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I'm 48, on the West Coast, and recently finished interviewing, receiving multiple offers. I did 250 Leetcode problems, practiced System Design, and Behavioral.

I'm 48, on the West Coast, and recently finished interviewing, receiving multiple offers. I did 250 Leetcode problems, practiced System Design, and Behavioral. In the end, I found doing 250 Leetcode was probably overkill, but it definitely helped. This will probably get me severely down-voted, and I do understand the antipathy toward having to Leetcode, but the way I see it is that I'm really lucky. I get to sit on my butt, do what I love, and I get paid really well to do it. If interviewing is extremely hard and I have to study, yet again, at 48 so be it. There are plenty of people in the world who are so less fortunate than I am. [Edit] s/250 Leetcode/250 Leetcode problems/

b3b0p 7y ago
I'm not 48, I'm younger, but in my 30's. I only started the LeetCode study grind about a year or so go, but not consistently. I just got back from my onsite at a Big-N and pretty much bombed it. I gut nervous and forgot the easiest of questions. I lost my confidence. My mind went blank, my hands, nerves shaking. Couldn't write complete code or even sentences I think at times. It was bad. I was intimidated for no reason. I am having very difficult time getting the offers (duh, when performing like this). Did you always get to receiving offers? I seem to always get the, we decided to go with another candidate... line after my onsite. I've only had 2 company's fly me out so far and the only companies that I have gotten offers at don't do LeetCode. It's extremely frustrating or maybe I'm just not prepared well enough yet and need to be more consistent with my study and practice (and don't pay as much either) or maybe I'm just not smart enough. I feel stuck. Will it ever end or am I stuck grinding for the rest of my career (life)? Will I ever be able just breathe and relax again? I'm not on the West coast, but interviewing on the West Coast. I'll rent out my condo or keep it around as a home away from home if I ever get an opportunity.
- mykowebhn 7y ago
  I feel for you. If you'd like we can chat offline. You can reach me at mycoweb2000-comm at yahoo dot com.
- aiisjustanif 7y ago
  > I gut nervous and forgot the easiest of questions. I lost my confidence. My mind went blank, my hands, nerves shaking. Couldn't write complete code or even sentences I think at times. It was bad. I was intimidated for no reason. This happens to me too. > Will it ever end or am I stuck grinding for the rest of my career (life)? Will I ever be able just breathe and relax again? I'm not on the West coast, but interviewing on the West Coast. I'll rent out my condo or keep it around as a home away from home if I ever get an opportunity. Dude just try for companies on the west coast. Why is this the end all be all? Atlanta, Chicago, Dallas, Austin, Houston, Charlotte, Raleigh, Colorado Springs. . . So many cities with low CoL and six figure salaries for Developers, Security Engineers, Linux Admins, Infrastructure Engineers. You even have Denver, DC, NYC, Charlotte, Arlington, Seattle, Tampa, Minneapolis, so many options. Stop limiting yourself San Francisco when there are so many great cities, with awesome opportunities.
  - b3b0p 7y ago
    I'm currently in Minneapolis, downtown proper. I even own a condo in the middle of downtown. I don't even need a car and buses galore and multiple trains as well as a skyway for bad weather all within a block or less. I have Target, Whole Foods, Trader Joe's and Mall of America at my access. Oh, I'm also making 6 figures already. That said, doubling my salary a Big-N for a few years and getting experience at a larger tech company is what I'm mostly chasing at the moment. I want the experience, I want to see what it's like for myself. I can just rent out the condo I have now easily, pack a bag of clothes and go.
    - deleted 7y ago
      [deleted]
    - aiisjustanif 7y ago
      I'm glad you have at the very least seen live is good outside of Big-N.
scarface74 7y ago
If leetCode is what you have to do to compete in your market so be it. In the grand scheme of things, it would be hypocritical for me to criticize someone for spending hours upon hours on leetCode considering the amount of time I’ve spent on books about architecture, spent a year learning the ends and out of AWS, and the time I spent networking. Not to mention the fact that I will spend the next two year learning front end frameworks and Docker ecosystem. I’m 45
- mykowebhn 7y ago
  I bet you have fun learning, right? I actually find doing algorithms problems fun. If I didn't find them fun I don't think I would've done 250. I'm also spending a lot of time reading architecture books and learning AWS. React is probably next on my list. That said, it sounds like you and I are both "cultivating" and "tending to" our profession. I think that's what it takes to stay competitive and have longevity imo.
  - scarface74 7y ago
