3 ms·

I don't work at Valve. You're missing my point. I didn't say we don't need artists. I'm saying you shouldn't have artists taking leading roles in the fields th

I don't work at Valve. You're missing my point. I didn't say we don't need artists. I'm saying you shouldn't have artists taking leading roles in the fields that aren't artistic. Perhaps you're doing a bit too much goalposting to make your argument? Ignoring all the groundbreaking titles (in any company). The other groundbreaking title that was released by Valve was of course Steam. The first app store. What makes Valve so great is that they're exactly not doing the same old thing they were doing. They reinvent and innovate. That's what makes it a great company. One of the best imho. Do you hear any complaints coming from Valve? Seems to me they're happy with the direction they chose. They don't have a problem.

yoshibb 7y ago
Hahaha. I love it. No complaints from the legacy engineers who are collecting million dollar salaries doing nothing, blowing smoke up gabes ass with vaporware. Out of the 100million American pc gamers--during peak western hours--less than a 1/4 are on steam. Everyone else on the inside and outside who don't want to see the company sold to activision-disney is a bit concerned. The goalpost will move, and it will continue to move as we continue to examine how bad the bed has been shit post orangebox. Millions upon millions of dollars spent over decades, with almost nothing to show. With any recent innovations coming from asset flips and indie teams.
- bartimus 7y ago
  I still fail to see the problem. I understand your complaint. But Valve is doing fantastic. It's not their mission to bring out new titles. A company is not a democracy where we get "to vote" what direction they should take. If it's not what you like then don't work for them or buy their products.
  - yoshibb 7y ago
    I find it hard to believe that they got into the industry to play stock market for games, haha. I am wondering if Beth is planning on their own platform next, Microsoft is definitely making those moves . . . I think the new meta is a cycling people around content releases, hopefully within your ecosystem, but np if not, because they will cycle back for the next updates. It's the wild wild west again, baby.
    - yoshibb 7y ago
      I suppose what Valve needs is creative directors, and engineers willing to work with creative directors on gameplay and even if it isn't their pitch. This seems to be the most successful pairing with this batch of stunning games coming out next gen.
      - bartimus 7y ago
        They have artistic people working at Valve: https://www.valvesoftware.com/en/people https://www.valvesoftware.com/en/people But it's an agile company. It means it's "Boss-free since 1996". It works as follows: The creative director has a cool idea for a game. He makes the designs, storyboards and whatever. Then he needs to find developers who are willing to work on his idea. In an agile company it can very well happen nobody wants to work on your idea. You might get a response like: "Cool idea! You should go ahead and build it!" This in contrast to a top-down management company where bosses exist that tell you what it is you must work on. It's where people become "resources". So what you're proposing can only happen through a top-down management approach where the boss/project-manager assembles the team and tells everybody what to work on. You take away the essence of the company culture at Valve. What you fail to see is that it's actually been the right choice NOT to release new games but - in stead - work on Steam (and facilitating other game shops release their games). If creative directors would be ruling Valve that would most likely have never happened. Meaning Valve wouldn't have achieved $4.3B revenue. You need to put Steam between your goalposts.
