5 ms·

None of the provided links as much as mentions Huawei or provides anything but uncertainty that there were any bugging devices found at the Nortel offices.

walrus01 7y ago
You would have to be familiar with the technical details of DWDM platform system architecture, photonics, etc in order to grok a full explanation. The Huawei product released was identical. It was identical down to the ASICs on the individual linecards and other things that would have been impossible to reverse engineer in a "Clean room" environment. I know I'm not providing a citation here, but among the community of ISPs and backbone carriers that actually have a need for this sort of equipment, it's a known fact as solidly as "water is wet". https://www.afr.com/technology/web/security/how-chinese-hacking-felled-telecommunication-giant-nortel-20140526-iux6a https://www.afr.com/technology/web/security/how-chinese-hack... https://business.financialpost.com/technology/nortel-hacked-to-pieces https://business.financialpost.com/technology/nortel-hacked-... https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/former-nortel-exec-warns-against-working-with-huawei-1.1137006 https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/former-nortel-exec-warns-ag...
- mises 7y ago
  Can confirm this from another source. Old guy I met waiting for a flight in Vegas; he was on his way back from CES. Had run his own ISP a while back for a special purpose. Talked about this, Huawei's refusal to remove a back-door ("remote assistance and diagnosis feature" or some such malarkey), etc. They're not nice guys.
  - codedokode 7y ago
    But Huawei is not different from other vendors here. For example: Windows has telemetry that cannot be disabled and sends data into American data centers, Apple has control over its phones around the world, can remotely block them and know their location, and who knows what else, Google tries to convince users from around the world to store all their data in an American cloud (not their own cloud, or a cloud in their country they can trust, but the cloud in US), and almost every Intel CPU has an additional CPU (ME engine) that has full control over the system, with encrypted firmware, and is not documented. Yet I don't see any accusations against Microsoft, Apple, Android or Intel.
    - katbyte 7y ago
      Maybe because I trust those organizations (and even the American government) more the China as much as I hate to admit it. I don’t think you can really compare the companies.
      - lagadu 7y ago
        Plenty of us would rather trust China than the US, mostly because China has less influence in our countries than the US does.
        mrkstu 7y ago
        I really don't get this POV. If it was just about a random Chinese company, sure, whatever, but Huawei though is 99% likely passing to the Chinese state, which is a geo-political entity that has more than a passing resemblance to some Hitler/Mao/Stalin hybrid that is fairly terrifying. It is rapidly scaling its military technology and reach, threatening neighbors over competing claims in the South China Sea, re-creating its own version of the Greater East Asia Co-Prosperity Sphere via the Belt and Road initiative and China 2025, interning its own citizens by the millions into re-education camps, forcing spying by its own citizens overseas by threatening family members, introducing a 'social credit' system to force not only self-censorship, but active promotion of its policies by its citizenry in order to not lose 'privileges' like taking the train. I understand that the Trumpian version of the US is annoying in many ways, but the idea that we let China and Chinese companies dominated by it's government (they literally have to pay Party minders to keep them in line) have unconstrained access to its geopolitical foes infrastructure beggars belief.
        ephemeralism 7y ago
        The US have been the instigator in quite a number of wars of aggression, with devastating consequences for the countries targeted and the people living in them. They constantly threaten to start new attacks. Meanwhile China builds roads and bridges and trains and cheap electronics. Is it really that hard to see why one is preferred over the other?
- codedokode 7y ago
  If it was patented, why didn't the company sue Huawei and ban import of the product?
  - riffraff 7y ago
    Why is this downvoted? Industrial spying is punished in the west.
    - wolco 7y ago
      Political forces you don't fully understand prevented it. A WTO case would have been easier.
      - lagadu 7y ago
        > Political forces you don't fully understand This is exactly as useful and trustworthy as saying "A wizard did it".
mabbo 7y ago
There were some stories where Huawei's source code included the Nortel copyright at the top. Just 100% blatant.
- fc373745 7y ago
  can i see the code?
- ghostpepper 7y ago
  Not doubting you but it would be great to link to one/several of those stories. A quick google search turns up a CBC article from 2012 where a former Nortel exec alleges Huawei hacking, and also, amusingly, this HN story.
  - pupdogg 7y ago
    It's fair to say that, in 2019, Huawei scale money can buy you online reputation...including removal of any documented instances that might hurt its image. After all, Google was their partner for a good amount of time.
    - riffraff 7y ago
      MSFT was a giant but was not able to hide the Halloween documents, I don't see why Huawei would succeed in that.
      - ethbro 7y ago
        You're talking about a company whose majority ownership is some sort of murky "employee coop without voting rights." The modern Chinese legal system isn't nearly as predicable as other jurisdictions.
        riffraff 7y ago
        well, but the chinese legal system is not the issue here, we're talking about silencing media reporting on a scandal of sorts, outside of china.