    I started out as a typical 12 year old computer geek. But, by the time I turned 35, I became much more cynical. Computers became a way to put food on my table. I don’t “have fun” with technology. I don’t hate my career by any means, but, I do what’s necessary to stay buzzword compliant. I got into vicious codependent cycle with my job by the time I was 35. I didn’t know enough to be competitive and leave, I was bitter about my pay and they just kept me around because I knew where the bodies were buried. Since then, it’s all about optionality. If I go more than a month not enjoying my environment it’s time to leave.
    - fma 7y ago
      I'm in the same boat as you were, I think. I like my company, but as the lead dev of a team in a big company I make a lot of technical decisions/reviews/collaborations... but others implement because I'm spending most of my time talking to the business, support, planning...etc. Not as much hands on. Considering swinging the pendulum the other way to hands on technical again and let others do the BS work. Do you know anything about the north Atlanta market? Companies, salary range, culture? Or maybe ones to avoid...Thanks!
brandall10 7y ago
Love your attitude. I'm of the opinion that grinding through leetcode/hacker rank type exercises does improve your coding skills so I have no issue brushing up every time I'm on the market. To that end, I'm 43 and last on the market a few months back, accepted an offer within a week of looking, had 3 pending final/onsites (including Amazon Seattle) and at least another half dozen in earlier stages that I shut down. I do nothing to hide my age on my resume. Since turning 40 I've been on the market 3 times now, each time interviewing w/ 10-20 companies, and only once did I get the sense that agism was at play.
- pmiller2 7y ago
  Oh, I agree that Leetcode can improve certain coding skills. But, are they the ones that matter for doing most software engineering jobs? The ability to write down algorithms on a whiteboard from memory alone is not a skill I’ve ever seen anyone use at any workplace outside of an interview room.
  - brandall10 7y ago
    They absolutely do IMO, in 2 ways - Whenever I need to hop into a code share w/ a co-worker (I'm remote FWIW) the ability to quickly suss out an idea has greatly improved from having a decent aptitude with those types of exercises. - Any non-trivial PR usually has at least a few portions that could be extricated to challenges like these. Being able to slice through issues like these in 15-30 minutes vs. say hours helps w/ my cadence. It lets me focus on the issues that are unique to the business. The 30 minute pairing challenge we give during our interview (which I took myself) was something that was pulled and simplified from our source. I ended up having to implement something very similar just weeks after I started. Of course being good are things like this isn't necessary to being an effective sr. developer, nor is it sufficient (even for an entry-level). But I do very much see it as a skill that is helpful and worth getting good at.
    - pmiller2 7y ago
      I am very skeptical. Can you give a more specific example?
wellpast 7y ago
I love this. I think evaluating/interviewing is hard, should be much more about experience and past projects but so what if the industry has got it wrong, so what you have to study a little to get the job? The world is what it is. I think criticizing this from a ‘we could do better as an industry’ perspective is productive but from a personal perspective — today — what is going to get you hired is playing the game as it is.
- uoaei 7y ago
  "I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the software engineer's great stumbling block in his stride toward hiring fairness is not the Genius Asshole or the Bullshitter Who Can't Code, but the anonymous internet commenter, who is more devoted to 'pragmatism' than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of reform to a positive peace which is the presence of fairness..."
  - wellpast 7y ago
    Nobody is striving toward ‘hiring fairness’ ... don’t believe any person who says that’s what they are after. Better outcomes, better industry productivity, sure. But ‘hiring fairness’?
    - Youcandothis 7y ago
      Hiring fairness sounds to me like the same as hiring for better outcomes and industry productivity.
      - pmiller2 7y ago
        I agree. Fairness in the sense of “equal ability to do the job results in the same outcome” would, indeed, get us there. The problem is that interviews don’t actually represent ability to do the job, not in this industry, at least.
        wellpast 7y ago
o10449366 7y ago
New graduates are even more out of touch. In what other industry can you graduate with a bachelors (or have no degree at all) and obtain a six figure job in return for a few weeks of studying?
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
b212 7y ago
What do you mean by "I did 250 Leetcode"? You solved 250 problems there?
- mykowebhn 7y ago
  Yes, I'll update my original comment to clarify.
  - aiisjustanif 7y ago
    Geez, that's insane to me. Very exhausting, and probably idk 140 - 180 hours?
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
ihuman 7y ago
I know what tthe leetcode website is, but what is 250 leetcode?
bonestamp2 7y ago
