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Putin’s Media Struggle to Deal with HBO’s Chernobyl

199 points by okket 7y ago

bleh123 7y ago
Personally, i found the series on HBO to have been poorly researched and even more poorly delivered in execution. A whole part of dealing with Russians as well as a large part of how their policies are shaped can be understood through culture. The characteristic bent in mannerisms that value "honor", "masculinity", less emphasis on the exact and more on "estimates" while working through problems etc. Most people who've dealt with the Russians will agree, that this series came across as British propaganda, badly inserting their societal structures to communicate the events flowing in another, completely different structure. The main character looked like a poor Austin Powers impersonator playing a Russian. As an example, the Female Scientist, Ulana . . i have no problem with the producers exercising creative freedom to designate her character as the substitute for the hundreds of other scientists who worked on the project, but in doing so, wildly misrepresented the role of women in Russian society during those times. The choice of English as a language itself . . fine. What the producers can't seem to grasp is the delivery of Russian is aggressive. You don't make statements in tense situations with the British smooth tongue. That does not serve the understanding of the situations during those times very well. I could go on about the sheer lack of patriotism displayed by any of the main characters to the point where it felt as though it was forbidden when in reality, anyone who's lived through those times and interacted informally with these people knows the opposite is true, but i repeat myself.
- notdang 7y ago
  You keep repeating "Russian". It happened in USSR. Chernobyl is in Ukraine. USSR was not only Russia, but 14 more republics that are more or less independent countries now.
  - hartator 7y ago
    Specially when the comment main point is historical accuracy, but can’t remember the name of country at that time.
  - bleh123 7y ago
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russians https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russians I'll wait for an apology.
  - Mikeb85 7y ago
    Ukrainian culture and Russian culture are mostly the same (at least anywhere east of Galicia and west of Siberia), so it's not as if his points are suddenly moot. This is splitting hairs, especially considering Ukraine still wasn't a country yet.
    - ceejayoz 7y ago
      > This is splitting hairs, especially considering Ukraine still wasn't a country yet. Sure it was. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukrainian_Soviet_Socialist_Republic https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukrainian_Soviet_Socialist_Rep... > The Ukrainian Soviet Socialist Republic was a Founding Member of the UN. On 24 August 1991, Ukrainian Soviet Socialist Republic informed the UN that it had changed its name to Ukraine; see the Historical Information from the UN Treaty Collection. https://www.un.org/depts/dhl/unms/ukraine.shtml https://www.un.org/depts/dhl/unms/ukraine.shtml
    - mantas 7y ago
      Do you need a country to be a different culture? I guess Tibet has no different culture than Han Chinese since they don't have their own country, eh?
      - Mikeb85 7y ago
        Except the cultures are almost identical. Same religion, same food, same social norms and customs, same naming conventions, the two languages are mutually intelligible, most Ukrainians also speak Russian, hell even genetically they're almost the same (like I said, east of Galicia and west of Siberia). I grew up in a Ukrainian-Canadian family, there was no animosity towards Russians whatsoever until the Orange Revolution and the fallout from that... They literally went to the same churches, did all the same things, it was objectively speaking the same culture.
- stargazer-3 7y ago
  >> wildly misrepresented the role of women in Russian society during those times Women were better represented in USSR's STEM fields that in the US. For example, Between 1962 and 1964, women were awarded 40 percent of the chemistry PhD, while in the US that number was five percent [1]. I recently went to see my grandmother, and she showed me her Physics collage graduation pics - there was only one man in their class of ten students. And no, it was not due to WWII raising women/men ratio - born in the 30-ies her generation was too young to be drafted. [1]: https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/soviet-russia-had-a-better-record-of-training-women-in-stem-than-america-does-today-180948141/ https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/soviet-russia-had-...
- vl 7y ago
  My exact sentiment about The Game of Thrones.
- notfromhere 7y ago
  Pretty sure chernobyl is a great example of why machismo culture in decision structures lead to dumb decision-making all the way down. But you're really wrong about the representation of women; sure the social norms were very conservative towards women, but they were very well represented in male-dominated fields. As one of those Slavs, it's not some inherent cultural strain, it's just the result of hardheaded authoritarianism and the rigidity of authoritarian systems when faced with the reality that they are wrong.
OskarS 7y ago
