7 ms·

The average commuter won't carry huge luggage around. But they might spend the time reading or working out they are sitting in a train/metro compartment. And th

The average commuter won't carry huge luggage around. But they might spend the time reading or working out they are sitting in a train/metro compartment. And they exercise when using the bicycle, meaning they will be healthier and have reduced health issues and cost. Bicycles are also much less costly and environmentally friendly, don't pollute, are less likely to have accidents (except with cars), ... But infrastructure is much cheaper and easier to maintain then that for cars. Cars on the other hand block the roads not just for each other, but also for public transport, trucks, emergency vehicles, ... They produce co2 and microparticles, take up valuable space when parked, etc. Overall cars have huge externalities. So no, cars are not the best means of transport just because you can carry lots of stuff which you usually don't carry...

rayiner 7y ago
Have you ever lived outside San Francisco or Portland? Here in DC, during the summer (which lasts six months out of the year), the heat and humidity will have people sweating with even mild exertion. So to the speed of walking or biking, you have to also account for the time to take a shower at either end. The CO2 and microparticles are definitely a problem. One which can be addressed by banning non-electric cars downtown.
- liotier 7y ago
  > you have to also account for the time to take a shower at either end No need to shower: I just change _all_ of my clothes when I arrive... Cycling clothes on me, business clothes and dress shoes in a semi-rigid pouch in my panniers. Takes five minutes at each end and the total time is still half of what car or public transportation would take !
  - vonmoltke 7y ago
    I guess that depends on how much if a sweat you work up. Personally, if I work up enough whereby I need to change my clothes at he end I am going to feel disgusting if I don't also shower.
    - liotier 7y ago
      A small towel is part of the kit. Very short haircut too... But yes, at some point it is a lifestyle choice: I quite happily sartorial sophistication (I forego tie and jacket: my office attire is dress pants, dress shoes and a nice shirt - sufficient social camouflage that packs neatly) but I understand that others might prefer the "delicate princess in an air-conditioned bubble" way of living, even though it is harmful to their health.
      - eythian 7y ago
        It doesn't have to be a lifestyle choice. I bike every day, except when my bike is being serviced. I always dress for the destination, and that's what virtually everyone else in this city does.
        liotier 7y ago
        Yes, my way is what old timers do (I have been urban cycling for 30 years) but we are a tiny minority and the rest of the commuters just use whatever clothes are their daily standard, with maybe a slight adaptation... Still I don't understand how they are comfortable in any but mild weather conditions: specialized cycling clothing is so much more comfortable in heat, storms, snow and anything in-between - and I most people in the office have no idea I commute by bicycle (though they may suspect it when they contemplate my gorgeous ass)...
      - ubercow13 7y ago
        Even after changing clothes and toweling off not only would I feel gross all day, I think I would get acne over my body if I did this every day. To each their own.
    - dropofwill 7y ago
      I use my commutes as a way to get some hill repeat intervals in and in the summer that means i’m covered in sweat. There are no showers at work, so i do a couple of things to keep clean. * Showering before you leave so that the sweat doesn’t smell. * Chilling our after the ride for a bit to let your heart rate drop back down. This gets you to a point where you aren’t sweating anymore. * Towel off the excess sweat and put on fresh clothes. The only real downside is my helmet messes up my hair.
- Xylakant 7y ago
  >The CO2 and microparticles are definitely a problem. One which can be addressed by banning non-electric cars downtown. A substantial amount of the microparticles are from brakes and tires, a problem that electric cars don’t really solve. They still have tires.
  - cameldrv 7y ago
    They do help with the brakes though. Most of the braking in an electric car is from regenerative braking rather than friction.
    - Xylakant 7y ago
      It’s very hard to find definite stats on this, but the ratio tires:brakes seems to be somewhere between 2:1 to 3:1. So the overwhelming majority still remains. The other problem that remains is that microparticles that have settled will be pulled in the air again by passing cars.
      - cameldrv 7y ago
        Hopefully we'll see some more research on this as time goes on. I strongly suspect that there is a tradeoff between traction and microparticle production. Very grippy racing tires tend not to last long. If you could have some sort of traction assist device like a rubber block on a piston that hit the ground for emergency braking, you could get away with lower traction on the wheels normally, and modern electronic controls could make the whole thing stable and relatively transparent to the driver. First we'll have to overcome the slow motion catastrophe that is gasoline direct injection.
- kasey_junk 7y ago
  But you get to count the commute against your exercise budget instead of your sedentary time budget.
- kaybe 7y ago
  Funfact: The pollution inside the cars is even worse (unless you have upgraded the filters).
- asdff 7y ago
  Where I live it can get so hot in the summer that my AC can't cool the car down if it's been parked outside. Opening the windows doesn't even get all the heat out. Plus I have leather seats so my back fuses to the leather. You can get electric bikes that are assistive, so every pedal you do will feel like you are pedaling downhill even if you are going uphill. Combine that with the sweet breeze lapping at your back, evaporating that back sweat, and I can't imagine a better summer experience. If you need to wear a suit you are screwed either way. Five minutes standing still outside with a jacket on and you will start getting pit sweat. Just walking out to your car will make you sweat.
vonmoltke 7y ago
> But they might spend the time reading or working out they are sitting in a train/metro compartment. That's a big "might" that is conditioned on having a seat and space in which to do these things, none if which is a given. > Bicycles ... are less likely to have accidents (except with cars) After three years as a pedestrian in NYC I have almost been run over by assholes on bikes more than I have almost been run over by assholes in cars. > But infrastructure is much cheaper and easier to maintain then that for cars. How do you figure? Paved streets are still needed, arguably maintained to slightly higher standards than they are for cars. Signalling is still needed, unless you want a free-for-all of bike traffic (which I don't). In general, you seem to be comparing the happy cases of bicycles and public transit to the negatives of cars. It's and unfair and disingenuous comparison.
- llamathrowaway 7y ago
  > That's a big "might" that is conditioned on having a seat and space in which to do these things, none if which is a given. In the past plenty of people read newspapers while standing on trains. Nowadays we have smartphones and podcasts. It’s even easier. > I have almost been run over by assholes on bikes more than I have almost been run over by assholes in cars. Looks like an argument for better cycling infrastructure. Cars don’t really go wild in cities because they have dedicated road which are not shared with larger, more dangerous vehicles driven by people who are actively trying to cause problems to car drivers. If we have the same level of infrastructure for bicycles then maybe cyclists will stop competing with pedestrians for space. Cycling infrastructure can be cheaper than normal roads because bicycles are lighter than cars. It will also need less maintenance for the same reason. It also takes less space to store bikes than cars.
  - anonymou2 7y ago
    No, being an asshole is not solved by infrastructure, what you need is education. Cyclists typically don't believe that they are driving a vehicle (which they are). In fact dedicated infrastructure for cyclists only helps keep the myth that bicycles are not vehicles but some kind of toy and that its operators are not responsible adults but kids incapable of learning.
oarabbus_ 7y ago
You are ignoring heat, cold, rain, etc. A car is a magical piece of insulation from the elements. And depending on where you live that can matter quite a bit during the morning and evening commute.

