4 ms·

Can confirm this from another source. Old guy I met waiting for a flight in Vegas; he was on his way back from CES. Had run his own ISP a while back for a spe

by mises 7y ago

Can confirm this from another source. Old guy I met waiting for a flight in Vegas; he was on his way back from CES. Had run his own ISP a while back for a special purpose. Talked about this, Huawei's refusal to remove a back-door ("remote assistance and diagnosis feature" or some such malarkey), etc. They're not nice guys.

codedokode 7y ago
But Huawei is not different from other vendors here. For example: Windows has telemetry that cannot be disabled and sends data into American data centers, Apple has control over its phones around the world, can remotely block them and know their location, and who knows what else, Google tries to convince users from around the world to store all their data in an American cloud (not their own cloud, or a cloud in their country they can trust, but the cloud in US), and almost every Intel CPU has an additional CPU (ME engine) that has full control over the system, with encrypted firmware, and is not documented. Yet I don't see any accusations against Microsoft, Apple, Android or Intel.
- katbyte 7y ago
  Maybe because I trust those organizations (and even the American government) more the China as much as I hate to admit it. I don’t think you can really compare the companies.
  - lagadu 7y ago
    Plenty of us would rather trust China than the US, mostly because China has less influence in our countries than the US does.
    - mrkstu 7y ago
      I really don't get this POV. If it was just about a random Chinese company, sure, whatever, but Huawei though is 99% likely passing to the Chinese state, which is a geo-political entity that has more than a passing resemblance to some Hitler/Mao/Stalin hybrid that is fairly terrifying. It is rapidly scaling its military technology and reach, threatening neighbors over competing claims in the South China Sea, re-creating its own version of the Greater East Asia Co-Prosperity Sphere via the Belt and Road initiative and China 2025, interning its own citizens by the millions into re-education camps, forcing spying by its own citizens overseas by threatening family members, introducing a 'social credit' system to force not only self-censorship, but active promotion of its policies by its citizenry in order to not lose 'privileges' like taking the train. I understand that the Trumpian version of the US is annoying in many ways, but the idea that we let China and Chinese companies dominated by it's government (they literally have to pay Party minders to keep them in line) have unconstrained access to its geopolitical foes infrastructure beggars belief.
      - ephemeralism 7y ago
        The US have been the instigator in quite a number of wars of aggression, with devastating consequences for the countries targeted and the people living in them. They constantly threaten to start new attacks. Meanwhile China builds roads and bridges and trains and cheap electronics. Is it really that hard to see why one is preferred over the other?
        mrkstu 7y ago
        Noting that you didn't actually rebut any point I made...
        oefrha 7y ago
        You “really don’t get this POV”, and ephemeralism expanded on the POV you don’t get. Not to mention quite a few points of yours are heavily pushed narratives by the Western media based on thin or exaggerated evidence, when Western media are clearly not neutral on Chinese matter. Funny how you mentioned China “threatening” neighbors, and ephemeralism pointed out that the U.S. has started numerous wars (and bankrolled more), with boots on the ground.
  - AsyncAwait 7y ago
    I on the other hand, don't think China has the extrajudicial reach of the U.S. (yet?) & as an EU citizen I don't trust either the U.S., nor China, but I think my own government would not bow down to Chinese pressure, (i.e. to hand over info about me etc.), as they regularly do to American one, certainly not as easily. I don't think Kim Dotcom would have a military style raid on his house in NZ done on behalf of the Chinese government.
    - eastendguy 7y ago
      I think he would. Look how the EU/NZ is not helping Taiwan - in order to not offend China. It is a shame.
    - y2kenny 7y ago
      > I don't think Kim Dotcom would have a military style raid on his house in NZ done on behalf of the Chinese government. perhaps not, but in Thailand, yes. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/feb/03/activist-li-xin-vanished-in-thailand--held-in-china-says-wife https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/feb/03/activist-li-xi... https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/oct/05/hong-kong-activist-joshua-wong-detained-thailand-china-deportation https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/oct/05/hong-kong-acti...
- wolco 7y ago
  Because those companies have never released stolen material from offices they bugged. Microsoft's telemetry data is like sending the teacher a note that you viewed the material. Huawei hides a camera in your home steals your homework and beats you out of that college placement with your own material.
  - codedokode 7y ago
    Why doesn't Microsoft allow to disable it then? It is not like I asked for a teacher.
    - wolco 7y ago
      Because that's the product they are selling you decided to use it over an os that comes with the source code like Linux. Microsoft hasn't added telemetry to linux through a backdoor.
  - deroisas2y 7y ago
    And neither did Huawei.