One thing I found really eye-opening about this show is that it really showed both the bad side as well as the good side of Soviet culture. It is unquestionably the case that Soviet authoritarianism and disregard for safety is to blame for what happened. But one thing that is often forgotten, but I think the show highlights, is how well the aftermath was handled. Yes, Pripyat should have been evacuated earlier, and yes, they should probably have notified the rest of the world sooner. But think of this: the Soviet Union mobilized 500,000-750,000 people to clean up the enormous exclusion zone. They got thousands of men to don full lead suits (that could only be used once) to run out on a roof for 90 seconds each to throw off radioactive rocks one at a time. They built the enormous containment structure in just a few months, arguably the greatest feat of civil engineering in history. One of my favorite scenes in the show is when Legasov says he immediately needs 5,000 tons of sand and boron to cover the core, and Scherbina basically just walks off and gets it for him (along with a full fleet of helicopters to drop it). All of this was necessary, and they did all of it, no matter the cost. This was unquestionably a real strength of the Soviet Union. Can you imagine that the US would have been able to respond like this? Either today or in the 80s? I can't. With the exception of wartime mobilization, I can think of almost nothing else that even compares. There are few (if any) societies in history that could have done what the Soviet Union did in response to Chernobyl. In a way, the world is lucky it happened there and not somewhere else.
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- egao1980 7y ago
  USSR in 1986 was not autharitarian as depicted in the series. There were no inspections at gunpoint - people went to certain death to save lives of others. Knowingly. This is Cold War's 80s, even schoolchildren knew dangers of radiation, including symptoms of radiation sickness etc. Evacuation started as soon as disaster recovery team got evidence of dangerous levels of radiation, there were sanitary norms and pre-planned measures for any kind of problem at the station.
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
chucksmash 7y ago
I came across this yesterday but wasn't sure what to make of it. I have no prior for themoscowtimes.com. When I googled for corroboration (as a non-Russian speaker) all I found was blogspam citing this article. It gives me pause because, as reported, it seems almost comically reactionary. "We're going to make our own Chernobyl show but with CIA saboteurs because some historians don't say it didn't happen." From the article: > Still, an attempt will be made to put an entirely different spin on those events. Russia’s NTV channel has already announced that it is shooting its own “Chernobyl” series based on the premise that the CIA sent an agent to the Chernobyl zone to carry out acts of sabotage. Can someone with access to Russian media corroborate this or provide insight?
- golergka 7y ago
  This new series by NTV is widely discussed news here and completely true. Also, The Moscow Times is a newspaper that, I believe, dates back to at least the 90s.
  - enimodas 7y ago
    What does the public think of the show there?
    - golergka 7y ago
      Everyone I talked to absolutely loved it. It's a common theme on Russian twitter (which is mostly anti-government, pro-western, pro-LGBT, as opposed to general population of the country) that the show is awesome and the fact that it was filmed in UK and never could've been filmed in Russia is a testament to the state of our cinema. Also, set design is stunningly truthful to the soviet era, I've seen quite a few comments after the first episodes about how familiar it looks, and can testify so myself. Also, the Kremlin corridors look exactly like they did in reality, despite some critics. The only thing, sometimes the apartments and material things look a little bit too nice for the era, may be.
      - cpursley 7y ago
awrence 7y ago
I loved the show but in case you missed it this was a very eye opening take that seems genuine. https://www.newyorker.com/news/our-columnists/what-hbos-chernobyl-got-right-and-what-it-got-terribly-wrong https://www.newyorker.com/news/our-columnists/what-hbos-cher...
- loyukfai 7y ago
  Just read this a few hours ago, is there any other published information for corroboration? From what I gather from the New Yorker piece, this mini-series is ok as long as one takes into consideration that it's a historical drama, not documentary?
  - acidburnNSA 7y ago
    On the technical/nuclear side, there's a strong critique here [1]. They really embellished on the characterization of the health impacts. For instance, in the epilogue they said: "Between 4,000 and 93,000 people died" where the correct statement is "A large international team of expert scientists estimated that up to 4,000 people will eventually die from early cancers on top of a population where millions would have without the accident, and a fringe group of anti-nuclear people said 93,000 without basis." [1] https://www.forbes.com/sites/michaelshellenberger/2019/06/06/why-hbos-chernobyl-gets-nuclear-so-wrong/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/michaelshellenberger/2019/06/06...
    - iooi 7y ago
