gecko, as a developer. But I'm not an Android dev, so take that with a grain of salt.
izacus 7y ago
I haven't seen this talked about here but... last I checked Mozilla was in majority funded by Google royalties. What's their plan of aligning their income with essentially directly attacking their funding source?
- sudhirj 7y ago
  They’re not attacking anything - I don’t think ad blockers block search ads, which are embedded into search results - and Firefox royalties have always been for search.
  - bambax 7y ago
    > I don’t think ad blockers block search ads Of course they do.
    - hjek 7y ago
      uBlock Origin doesn't block search ads on DuckDuckGo. Edit: Never mind; just had to fiddle around with the filters.
- jraph 7y ago
  I guess Google could still be interested in being the default engine in Firefox even with ads and tracking blocked, since it would slow down alternatives from spreading. I would be more comfortable in Mozilla not being founded by Google though.
amelius 7y ago
> Let Google cripple their browser for themselves Web developers can also help here by making the UX slightly worse for Chrome users, e.g. by showing more ads.
- corrigible 7y ago
  "This site best viewed with..."
  - amelius 7y ago
    I was thinking more of: "Extra ads for Chrome users: ... Want less ads? Use ..." Bonus for putting the extra ads in a pop-over div.
    - muro 7y ago
      That makes no sense whatsoever for a business owner.
      - dogecoinbase 7y ago
        Not all websites are businesses.
- pszndr 7y ago
  We want less dark patterns in software, not more
kodablah 7y ago
> I feel like things would be easier if Firefox could be embeded in another browser just like chromium can. Completely agree. I made my own little browser (with ad blocker built in to the network layer) using CEF simply because there was not an easy to use FF equivalent library.

by jraph 7y ago

yoz-y 7y ago

What is currently stopping its adoption? Iirc there were several browsers based on Gecko engine. Is it drm?

sametmax 7y ago
Firefox is probably still a legacy mix of XUL, cpp and migrating to rust. I'm pretty sure chrome is easier to adapt.
- feanaro 7y ago
  XUL was replaced quite some time ago.
  - zaarn 7y ago
    There is still some XUL components/code floating around, it's being replaced and reduced with each release.
    - feanaro 7y ago
      Hmm, TIL. I was under the impression this work was already completed.
  - TazeTSchnitzel 7y ago
    XUL is not supported for extensions now, but has Firefox's UI really been fully rewritten in HTML yet?
    - jraph 7y ago
      No. If you open the browser console and type `window`, you see: ChromeWindow chrome://browser/content/browser.xul Visiting this link is funny by the way. Does this complicate having a standalone Gecko though? Surely browser authors could write their own UI and embed Gecko inside without touching XUL.
  - jccalhoun 7y ago
    >XBL stats update : >* 28 bindings (9.33% of original bindings) >* 10517 lines of code (21.02% of original LOCs) https://twitter.com/mozxbl https://twitter.com/mozxbl
    - feanaro 7y ago
      Yes, apparently I was wrong. Thanks for the additional data.
enz 7y ago
Unfortunately, Embedded Gecko is not supported anymore... https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Mozilla/Gecko/Embedding_Mozilla/FAQ/Embedding_Gecko https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Mozilla/Gecko/Embed... However, the new Servo engine will be embeddable.

Vinnl 7y ago

They're at least working on making that as easy as possible on Android: https://github.com/mozilla-mobile/android-components/ https://github.com/mozilla-mobile/android-components/ As I understand it, that should also make it relatively straightforward to switch between Servo and Gecko, as a developer. But I'm not an Android dev, so take that with a grain of salt.

izacus 7y ago

I haven't seen this talked about here but... last I checked Mozilla was in majority funded by Google royalties. What's their plan of aligning their income with essentially directly attacking their funding source?

sudhirj 7y ago
They’re not attacking anything - I don’t think ad blockers block search ads, which are embedded into search results - and Firefox royalties have always been for search.
- bambax 7y ago
  > I don’t think ad blockers block search ads Of course they do.
  - hjek 7y ago
    uBlock Origin doesn't block search ads on DuckDuckGo. Edit: Never mind; just had to fiddle around with the filters.
jraph 7y ago
I guess Google could still be interested in being the default engine in Firefox even with ads and tracking blocked, since it would slow down alternatives from spreading. I would be more comfortable in Mozilla not being founded by Google though.

amelius 7y ago

> Let Google cripple their browser for themselves Web developers can also help here by making the UX slightly worse for Chrome users, e.g. by showing more ads.

corrigible 7y ago
"This site best viewed with..."
- amelius 7y ago
  I was thinking more of: "Extra ads for Chrome users: ... Want less ads? Use ..." Bonus for putting the extra ads in a pop-over div.
  - muro 7y ago
    That makes no sense whatsoever for a business owner.
    - dogecoinbase 7y ago
      Not all websites are businesses.
pszndr 7y ago
We want less dark patterns in software, not more

kodablah 7y ago

> I feel like things would be easier if Firefox could be embeded in another browser just like chromium can. Completely agree. I made my own little browser (with ad blocker built in to the network layer) using CEF simply because there was not an easy to use FF equivalent library.