walrus01 7y ago

You would have to be familiar with the technical details of DWDM platform system architecture, photonics, etc in order to grok a full explanation. The Huawei product released was identical. It was identical down to the ASICs on the individual linecards and other things that would have been impossible to reverse engineer in a "Clean room" environment. I know I'm not providing a citation here, but among the community of ISPs and backbone carriers that actually have a need for this sort of equipment, it's a known fact as solidly as "water is wet". https://www.afr.com/technology/web/security/how-chinese-hacking-felled-telecommunication-giant-nortel-20140526-iux6a https://www.afr.com/technology/web/security/how-chinese-hack... https://business.financialpost.com/technology/nortel-hacked-to-pieces https://business.financialpost.com/technology/nortel-hacked-... https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/former-nortel-exec-warns-against-working-with-huawei-1.1137006 https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/former-nortel-exec-warns-ag...

mises 7y ago
Can confirm this from another source. Old guy I met waiting for a flight in Vegas; he was on his way back from CES. Had run his own ISP a while back for a special purpose. Talked about this, Huawei's refusal to remove a back-door ("remote assistance and diagnosis feature" or some such malarkey), etc. They're not nice guys.
- codedokode 7y ago
  But Huawei is not different from other vendors here. For example: Windows has telemetry that cannot be disabled and sends data into American data centers, Apple has control over its phones around the world, can remotely block them and know their location, and who knows what else, Google tries to convince users from around the world to store all their data in an American cloud (not their own cloud, or a cloud in their country they can trust, but the cloud in US), and almost every Intel CPU has an additional CPU (ME engine) that has full control over the system, with encrypted firmware, and is not documented. Yet I don't see any accusations against Microsoft, Apple, Android or Intel.
  - katbyte 7y ago
    Maybe because I trust those organizations (and even the American government) more the China as much as I hate to admit it. I don’t think you can really compare the companies.
    - lagadu 7y ago
      Plenty of us would rather trust China than the US, mostly because China has less influence in our countries than the US does.
      - mrkstu 7y ago
        I really don't get this POV. If it was just about a random Chinese company, sure, whatever, but Huawei though is 99% likely passing to the Chinese state, which is a geo-political entity that has more than a passing resemblance to some Hitler/Mao/Stalin hybrid that is fairly terrifying. It is rapidly scaling its military technology and reach, threatening neighbors over competing claims in the South China Sea, re-creating its own version of the Greater East Asia Co-Prosperity Sphere via the Belt and Road initiative and China 2025, interning its own citizens by the millions into re-education camps, forcing spying by its own citizens overseas by threatening family members, introducing a 'social credit' system to force not only self-censorship, but active promotion of its policies by its citizenry in order to not lose 'privileges' like taking the train. I understand that the Trumpian version of the US is annoying in many ways, but the idea that we let China and Chinese companies dominated by it's government (they literally have to pay Party minders to keep them in line) have unconstrained access to its geopolitical foes infrastructure beggars belief.
        ephemeralism 7y ago
        The US have been the instigator in quite a number of wars of aggression, with devastating consequences for the countries targeted and the people living in them. They constantly threaten to start new attacks. Meanwhile China builds roads and bridges and trains and cheap electronics. Is it really that hard to see why one is preferred over the other?
codedokode 7y ago
If it was patented, why didn't the company sue Huawei and ban import of the product?
- riffraff 7y ago
  Why is this downvoted? Industrial spying is punished in the west.
  - wolco 7y ago
    Political forces you don't fully understand prevented it. A WTO case would have been easier.
    - lagadu 7y ago
      > Political forces you don't fully understand This is exactly as useful and trustworthy as saying "A wizard did it".

mabbo 7y ago

There were some stories where Huawei's source code included the Nortel copyright at the top. Just 100% blatant.

fc373745 7y ago
can i see the code?
ghostpepper 7y ago
Not doubting you but it would be great to link to one/several of those stories. A quick google search turns up a CBC article from 2012 where a former Nortel exec alleges Huawei hacking, and also, amusingly, this HN story.
- pupdogg 7y ago
  It's fair to say that, in 2019, Huawei scale money can buy you online reputation...including removal of any documented instances that might hurt its image. After all, Google was their partner for a good amount of time.
  - riffraff 7y ago
    MSFT was a giant but was not able to hide the Halloween documents, I don't see why Huawei would succeed in that.
    - ethbro 7y ago
      You're talking about a company whose majority ownership is some sort of murky "employee coop without voting rights." The modern Chinese legal system isn't nearly as predicable as other jurisdictions.
      - riffraff 7y ago
        well, but the chinese legal system is not the issue here, we're talking about silencing media reporting on a scandal of sorts, outside of china.