      > fringe group of anti-nuclear people said 93,000 without basis This is the line being pushed by pro-nuclear people every time this show comes up on social media. Thankfully we have better sources than a random person's blog on Forbes! Let's take a look at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deaths_due_to_the_Chernobyl_disaster https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deaths_due_to_the_Chernobyl_di... "an April 2006 special report in the peer-reviewed, scientific journal Nature detailed in response—the accuracy and precision of this United Nations-led joint group's projected death toll of 4,000 were immediately contested, with several of the very scientists, physicians, and biomedical consortia whose work the joint group had cited alleging publicly that the joint group had either misrepresented their work or interpreted it out of context" "By 2016, some Ukranian and Belarussian physicians charged with treating large numbers of former liquidators in the decades since the accident were calling for more comprehensive studies and urging that the IAEA's estimated toll of disaster-related deaths from long-latency diseases be revised upwards"
sittingnut 7y ago
why is a western government funded themoscowtimes propaganda article about putin's propaganda here? this is same as having putin propaganda articles here.
auct 7y ago
Every time some truth about how retarded russia is, there will be russian trolls. Always.
golergka 7y ago
One thing that surprised me as I watched the show, is that it really didn't have a single antagonist, or a consciously evil act by anyone depicted - the evil that lead to the accident was always in the design of the system itself, not in any particular person. Everyone making decisions, even the worst ones, was working with information he had on hand, with assumptions and logic he was taught as gospel from very young age. It's very unusual to see a western show that would so truthfully depict a societal story, instead of slipping to the usual level of character-driven drama.
- pennaMan 7y ago
  >It's very unusual to see a western show that would so truthfully depict a societal story You will love The Wire
  - golergka 7y ago
    I did. As first seasons of Game of Thrones. But usually the hollywood screenwriters put too much emphasis on the characters.
pessimizer 7y ago
I don't feel I understand why Putin would have anything to deal with here. It's not like he's some huge USSR booster or hater. That Russia didn't produce a prestige TV program about it before the west is not exactly a pressing issue, and Russia isn't particularly known for its prestige TV exports. All criticism or compliment about anyone Russian, dead or alive, doesn't have to be contextualized into a salvo of a propaganda war that imperils or emboldens Putin. Or maybe it does, for clicks.
- a-nikolaev 7y ago
  I think, according to the official Russian government position, USA is the enemy, and is responsible for anything bad that happens. Russian propaganda is very unambiguous about its message: Russia is doing the right thing for the world, our Soviet history was great, and, by the way, look, we have new uber-weapons against possible American interventions. The fact that HBO was able to create such a believable depiction of the Soviet reality, shatters the simplistic propaganda message of "We are good, they are bad". It shows that UK and US people can tell a story that hits so close to home for every Russian person, and no official historical Russian movie of recent time was able to do anything remotely close. People who are tired of the propaganda message, seek the truth, and the contrast between Chernobyl and propaganda movies is striking. It is hard to demonize the West, if the West tells you such a realistic story of your own past.
  - Muha_ 7y ago
    You can believe that if the Russians make a film about the segregation of blacks in America, you too will be mad and say that Americans have never been so evil and stupid (and it will be true partly).
    - a-nikolaev 7y ago
      Do you imply that I should be also mad at the depiction of heroic Soviet firefighters in Chernobyl? I think, to the contrary, they are like the most brave and heroic Soviet characters I've ever seen in a western movie. My point is that the West was able to make a more humane and relatable movie about USSR than what all modern Russian propaganda tried and failed to do. This series is shattering the "us vs them" mentality the Russian media tries to instill.
nimbius 7y ago
this might be unrelated, but i drew a number of comparisons between the kremlin and the Fukushima incident in terms of intractable bureaucracy. The sheer number of mistakes made at Daiichi really struck me as impossible. I guess it didnt hit home for me until the 12 mile exclusion zone was imposed and irradiated garbage began showing up on US and Canadian coasts. It was nowhere near as dire or blatant as Chernobyl, but some issues were definitely things I felt like we had learned about these types of disaster by 2011. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fukushima_Daiichi_nuclear_disaster#Poor_communication_and_delays https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fukushima_Daiichi_nuclear_disa... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Investigations_into_the_Fukushima_Daiichi_nuclear_disaster https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Investigations_into_the_Fukush...
- bitL 7y ago
  I noticed some parallels when Daiichi meltdowns were ongoing and "everything was fine" - I guess it's the initial shock that unthinkable has happened and paralyzing disbelief leading to lies and cover ups. I even remember how shocked Japanese PM looked like on TV after the first real info came out of TEPCO, not mentioning strange movements of US army ships likely detecting meltdown right away.