by mises 7y ago

codedokode 7y ago

But Huawei is not different from other vendors here. For example: Windows has telemetry that cannot be disabled and sends data into American data centers, Apple has control over its phones around the world, can remotely block them and know their location, and who knows what else, Google tries to convince users from around the world to store all their data in an American cloud (not their own cloud, or a cloud in their country they can trust, but the cloud in US), and almost every Intel CPU has an additional CPU (ME engine) that has full control over the system, with encrypted firmware, and is not documented. Yet I don't see any accusations against Microsoft, Apple, Android or Intel.

katbyte 7y ago
Maybe because I trust those organizations (and even the American government) more the China as much as I hate to admit it. I don’t think you can really compare the companies.
- lagadu 7y ago
  Plenty of us would rather trust China than the US, mostly because China has less influence in our countries than the US does.
  - mrkstu 7y ago
    I really don't get this POV. If it was just about a random Chinese company, sure, whatever, but Huawei though is 99% likely passing to the Chinese state, which is a geo-political entity that has more than a passing resemblance to some Hitler/Mao/Stalin hybrid that is fairly terrifying. It is rapidly scaling its military technology and reach, threatening neighbors over competing claims in the South China Sea, re-creating its own version of the Greater East Asia Co-Prosperity Sphere via the Belt and Road initiative and China 2025, interning its own citizens by the millions into re-education camps, forcing spying by its own citizens overseas by threatening family members, introducing a 'social credit' system to force not only self-censorship, but active promotion of its policies by its citizenry in order to not lose 'privileges' like taking the train. I understand that the Trumpian version of the US is annoying in many ways, but the idea that we let China and Chinese companies dominated by it's government (they literally have to pay Party minders to keep them in line) have unconstrained access to its geopolitical foes infrastructure beggars belief.
    - ephemeralism 7y ago
      The US have been the instigator in quite a number of wars of aggression, with devastating consequences for the countries targeted and the people living in them. They constantly threaten to start new attacks. Meanwhile China builds roads and bridges and trains and cheap electronics. Is it really that hard to see why one is preferred over the other?
      - mrkstu 7y ago
        Noting that you didn't actually rebut any point I made...
        oefrha 7y ago
        You “really don’t get this POV”, and ephemeralism expanded on the POV you don’t get. Not to mention quite a few points of yours are heavily pushed narratives by the Western media based on thin or exaggerated evidence, when Western media are clearly not neutral on Chinese matter. Funny how you mentioned China “threatening” neighbors, and ephemeralism pointed out that the U.S. has started numerous wars (and bankrolled more), with boots on the ground.
- AsyncAwait 7y ago
  I on the other hand, don't think China has the extrajudicial reach of the U.S. (yet?) & as an EU citizen I don't trust either the U.S., nor China, but I think my own government would not bow down to Chinese pressure, (i.e. to hand over info about me etc.), as they regularly do to American one, certainly not as easily. I don't think Kim Dotcom would have a military style raid on his house in NZ done on behalf of the Chinese government.
  - eastendguy 7y ago
    I think he would. Look how the EU/NZ is not helping Taiwan - in order to not offend China. It is a shame.
  - y2kenny 7y ago
    > I don't think Kim Dotcom would have a military style raid on his house in NZ done on behalf of the Chinese government. perhaps not, but in Thailand, yes. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/feb/03/activist-li-xin-vanished-in-thailand--held-in-china-says-wife https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/feb/03/activist-li-xi... https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/oct/05/hong-kong-activist-joshua-wong-detained-thailand-china-deportation https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/oct/05/hong-kong-acti...
wolco 7y ago
Because those companies have never released stolen material from offices they bugged. Microsoft's telemetry data is like sending the teacher a note that you viewed the material. Huawei hides a camera in your home steals your homework and beats you out of that college placement with your own material.
- codedokode 7y ago
  Why doesn't Microsoft allow to disable it then? It is not like I asked for a teacher.
  - wolco 7y ago
    Because that's the product they are selling you decided to use it over an os that comes with the source code like Linux. Microsoft hasn't added telemetry to linux through a backdoor.
- deroisas2y 7y ago
  And neither did Huawei.