Assuming your profile is anonymous, can you tell us what industry you're in and what your offers were paying? Just trying to get a comparison for what myself (and others) can expect.
- mykowebhn 7y ago
  I've been in several different industries, but what I do in particular is backend software engineering. I don't feel comfortable saying here, but the Blind app is an excellent resource for finding what total compensation (TC) you can expect for different companies and years of experience (YOE).
deleted 7y ago
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deleted 7y ago
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PopeDotNinja 7y ago
How did you practice System Design questions?
- mykowebhn 7y ago
  Based on your profile it looks like you have a lot of experience, so I would first rely on your experience. That said, there are plenty of resources that have been helpful to me: 1) http://highscalability.com/ http://highscalability.com/ 2) http://shop.oreilly.com/product/0636920032175.do http://shop.oreilly.com/product/0636920032175.do 3) https://github.com/donnemartin/system-design-primer https://github.com/donnemartin/system-design-primer Hope this helps!
  - sundvor 7y ago
    Thanks, you've provided some great insights here - and appreciated those links. Will buy that O'Reilly book! Mid 40s myself, stayed in one tech stack for too long but have been redeeming myself in the past few years with .net core, AWS, Docker and trying to get into React. I find myself struggling most with the front end bits, but it's just a question of staying with it. Have always loved tech, and highly passionate about it. Having a family with a kid on the ASD has really restricted available hours to tinker though, that's my main challenge. Anyway I found what you and others here wrote quite motivational, so thanks again.
    - mykowebhn 7y ago
      My pleasure! One thing that I'd like to mention that I didn't before is that the interview process can be taxing, draining, and it can be an emotional roller-coaster. Try to stay positive and keep at it. Good things will come!
      - sundvor 7y ago
        Cheers. I'm a FTE presently, but have always got to look forward so whilst no immediate pressure I've learned that there's really no resting on one's laurels. And yes can confirm that when I had to go through the process, and was less prepared, it was certainly very draining. So spending time learning/staying on top of things in peace time will certainly help during "war". :) Staying physically healthy, lifting weights etc is another thing that hasn't been raised so far, so would just like to put that in. Can always adjust perception through that, and also it is something we truly need to be doing now that we're getting older. It also helps for mental health.
wwweston 7y ago
I really like studying. Like, my list of things to learn more about in CS/software engineering/Math alone is probably longer than I'm going to get to before retirement... which, if I'm lucky, will consist in no small part of studying things and working on personal projects. I don't understand people who say they don't want to be immortal, they'd get bored. I can sortof imagine my psyche eventually crushing itself under the weight of its own history but... boredom? Nope. Too much interesting stuff to learn/try, even at the scale of challenge available to us now. So, trust me when I say I don't object in the slightest to being asked to study and learn things. LeetCode-style problems look like one form of recreation to me. And yet, I still think this comment is shortsighted because: * I'd guess a lot of what's on LeetCode isn't exactly untrodden territory for any developer that got their start before 1995. * Distinguishing oneself can work in the individual case, but it generalizes poorly. Imagine employers and would-be job-seekers alike internalize LeetCode knowledge as a standard distinguishing mark. Like college degrees, distinguishing points often over time become standard expectations. The likely outcome is that about as many devs in their 20s & 30s can brandish the same "distinction" that devs 40+ can and the incentives to prefer youth perform about the same. Individual efforts to improve ones lot are a good place to start, but they rarely solve systemic problems.
- scarface74 7y ago
  I can guarantee you that someone knowing leetCode and algorithms would be absolutely useless where I work. Most developers are doing CRUD apps or at most apps where the complexity is in the business rules and process.
  - mykowebhn 7y ago
    This is curious to me, and it's not just in your comment that I've seen this. But why is there this assumption that if someone studies Leetcode and algorithms then it means that they can't do anything else? Why is there this all or nothing mentality? If someone studies Leetcode and algorithms, wouldn't one assume they know other things as well in the software engineering realm? I have plenty of friends in the Bay Area who are thriving at FAANG who studied algorithms and Leetcode intensely.
seanmcdirmid 7y ago
The leetcode angle at least makes interviews much more predictable and easier to prep for. The Google-style interview is well studied and documented by this point, like an SAT with an answer key you can study beforehand.