scottlocklin 7y ago
Funny, I didn't realize there was an HBO TV show, but that article sure reads like some stereotypical Soviet propaganda, albeit from "our" side.
shinkarom 7y ago
Wow. The article's author has no Russian accent whatsoever. (Unless it was translated by an English speaker). Wish I had the same command of English. Somehow I doubt multilingual Ukranian newspapers are that much unaccented in their English. I had no temptation to open the Russian version of the article because the English text was not awkward to read.
- cpursley 7y ago
  It's intended for an English speaking audience.
  - shinkarom 7y ago
    Yes, but it was certainly written by a Russian and possibly even written in Russian and translated after the fact. Not every journalist from around here I know can write articles in such flawless English that has no traces of a Russian accent. It's a thing I can only envy.
    - cpursley 7y ago
      As a native English speaker who's learning Russian, I can certainly relate (Russian is quite difficult for me).
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
evgeniysharapov 7y ago
How ironic. The main theme of the Chernobyl mini-series is that lies do not only not make things better, they exacerbate them. Now, in order to fix PR "fallout" there's another "lie" emanating from almost the same source - Kremlin and surroundings. As the lessons of history teach us - this does not work. This "blockbuster" will obviously not be seen at a level comparable to HBO's mini-series. But even those who might see, will most likely see it for what it is - attempt to cover-up and put up a good facade in front of a disaster. It is almost unbelievable that Craig Mazin captured this essence - "the nation that is scared of humiliation will humiliate itself". I know that it's most likely a PR stunt, and there's probably not going to be any movie made, and the money grant from the government will be gone and not accounted for, and yet. And yet. How ironic that in attempt to whitewash the national disaster portrayed in this mini-series, Russia is doing what has been presented in this show as a main cause of the Chernobyl incident.
gdubs 7y ago
I thought the show was brilliant. Nightmarish, and hard to stop thinking about. One of my first jobs was working on presentation materials for a book on Chernobyl. This was quite some time ago, but the photos and the story have always stuck with me. What I didn’t really grasp until watching the show was how strong a case could be made that (despite the common narratives) Chernobyl was the real catalyst for the fall of the USSR. Epic, expensive, embarrassing, disaster only a short time before the fall. I was fine with the creative liberties the show takes. You have to. Otherwise you should just have people read five books on the subject. But books don’t reach as many people and television is a strong medium in its own right. A lot of the criticism feels like “the book was better than the movie” arguments. For the most well rounded impression of actual events, do both! Read the books, and watch the drama. But keep in mind that humans are driven by stories and narrative. The “official” events are a narrative, as is the reporting, the opinion columns, and yes, the show too.
- agumonkey 7y ago
  I watched episode 1 out of curiosity. The first minutes tapped into my half life nostalgia so I was happy. But then I couldn't bear the fact that this is no novel, people did have to deal with these events for real.
  - a-nikolaev 7y ago
    Yeah right. I think, it also has an atmosphere of the Alien movie. Yet, it is a depiction of real events, and that reality is so overwhelming.. I think, I wish they make a similar movie about people in World War II.
bArray 7y ago
Regardless of the actual truth, I think it's important for people everywhere to be skeptical and to probe their governments. I'm glad this has the Russian people asking questions and discussing the undeniable tragedy at Chernobyl, this is how we prevent ourselves from repeating history. I hope the people of Russia can shake the authority's trees enough that the truth falls out. It's also important to remember that the rest of the world is one unfortunate incident away from nuclear disaster, you only need to look at Japan's Fukushima [1]. There was also the plutonium rods picture near disaster [2]. We all need to learn from these lessons. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fukushima_Daiichi_nuclear_disaster https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fukushima_Daiichi_nuclear_disa... [2] https://apps.publicintegrity.org/nuclear-negligence/near-disaster/ https://apps.publicintegrity.org/nuclear-negligence/near-dis...
kumarharsh 7y ago
The point is well made in the article, and I feel the same would happen with stories connected with India. Indian TV is such a clusterefk of bad content and lazy work that when the west would inevitably make a season on any of the countless things which happened in India, it'll be heads and shoulders above anything we could ever make today. And then the same "Oh, this is not the correct story" propoganda will be touted by people, gloriously oblivious to the great opportunity which they wasted by making mediocre me-too drama. Also, Chernobyl is a great show!
johnnycab 7y ago
Radiation Dose Chart. https://xkcd.com/radiation/ https://xkcd.com/radiation/