        yoshibb 7y ago
        I see a bunch of visual people, no creative directors - and the best indicator would be a current catalog of intriguing content. The source guys wont work with anyone outside their clique. They are toxic. Studies have shown, despite skill, toxic employees bring the entire company down. Maybe it's time to return to top down, some accountability is needed. Steam ran the industry into the ground, ten years of stagnation where indie studios had to pick up the slack with asset flips and low budget shitters. Console sales are at an all time high. This is nothing to applaud. I would say they put in no effort, but they automated profits, so that's kind of something, but not the reason any of us got into the bizz. Finally we are just now starting to see some innovation coming 2020, and would ya look at, everyone had creative directors. Valve doesn't serve the people anymore, and seeing all their devs and fanboys fanboy on the forums like "if you don't like it, leave" cracks me up. Less than a 1/4 US PC gamers are on steam during peak hours, why would they be? People are now accustomed to being served by companies in the business to serve, being the Wallmart of the gaming industry is nothing to be proud of, and isn't even a position Valve can hold with WePlay, Epic, Blizz, and Microsoft in the arena. Baby, I am a freelancer with three creative degrees, I just work better with distractions - I actually made some games you probably play a hellevua lot better. You've probably enjoyed some music/media I've had my hot little hands on, too. Ty tho
- ryacko 7y ago
  I suspect Valve is suffering from artistic perfectionism, which means they will never release any of their products, much like how GRRM is repeatedly rewriting his novels.
  - yoshibb 7y ago
    Eh, with the scale of GoT, GRRM has to go slow. There are 150 main characters in GoT, but 2000 in all the books mentioned. You can't rush a story of this scale, just look what happened when HBO tried, and they were only using a fraction of the actual story. The entire cast/story of HL could fit within the first couple chapters of GoT, but that's the point of GoT. GRRM wanted to make something on a crazy scale, so it's hard to compare his progress with the source guys' inability to ship games. After sampling e3, the future is looking pretty bright. I am starting to see why everyone is holding out on vr. We haven't even scratched the surface in fidelity. Fidelity = presence. Cyberpunk2077, Doom Eternal, Elden Rings, and Halo Infinite all look incredible.
    - ryacko 7y ago
      https://grrm.livejournal.com/465247.html https://grrm.livejournal.com/465247.html >Chapters still to write, of course... but also rewriting. I always do a lot of rewriting, sometimes just polishing, sometimes pretty major restructures. You can compare various games, but even with low quality graphics, Half Life has a visceral presentation that simply beats the others.
      - yoshibb 7y ago
        Writing is re-writing, nobody was arguing against that. It's pretty common to go through twelve or more drafts, with the exception of King, whose wild ass gets it done in two drafts. It's the scale of GoT that's remarkable, and the reason it's taking so long. It's not just some stupid epic wizard quest - it's 150 character weaving into eachother, and it's well done. Since Source was released, GRRM actually released like 16 books, three of those were GoT, and he also did a bunch of TV stuff. And now a game, too. Nobody was arguing that half-life wasn't cool, I was arguing that the source guys can't ship games. They acquired everything post orangebox.