b3b0p 7y ago

I'm not 48, I'm younger, but in my 30's. I only started the LeetCode study grind about a year or so go, but not consistently. I just got back from my onsite at a Big-N and pretty much bombed it. I gut nervous and forgot the easiest of questions. I lost my confidence. My mind went blank, my hands, nerves shaking. Couldn't write complete code or even sentences I think at times. It was bad. I was intimidated for no reason. I am having very difficult time getting the offers (duh, when performing like this). Did you always get to receiving offers? I seem to always get the, we decided to go with another candidate... line after my onsite. I've only had 2 company's fly me out so far and the only companies that I have gotten offers at don't do LeetCode. It's extremely frustrating or maybe I'm just not prepared well enough yet and need to be more consistent with my study and practice (and don't pay as much either) or maybe I'm just not smart enough. I feel stuck. Will it ever end or am I stuck grinding for the rest of my career (life)? Will I ever be able just breathe and relax again? I'm not on the West coast, but interviewing on the West Coast. I'll rent out my condo or keep it around as a home away from home if I ever get an opportunity.

mykowebhn 7y ago
I feel for you. If you'd like we can chat offline. You can reach me at mycoweb2000-comm at yahoo dot com.
aiisjustanif 7y ago
> I gut nervous and forgot the easiest of questions. I lost my confidence. My mind went blank, my hands, nerves shaking. Couldn't write complete code or even sentences I think at times. It was bad. I was intimidated for no reason. This happens to me too. > Will it ever end or am I stuck grinding for the rest of my career (life)? Will I ever be able just breathe and relax again? I'm not on the West coast, but interviewing on the West Coast. I'll rent out my condo or keep it around as a home away from home if I ever get an opportunity. Dude just try for companies on the west coast. Why is this the end all be all? Atlanta, Chicago, Dallas, Austin, Houston, Charlotte, Raleigh, Colorado Springs. . . So many cities with low CoL and six figure salaries for Developers, Security Engineers, Linux Admins, Infrastructure Engineers. You even have Denver, DC, NYC, Charlotte, Arlington, Seattle, Tampa, Minneapolis, so many options. Stop limiting yourself San Francisco when there are so many great cities, with awesome opportunities.
- b3b0p 7y ago
  I'm currently in Minneapolis, downtown proper. I even own a condo in the middle of downtown. I don't even need a car and buses galore and multiple trains as well as a skyway for bad weather all within a block or less. I have Target, Whole Foods, Trader Joe's and Mall of America at my access. Oh, I'm also making 6 figures already. That said, doubling my salary a Big-N for a few years and getting experience at a larger tech company is what I'm mostly chasing at the moment. I want the experience, I want to see what it's like for myself. I can just rent out the condo I have now easily, pack a bag of clothes and go.
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
  - aiisjustanif 7y ago
    I'm glad you have at the very least seen live is good outside of Big-N.

scarface74 7y ago

If leetCode is what you have to do to compete in your market so be it. In the grand scheme of things, it would be hypocritical for me to criticize someone for spending hours upon hours on leetCode considering the amount of time I’ve spent on books about architecture, spent a year learning the ends and out of AWS, and the time I spent networking. Not to mention the fact that I will spend the next two year learning front end frameworks and Docker ecosystem. I’m 45