199 points by okket 7y ago

Personally, i found the series on HBO to have been poorly researched and even more poorly delivered in execution. A whole part of dealing with Russians as well as a large part of how their policies are shaped can be understood through culture. The characteristic bent in mannerisms that value "honor", "masculinity", less emphasis on the exact and more on "estimates" while working through problems etc. Most people who've dealt with the Russians will agree, that this series came across as British propaganda, badly inserting their societal structures to communicate the events flowing in another, completely different structure. The main character looked like a poor Austin Powers impersonator playing a Russian. As an example, the Female Scientist, Ulana . . i have no problem with the producers exercising creative freedom to designate her character as the substitute for the hundreds of other scientists who worked on the project, but in doing so, wildly misrepresented the role of women in Russian society during those times. The choice of English as a language itself . . fine. What the producers can't seem to grasp is the delivery of Russian is aggressive. You don't make statements in tense situations with the British smooth tongue. That does not serve the understanding of the situations during those times very well. I could go on about the sheer lack of patriotism displayed by any of the main characters to the point where it felt as though it was forbidden when in reality, anyone who's lived through those times and interacted informally with these people knows the opposite is true, but i repeat myself.

notdang 7y ago
You keep repeating "Russian". It happened in USSR. Chernobyl is in Ukraine. USSR was not only Russia, but 14 more republics that are more or less independent countries now.
- hartator 7y ago
  Specially when the comment main point is historical accuracy, but can’t remember the name of country at that time.
- bleh123 7y ago
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russians https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russians I'll wait for an apology.
- Mikeb85 7y ago
  Ukrainian culture and Russian culture are mostly the same (at least anywhere east of Galicia and west of Siberia), so it's not as if his points are suddenly moot. This is splitting hairs, especially considering Ukraine still wasn't a country yet.
  - ceejayoz 7y ago
    > This is splitting hairs, especially considering Ukraine still wasn't a country yet. Sure it was. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukrainian_Soviet_Socialist_Republic https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukrainian_Soviet_Socialist_Rep... > The Ukrainian Soviet Socialist Republic was a Founding Member of the UN. On 24 August 1991, Ukrainian Soviet Socialist Republic informed the UN that it had changed its name to Ukraine; see the Historical Information from the UN Treaty Collection. https://www.un.org/depts/dhl/unms/ukraine.shtml https://www.un.org/depts/dhl/unms/ukraine.shtml
  - mantas 7y ago
    Do you need a country to be a different culture? I guess Tibet has no different culture than Han Chinese since they don't have their own country, eh?
    - Mikeb85 7y ago
      Except the cultures are almost identical. Same religion, same food, same social norms and customs, same naming conventions, the two languages are mutually intelligible, most Ukrainians also speak Russian, hell even genetically they're almost the same (like I said, east of Galicia and west of Siberia). I grew up in a Ukrainian-Canadian family, there was no animosity towards Russians whatsoever until the Orange Revolution and the fallout from that... They literally went to the same churches, did all the same things, it was objectively speaking the same culture.
stargazer-3 7y ago
>> wildly misrepresented the role of women in Russian society during those times Women were better represented in USSR's STEM fields that in the US. For example, Between 1962 and 1964, women were awarded 40 percent of the chemistry PhD, while in the US that number was five percent [1]. I recently went to see my grandmother, and she showed me her Physics collage graduation pics - there was only one man in their class of ten students. And no, it was not due to WWII raising women/men ratio - born in the 30-ies her generation was too young to be drafted. [1]: https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/soviet-russia-had-a-better-record-of-training-women-in-stem-than-america-does-today-180948141/ https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/soviet-russia-had-...
vl 7y ago
My exact sentiment about The Game of Thrones.
notfromhere 7y ago
Pretty sure chernobyl is a great example of why machismo culture in decision structures lead to dumb decision-making all the way down. But you're really wrong about the representation of women; sure the social norms were very conservative towards women, but they were very well represented in male-dominated fields. As one of those Slavs, it's not some inherent cultural strain, it's just the result of hardheaded authoritarianism and the rigidity of authoritarian systems when faced with the reality that they are wrong.

