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Is this going to freeze everyone at Python 3.7 in the same way that CPython had been stuck on C89 basically forever because Microsoft refuses to fully support C

Is this going to freeze everyone at Python 3.7 in the same way that CPython had been stuck on C89 basically forever because Microsoft refuses to fully support C99: https://www.mail-archive.com/python-dev@python.org/msg92514.html https://www.mail-archive.com/python-dev@python.org/msg92514....

kevin_b_er 7y ago
Microsoft declared back in 2011 that Microsoft will never support the now 20 year old C standard. The MSVC compiler should be considered deprecated and removed in favor of something like llvm with MSVC system headers like Chrome does. The actual compiler isn't really a C Compiler anymore. http://www.drdobbs.com/cpp/interview-with-herb-sutter/231900562 http://www.drdobbs.com/cpp/interview-with-herb-sutter/231900...
ChrisSD 7y ago
No. This feature is essentially just a link to the Microsoft Store page for Python. The C89 issue is completely unrelated.
sametmax 7y ago
Not only Python is not installed (the command is a stub), but linux distributions have been shipping Python forever, and it never froze anybody. It's a matter of how you support upgrading, now what you provide out of the box.
- fnord123 7y ago
  >It's a matter of how you support upgrading, now what you provide out of the box. Absolutely!
ufmace 7y ago
I haven't ready anything solid on it yet, but hopefully, since it's in the Windows store, it will be regularly updated.
pjmlp 7y ago
Because C++ is the future of systems programming on Windows. If you want to hold on to C, there is clang and GCC. There are multiple occurrences of this statements from Microsoft employees blogs and talks, apparently some keep missing it. And actually VC++ compatibility with ISO C has been updated to the extent required by ISO C++, meaning C11 standard library, and some language constructs that were considered relevant by major customers.
- fnord123 7y ago
  >There are multiple occurrences of this statements from Microsoft employees blogs and talks, apparently some keep missing it. The people in question are not missing it. I'm not missing it. The only thing that needs to happen is a decision in the CPython project is to drop MSVC support, move to C++, or give up on C99 and C11. But it will have taken a long time to get there are they've wasted that time in the meantime waiting for the penny to drop. My point is that is the release channel through the Microsoft Store is held up like the C99 support that never came, then it will be an inconvenient situation for many Python application developers. But I guess we all use nix, guix, or venv to distribute things so it's no bother at all. (I don't even use Windows on any machine so I have absolutely no skin in the game here).
  - pjmlp 7y ago
    Visual C++ supports ISO C to the extent required by ISO C++, which includes C11 standard library. Plus some C11 language constructs considered relevant enough to support as C++ extensions, due to customers or high profile FOSS projects. No idea who are "we all use nix, guix, or venv".

kevin_b_er 7y ago

Microsoft declared back in 2011 that Microsoft will never support the now 20 year old C standard. The MSVC compiler should be considered deprecated and removed in favor of something like llvm with MSVC system headers like Chrome does. The actual compiler isn't really a C Compiler anymore. http://www.drdobbs.com/cpp/interview-with-herb-sutter/231900562 http://www.drdobbs.com/cpp/interview-with-herb-sutter/231900...

ChrisSD 7y ago

No. This feature is essentially just a link to the Microsoft Store page for Python. The C89 issue is completely unrelated.

sametmax 7y ago

Not only Python is not installed (the command is a stub), but linux distributions have been shipping Python forever, and it never froze anybody. It's a matter of how you support upgrading, now what you provide out of the box.

fnord123 7y ago
>It's a matter of how you support upgrading, now what you provide out of the box. Absolutely!

ufmace 7y ago

I haven't ready anything solid on it yet, but hopefully, since it's in the Windows store, it will be regularly updated.

pjmlp 7y ago

Because C++ is the future of systems programming on Windows. If you want to hold on to C, there is clang and GCC. There are multiple occurrences of this statements from Microsoft employees blogs and talks, apparently some keep missing it. And actually VC++ compatibility with ISO C has been updated to the extent required by ISO C++, meaning C11 standard library, and some language constructs that were considered relevant by major customers.

fnord123 7y ago
>There are multiple occurrences of this statements from Microsoft employees blogs and talks, apparently some keep missing it. The people in question are not missing it. I'm not missing it. The only thing that needs to happen is a decision in the CPython project is to drop MSVC support, move to C++, or give up on C99 and C11. But it will have taken a long time to get there are they've wasted that time in the meantime waiting for the penny to drop. My point is that is the release channel through the Microsoft Store is held up like the C99 support that never came, then it will be an inconvenient situation for many Python application developers. But I guess we all use nix, guix, or venv to distribute things so it's no bother at all. (I don't even use Windows on any machine so I have absolutely no skin in the game here).
- pjmlp 7y ago
  Visual C++ supports ISO C to the extent required by ISO C++, which includes C11 standard library. Plus some C11 language constructs considered relevant enough to support as C++ extensions, due to customers or high profile FOSS projects. No idea who are "we all use nix, guix, or venv".