mykowebhn 7y ago
I bet you have fun learning, right? I actually find doing algorithms problems fun. If I didn't find them fun I don't think I would've done 250. I'm also spending a lot of time reading architecture books and learning AWS. React is probably next on my list. That said, it sounds like you and I are both "cultivating" and "tending to" our profession. I think that's what it takes to stay competitive and have longevity imo.
- scarface74 7y ago
  I started out as a typical 12 year old computer geek. But, by the time I turned 35, I became much more cynical. Computers became a way to put food on my table. I don’t “have fun” with technology. I don’t hate my career by any means, but, I do what’s necessary to stay buzzword compliant. I got into vicious codependent cycle with my job by the time I was 35. I didn’t know enough to be competitive and leave, I was bitter about my pay and they just kept me around because I knew where the bodies were buried. Since then, it’s all about optionality. If I go more than a month not enjoying my environment it’s time to leave.
  - fma 7y ago
    I'm in the same boat as you were, I think. I like my company, but as the lead dev of a team in a big company I make a lot of technical decisions/reviews/collaborations... but others implement because I'm spending most of my time talking to the business, support, planning...etc. Not as much hands on. Considering swinging the pendulum the other way to hands on technical again and let others do the BS work. Do you know anything about the north Atlanta market? Companies, salary range, culture? Or maybe ones to avoid...Thanks!

brandall10 7y ago

Love your attitude. I'm of the opinion that grinding through leetcode/hacker rank type exercises does improve your coding skills so I have no issue brushing up every time I'm on the market. To that end, I'm 43 and last on the market a few months back, accepted an offer within a week of looking, had 3 pending final/onsites (including Amazon Seattle) and at least another half dozen in earlier stages that I shut down. I do nothing to hide my age on my resume. Since turning 40 I've been on the market 3 times now, each time interviewing w/ 10-20 companies, and only once did I get the sense that agism was at play.

pmiller2 7y ago
Oh, I agree that Leetcode can improve certain coding skills. But, are they the ones that matter for doing most software engineering jobs? The ability to write down algorithms on a whiteboard from memory alone is not a skill I’ve ever seen anyone use at any workplace outside of an interview room.
- brandall10 7y ago
  They absolutely do IMO, in 2 ways - Whenever I need to hop into a code share w/ a co-worker (I'm remote FWIW) the ability to quickly suss out an idea has greatly improved from having a decent aptitude with those types of exercises. - Any non-trivial PR usually has at least a few portions that could be extricated to challenges like these. Being able to slice through issues like these in 15-30 minutes vs. say hours helps w/ my cadence. It lets me focus on the issues that are unique to the business. The 30 minute pairing challenge we give during our interview (which I took myself) was something that was pulled and simplified from our source. I ended up having to implement something very similar just weeks after I started. Of course being good are things like this isn't necessary to being an effective sr. developer, nor is it sufficient (even for an entry-level). But I do very much see it as a skill that is helpful and worth getting good at.
  - pmiller2 7y ago
    I am very skeptical. Can you give a more specific example?

wellpast 7y ago

I love this. I think evaluating/interviewing is hard, should be much more about experience and past projects but so what if the industry has got it wrong, so what you have to study a little to get the job? The world is what it is. I think criticizing this from a ‘we could do better as an industry’ perspective is productive but from a personal perspective — today — what is going to get you hired is playing the game as it is.

uoaei 7y ago
"I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the software engineer's great stumbling block in his stride toward hiring fairness is not the Genius Asshole or the Bullshitter Who Can't Code, but the anonymous internet commenter, who is more devoted to 'pragmatism' than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of reform to a positive peace which is the presence of fairness..."
- wellpast 7y ago
  Nobody is striving toward ‘hiring fairness’ ... don’t believe any person who says that’s what they are after. Better outcomes, better industry productivity, sure. But ‘hiring fairness’?
  - Youcandothis 7y ago
    Hiring fairness sounds to me like the same as hiring for better outcomes and industry productivity.
    - pmiller2 7y ago
      I agree. Fairness in the sense of “equal ability to do the job results in the same outcome” would, indeed, get us there. The problem is that interviews don’t actually represent ability to do the job, not in this industry, at least.
      - wellpast 7y ago

o10449366 7y ago

New graduates are even more out of touch. In what other industry can you graduate with a bachelors (or have no degree at all) and obtain a six figure job in return for a few weeks of studying?

deleted 7y ago
[deleted]

b212 7y ago

What do you mean by "I did 250 Leetcode"? You solved 250 problems there?

mykowebhn 7y ago
Yes, I'll update my original comment to clarify.
- aiisjustanif 7y ago
  Geez, that's insane to me. Very exhausting, and probably idk 140 - 180 hours?