OskarS 7y ago

One thing I found really eye-opening about this show is that it really showed both the bad side as well as the good side of Soviet culture. It is unquestionably the case that Soviet authoritarianism and disregard for safety is to blame for what happened. But one thing that is often forgotten, but I think the show highlights, is how well the aftermath was handled. Yes, Pripyat should have been evacuated earlier, and yes, they should probably have notified the rest of the world sooner. But think of this: the Soviet Union mobilized 500,000-750,000 people to clean up the enormous exclusion zone. They got thousands of men to don full lead suits (that could only be used once) to run out on a roof for 90 seconds each to throw off radioactive rocks one at a time. They built the enormous containment structure in just a few months, arguably the greatest feat of civil engineering in history. One of my favorite scenes in the show is when Legasov says he immediately needs 5,000 tons of sand and boron to cover the core, and Scherbina basically just walks off and gets it for him (along with a full fleet of helicopters to drop it). All of this was necessary, and they did all of it, no matter the cost. This was unquestionably a real strength of the Soviet Union. Can you imagine that the US would have been able to respond like this? Either today or in the 80s? I can't. With the exception of wartime mobilization, I can think of almost nothing else that even compares. There are few (if any) societies in history that could have done what the Soviet Union did in response to Chernobyl. In a way, the world is lucky it happened there and not somewhere else.

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egao1980 7y ago
USSR in 1986 was not autharitarian as depicted in the series. There were no inspections at gunpoint - people went to certain death to save lives of others. Knowingly. This is Cold War's 80s, even schoolchildren knew dangers of radiation, including symptoms of radiation sickness etc. Evacuation started as soon as disaster recovery team got evidence of dangerous levels of radiation, there were sanitary norms and pre-planned measures for any kind of problem at the station.

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

chucksmash 7y ago

I came across this yesterday but wasn't sure what to make of it. I have no prior for themoscowtimes.com. When I googled for corroboration (as a non-Russian speaker) all I found was blogspam citing this article. It gives me pause because, as reported, it seems almost comically reactionary. "We're going to make our own Chernobyl show but with CIA saboteurs because some historians don't say it didn't happen." From the article: > Still, an attempt will be made to put an entirely different spin on those events. Russia’s NTV channel has already announced that it is shooting its own “Chernobyl” series based on the premise that the CIA sent an agent to the Chernobyl zone to carry out acts of sabotage. Can someone with access to Russian media corroborate this or provide insight?

golergka 7y ago
This new series by NTV is widely discussed news here and completely true. Also, The Moscow Times is a newspaper that, I believe, dates back to at least the 90s.
- enimodas 7y ago
  What does the public think of the show there?
  - golergka 7y ago
    Everyone I talked to absolutely loved it. It's a common theme on Russian twitter (which is mostly anti-government, pro-western, pro-LGBT, as opposed to general population of the country) that the show is awesome and the fact that it was filmed in UK and never could've been filmed in Russia is a testament to the state of our cinema. Also, set design is stunningly truthful to the soviet era, I've seen quite a few comments after the first episodes about how familiar it looks, and can testify so myself. Also, the Kremlin corridors look exactly like they did in reality, despite some critics. The only thing, sometimes the apartments and material things look a little bit too nice for the era, may be.
    - cpursley 7y ago

awrence 7y ago

I loved the show but in case you missed it this was a very eye opening take that seems genuine. https://www.newyorker.com/news/our-columnists/what-hbos-chernobyl-got-right-and-what-it-got-terribly-wrong https://www.newyorker.com/news/our-columnists/what-hbos-cher...

loyukfai 7y ago
Just read this a few hours ago, is there any other published information for corroboration? From what I gather from the New Yorker piece, this mini-series is ok as long as one takes into consideration that it's a historical drama, not documentary?
- acidburnNSA 7y ago
  On the technical/nuclear side, there's a strong critique here [1]. They really embellished on the characterization of the health impacts. For instance, in the epilogue they said: "Between 4,000 and 93,000 people died" where the correct statement is "A large international team of expert scientists estimated that up to 4,000 people will eventually die from early cancers on top of a population where millions would have without the accident, and a fringe group of anti-nuclear people said 93,000 without basis." [1] https://www.forbes.com/sites/michaelshellenberger/2019/06/06/why-hbos-chernobyl-gets-nuclear-so-wrong/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/michaelshellenberger/2019/06/06...
  - iooi 7y ago
    > fringe group of anti-nuclear people said 93,000 without basis This is the line being pushed by pro-nuclear people every time this show comes up on social media. Thankfully we have better sources than a random person's blog on Forbes! Let's take a look at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deaths_due_to_the_Chernobyl_disaster https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deaths_due_to_the_Chernobyl_di... "an April 2006 special report in the peer-reviewed, scientific journal Nature detailed in response—the accuracy and precision of this United Nations-led joint group's projected death toll of 4,000 were immediately contested, with several of the very scientists, physicians, and biomedical consortia whose work the joint group had cited alleging publicly that the joint group had either misrepresented their work or interpreted it out of context" "By 2016, some Ukranian and Belarussian physicians charged with treating large numbers of former liquidators in the decades since the accident were calling for more comprehensive studies and urging that the IAEA's estimated toll of disaster-related deaths from long-latency diseases be revised upwards"