yoshibb 7y ago

Hahaha. I love it. No complaints from the legacy engineers who are collecting million dollar salaries doing nothing, blowing smoke up gabes ass with vaporware. Out of the 100million American pc gamers--during peak western hours--less than a 1/4 are on steam. Everyone else on the inside and outside who don't want to see the company sold to activision-disney is a bit concerned. The goalpost will move, and it will continue to move as we continue to examine how bad the bed has been shit post orangebox. Millions upon millions of dollars spent over decades, with almost nothing to show. With any recent innovations coming from asset flips and indie teams.

bartimus 7y ago
I still fail to see the problem. I understand your complaint. But Valve is doing fantastic. It's not their mission to bring out new titles. A company is not a democracy where we get "to vote" what direction they should take. If it's not what you like then don't work for them or buy their products.
- yoshibb 7y ago
  I find it hard to believe that they got into the industry to play stock market for games, haha. I am wondering if Beth is planning on their own platform next, Microsoft is definitely making those moves . . . I think the new meta is a cycling people around content releases, hopefully within your ecosystem, but np if not, because they will cycle back for the next updates. It's the wild wild west again, baby.
  - yoshibb 7y ago
    I suppose what Valve needs is creative directors, and engineers willing to work with creative directors on gameplay and even if it isn't their pitch. This seems to be the most successful pairing with this batch of stunning games coming out next gen.
    - bartimus 7y ago
      They have artistic people working at Valve: https://www.valvesoftware.com/en/people https://www.valvesoftware.com/en/people But it's an agile company. It means it's "Boss-free since 1996". It works as follows: The creative director has a cool idea for a game. He makes the designs, storyboards and whatever. Then he needs to find developers who are willing to work on his idea. In an agile company it can very well happen nobody wants to work on your idea. You might get a response like: "Cool idea! You should go ahead and build it!" This in contrast to a top-down management company where bosses exist that tell you what it is you must work on. It's where people become "resources". So what you're proposing can only happen through a top-down management approach where the boss/project-manager assembles the team and tells everybody what to work on. You take away the essence of the company culture at Valve. What you fail to see is that it's actually been the right choice NOT to release new games but - in stead - work on Steam (and facilitating other game shops release their games). If creative directors would be ruling Valve that would most likely have never happened. Meaning Valve wouldn't have achieved $4.3B revenue. You need to put Steam between your goalposts.
      - yoshibb 7y ago
        I see a bunch of visual people, no creative directors - and the best indicator would be a current catalog of intriguing content. The source guys wont work with anyone outside their clique. They are toxic. Studies have shown, despite skill, toxic employees bring the entire company down. Maybe it's time to return to top down, some accountability is needed. Steam ran the industry into the ground, ten years of stagnation where indie studios had to pick up the slack with asset flips and low budget shitters. Console sales are at an all time high. This is nothing to applaud. I would say they put in no effort, but they automated profits, so that's kind of something, but not the reason any of us got into the bizz. Finally we are just now starting to see some innovation coming 2020, and would ya look at, everyone had creative directors. Valve doesn't serve the people anymore, and seeing all their devs and fanboys fanboy on the forums like "if you don't like it, leave" cracks me up. Less than a 1/4 US PC gamers are on steam during peak hours, why would they be? People are now accustomed to being served by companies in the business to serve, being the Wallmart of the gaming industry is nothing to be proud of, and isn't even a position Valve can hold with WePlay, Epic, Blizz, and Microsoft in the arena. Baby, I am a freelancer with three creative degrees, I just work better with distractions - I actually made some games you probably play a hellevua lot better. You've probably enjoyed some music/media I've had my hot little hands on, too. Ty tho
ryacko 7y ago
I suspect Valve is suffering from artistic perfectionism, which means they will never release any of their products, much like how GRRM is repeatedly rewriting his novels.
- yoshibb 7y ago
  Eh, with the scale of GoT, GRRM has to go slow. There are 150 main characters in GoT, but 2000 in all the books mentioned. You can't rush a story of this scale, just look what happened when HBO tried, and they were only using a fraction of the actual story. The entire cast/story of HL could fit within the first couple chapters of GoT, but that's the point of GoT. GRRM wanted to make something on a crazy scale, so it's hard to compare his progress with the source guys' inability to ship games. After sampling e3, the future is looking pretty bright. I am starting to see why everyone is holding out on vr. We haven't even scratched the surface in fidelity. Fidelity = presence. Cyberpunk2077, Doom Eternal, Elden Rings, and Halo Infinite all look incredible.
  - ryacko 7y ago
    https://grrm.livejournal.com/465247.html https://grrm.livejournal.com/465247.html >Chapters still to write, of course... but also rewriting. I always do a lot of rewriting, sometimes just polishing, sometimes pretty major restructures. You can compare various games, but even with low quality graphics, Half Life has a visceral presentation that simply beats the others.
    - yoshibb 7y ago
      Writing is re-writing, nobody was arguing against that. It's pretty common to go through twelve or more drafts, with the exception of King, whose wild ass gets it done in two drafts. It's the scale of GoT that's remarkable, and the reason it's taking so long. It's not just some stupid epic wizard quest - it's 150 character weaving into eachother, and it's well done. Since Source was released, GRRM actually released like 16 books, three of those were GoT, and he also did a bunch of TV stuff. And now a game, too. Nobody was arguing that half-life wasn't cool, I was arguing that the source guys can't ship games. They acquired everything post orangebox.