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

ihuman 7y ago

I know what tthe leetcode website is, but what is 250 leetcode?

bonestamp2 7y ago

Assuming your profile is anonymous, can you tell us what industry you're in and what your offers were paying? Just trying to get a comparison for what myself (and others) can expect.

mykowebhn 7y ago
I've been in several different industries, but what I do in particular is backend software engineering. I don't feel comfortable saying here, but the Blind app is an excellent resource for finding what total compensation (TC) you can expect for different companies and years of experience (YOE).

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

PopeDotNinja 7y ago

How did you practice System Design questions?

mykowebhn 7y ago
Based on your profile it looks like you have a lot of experience, so I would first rely on your experience. That said, there are plenty of resources that have been helpful to me: 1) http://highscalability.com/ http://highscalability.com/ 2) http://shop.oreilly.com/product/0636920032175.do http://shop.oreilly.com/product/0636920032175.do 3) https://github.com/donnemartin/system-design-primer https://github.com/donnemartin/system-design-primer Hope this helps!
- sundvor 7y ago
  Thanks, you've provided some great insights here - and appreciated those links. Will buy that O'Reilly book! Mid 40s myself, stayed in one tech stack for too long but have been redeeming myself in the past few years with .net core, AWS, Docker and trying to get into React. I find myself struggling most with the front end bits, but it's just a question of staying with it. Have always loved tech, and highly passionate about it. Having a family with a kid on the ASD has really restricted available hours to tinker though, that's my main challenge. Anyway I found what you and others here wrote quite motivational, so thanks again.
  - mykowebhn 7y ago
    My pleasure! One thing that I'd like to mention that I didn't before is that the interview process can be taxing, draining, and it can be an emotional roller-coaster. Try to stay positive and keep at it. Good things will come!
    - sundvor 7y ago
      Cheers. I'm a FTE presently, but have always got to look forward so whilst no immediate pressure I've learned that there's really no resting on one's laurels. And yes can confirm that when I had to go through the process, and was less prepared, it was certainly very draining. So spending time learning/staying on top of things in peace time will certainly help during "war". :) Staying physically healthy, lifting weights etc is another thing that hasn't been raised so far, so would just like to put that in. Can always adjust perception through that, and also it is something we truly need to be doing now that we're getting older. It also helps for mental health.

wwweston 7y ago

I really like studying. Like, my list of things to learn more about in CS/software engineering/Math alone is probably longer than I'm going to get to before retirement... which, if I'm lucky, will consist in no small part of studying things and working on personal projects. I don't understand people who say they don't want to be immortal, they'd get bored. I can sortof imagine my psyche eventually crushing itself under the weight of its own history but... boredom? Nope. Too much interesting stuff to learn/try, even at the scale of challenge available to us now. So, trust me when I say I don't object in the slightest to being asked to study and learn things. LeetCode-style problems look like one form of recreation to me. And yet, I still think this comment is shortsighted because: * I'd guess a lot of what's on LeetCode isn't exactly untrodden territory for any developer that got their start before 1995. * Distinguishing oneself can work in the individual case, but it generalizes poorly. Imagine employers and would-be job-seekers alike internalize LeetCode knowledge as a standard distinguishing mark. Like college degrees, distinguishing points often over time become standard expectations. The likely outcome is that about as many devs in their 20s & 30s can brandish the same "distinction" that devs 40+ can and the incentives to prefer youth perform about the same. Individual efforts to improve ones lot are a good place to start, but they rarely solve systemic problems.

scarface74 7y ago
I can guarantee you that someone knowing leetCode and algorithms would be absolutely useless where I work. Most developers are doing CRUD apps or at most apps where the complexity is in the business rules and process.
- mykowebhn 7y ago
  This is curious to me, and it's not just in your comment that I've seen this. But why is there this assumption that if someone studies Leetcode and algorithms then it means that they can't do anything else? Why is there this all or nothing mentality? If someone studies Leetcode and algorithms, wouldn't one assume they know other things as well in the software engineering realm? I have plenty of friends in the Bay Area who are thriving at FAANG who studied algorithms and Leetcode intensely.

seanmcdirmid 7y ago

The leetcode angle at least makes interviews much more predictable and easier to prep for. The Google-style interview is well studied and documented by this point, like an SAT with an answer key you can study beforehand.