sittingnut 7y ago

why is a western government funded themoscowtimes propaganda article about putin's propaganda here? this is same as having putin propaganda articles here.

auct 7y ago

Every time some truth about how retarded russia is, there will be russian trolls. Always.

golergka 7y ago

One thing that surprised me as I watched the show, is that it really didn't have a single antagonist, or a consciously evil act by anyone depicted - the evil that lead to the accident was always in the design of the system itself, not in any particular person. Everyone making decisions, even the worst ones, was working with information he had on hand, with assumptions and logic he was taught as gospel from very young age. It's very unusual to see a western show that would so truthfully depict a societal story, instead of slipping to the usual level of character-driven drama.

pennaMan 7y ago
>It's very unusual to see a western show that would so truthfully depict a societal story You will love The Wire
- golergka 7y ago
  I did. As first seasons of Game of Thrones. But usually the hollywood screenwriters put too much emphasis on the characters.

pessimizer 7y ago

I don't feel I understand why Putin would have anything to deal with here. It's not like he's some huge USSR booster or hater. That Russia didn't produce a prestige TV program about it before the west is not exactly a pressing issue, and Russia isn't particularly known for its prestige TV exports. All criticism or compliment about anyone Russian, dead or alive, doesn't have to be contextualized into a salvo of a propaganda war that imperils or emboldens Putin. Or maybe it does, for clicks.

a-nikolaev 7y ago
I think, according to the official Russian government position, USA is the enemy, and is responsible for anything bad that happens. Russian propaganda is very unambiguous about its message: Russia is doing the right thing for the world, our Soviet history was great, and, by the way, look, we have new uber-weapons against possible American interventions. The fact that HBO was able to create such a believable depiction of the Soviet reality, shatters the simplistic propaganda message of "We are good, they are bad". It shows that UK and US people can tell a story that hits so close to home for every Russian person, and no official historical Russian movie of recent time was able to do anything remotely close. People who are tired of the propaganda message, seek the truth, and the contrast between Chernobyl and propaganda movies is striking. It is hard to demonize the West, if the West tells you such a realistic story of your own past.
- Muha_ 7y ago
  You can believe that if the Russians make a film about the segregation of blacks in America, you too will be mad and say that Americans have never been so evil and stupid (and it will be true partly).
  - a-nikolaev 7y ago
    Do you imply that I should be also mad at the depiction of heroic Soviet firefighters in Chernobyl? I think, to the contrary, they are like the most brave and heroic Soviet characters I've ever seen in a western movie. My point is that the West was able to make a more humane and relatable movie about USSR than what all modern Russian propaganda tried and failed to do. This series is shattering the "us vs them" mentality the Russian media tries to instill.

nimbius 7y ago

this might be unrelated, but i drew a number of comparisons between the kremlin and the Fukushima incident in terms of intractable bureaucracy. The sheer number of mistakes made at Daiichi really struck me as impossible. I guess it didnt hit home for me until the 12 mile exclusion zone was imposed and irradiated garbage began showing up on US and Canadian coasts. It was nowhere near as dire or blatant as Chernobyl, but some issues were definitely things I felt like we had learned about these types of disaster by 2011. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fukushima_Daiichi_nuclear_disaster#Poor_communication_and_delays https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fukushima_Daiichi_nuclear_disa... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Investigations_into_the_Fukushima_Daiichi_nuclear_disaster https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Investigations_into_the_Fukush...

bitL 7y ago
I noticed some parallels when Daiichi meltdowns were ongoing and "everything was fine" - I guess it's the initial shock that unthinkable has happened and paralyzing disbelief leading to lies and cover ups. I even remember how shocked Japanese PM looked like on TV after the first real info came out of TEPCO, not mentioning strange movements of US army ships likely detecting meltdown right away.

scottlocklin 7y ago

Funny, I didn't realize there was an HBO TV show, but that article sure reads like some stereotypical Soviet propaganda, albeit from "our" side.

shinkarom 7y ago

Wow. The article's author has no Russian accent whatsoever. (Unless it was translated by an English speaker). Wish I had the same command of English. Somehow I doubt multilingual Ukranian newspapers are that much unaccented in their English. I had no temptation to open the Russian version of the article because the English text was not awkward to read.

cpursley 7y ago
It's intended for an English speaking audience.
- shinkarom 7y ago
  Yes, but it was certainly written by a Russian and possibly even written in Russian and translated after the fact. Not every journalist from around here I know can write articles in such flawless English that has no traces of a Russian accent. It's a thing I can only envy.
  - cpursley 7y ago
    As a native English speaker who's learning Russian, I can certainly relate (Russian is quite difficult for me).

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

evgeniysharapov 7y ago

How ironic. The main theme of the Chernobyl mini-series is that lies do not only not make things better, they exacerbate them. Now, in order to fix PR "fallout" there's another "lie" emanating from almost the same source - Kremlin and surroundings. As the lessons of history teach us - this does not work. This "blockbuster" will obviously not be seen at a level comparable to HBO's mini-series. But even those who might see, will most likely see it for what it is - attempt to cover-up and put up a good facade in front of a disaster. It is almost unbelievable that Craig Mazin captured this essence - "the nation that is scared of humiliation will humiliate itself". I know that it's most likely a PR stunt, and there's probably not going to be any movie made, and the money grant from the government will be gone and not accounted for, and yet. And yet. How ironic that in attempt to whitewash the national disaster portrayed in this mini-series, Russia is doing what has been presented in this show as a main cause of the Chernobyl incident.

gdubs 7y ago

I thought the show was brilliant. Nightmarish, and hard to stop thinking about. One of my first jobs was working on presentation materials for a book on Chernobyl. This was quite some time ago, but the photos and the story have always stuck with me. What I didn’t really grasp until watching the show was how strong a case could be made that (despite the common narratives) Chernobyl was the real catalyst for the fall of the USSR. Epic, expensive, embarrassing, disaster only a short time before the fall. I was fine with the creative liberties the show takes. You have to. Otherwise you should just have people read five books on the subject. But books don’t reach as many people and television is a strong medium in its own right. A lot of the criticism feels like “the book was better than the movie” arguments. For the most well rounded impression of actual events, do both! Read the books, and watch the drama. But keep in mind that humans are driven by stories and narrative. The “official” events are a narrative, as is the reporting, the opinion columns, and yes, the show too.

agumonkey 7y ago
I watched episode 1 out of curiosity. The first minutes tapped into my half life nostalgia so I was happy. But then I couldn't bear the fact that this is no novel, people did have to deal with these events for real.
- a-nikolaev 7y ago
  Yeah right. I think, it also has an atmosphere of the Alien movie. Yet, it is a depiction of real events, and that reality is so overwhelming.. I think, I wish they make a similar movie about people in World War II.

bArray 7y ago

Regardless of the actual truth, I think it's important for people everywhere to be skeptical and to probe their governments. I'm glad this has the Russian people asking questions and discussing the undeniable tragedy at Chernobyl, this is how we prevent ourselves from repeating history. I hope the people of Russia can shake the authority's trees enough that the truth falls out. It's also important to remember that the rest of the world is one unfortunate incident away from nuclear disaster, you only need to look at Japan's Fukushima [1]. There was also the plutonium rods picture near disaster [2]. We all need to learn from these lessons. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fukushima_Daiichi_nuclear_disaster https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fukushima_Daiichi_nuclear_disa... [2] https://apps.publicintegrity.org/nuclear-negligence/near-disaster/ https://apps.publicintegrity.org/nuclear-negligence/near-dis...

kumarharsh 7y ago

The point is well made in the article, and I feel the same would happen with stories connected with India. Indian TV is such a clusterefk of bad content and lazy work that when the west would inevitably make a season on any of the countless things which happened in India, it'll be heads and shoulders above anything we could ever make today. And then the same "Oh, this is not the correct story" propoganda will be touted by people, gloriously oblivious to the great opportunity which they wasted by making mediocre me-too drama. Also, Chernobyl is a great show!

johnnycab 7y ago

Radiation Dose Chart. https://xkcd.com/radiation/ https://xkcd.com/radiation/