rayiner 7y ago

Have you ever lived outside San Francisco or Portland? Here in DC, during the summer (which lasts six months out of the year), the heat and humidity will have people sweating with even mild exertion. So to the speed of walking or biking, you have to also account for the time to take a shower at either end. The CO2 and microparticles are definitely a problem. One which can be addressed by banning non-electric cars downtown.

liotier 7y ago
> you have to also account for the time to take a shower at either end No need to shower: I just change _all_ of my clothes when I arrive... Cycling clothes on me, business clothes and dress shoes in a semi-rigid pouch in my panniers. Takes five minutes at each end and the total time is still half of what car or public transportation would take !
- vonmoltke 7y ago
  I guess that depends on how much if a sweat you work up. Personally, if I work up enough whereby I need to change my clothes at he end I am going to feel disgusting if I don't also shower.
  - liotier 7y ago
    A small towel is part of the kit. Very short haircut too... But yes, at some point it is a lifestyle choice: I quite happily sartorial sophistication (I forego tie and jacket: my office attire is dress pants, dress shoes and a nice shirt - sufficient social camouflage that packs neatly) but I understand that others might prefer the "delicate princess in an air-conditioned bubble" way of living, even though it is harmful to their health.
    - eythian 7y ago
      It doesn't have to be a lifestyle choice. I bike every day, except when my bike is being serviced. I always dress for the destination, and that's what virtually everyone else in this city does.
      - liotier 7y ago
        Yes, my way is what old timers do (I have been urban cycling for 30 years) but we are a tiny minority and the rest of the commuters just use whatever clothes are their daily standard, with maybe a slight adaptation... Still I don't understand how they are comfortable in any but mild weather conditions: specialized cycling clothing is so much more comfortable in heat, storms, snow and anything in-between - and I most people in the office have no idea I commute by bicycle (though they may suspect it when they contemplate my gorgeous ass)...
    - ubercow13 7y ago
      Even after changing clothes and toweling off not only would I feel gross all day, I think I would get acne over my body if I did this every day. To each their own.
  - dropofwill 7y ago
    I use my commutes as a way to get some hill repeat intervals in and in the summer that means i’m covered in sweat. There are no showers at work, so i do a couple of things to keep clean. * Showering before you leave so that the sweat doesn’t smell. * Chilling our after the ride for a bit to let your heart rate drop back down. This gets you to a point where you aren’t sweating anymore. * Towel off the excess sweat and put on fresh clothes. The only real downside is my helmet messes up my hair.
Xylakant 7y ago
>The CO2 and microparticles are definitely a problem. One which can be addressed by banning non-electric cars downtown. A substantial amount of the microparticles are from brakes and tires, a problem that electric cars don’t really solve. They still have tires.
- cameldrv 7y ago
  They do help with the brakes though. Most of the braking in an electric car is from regenerative braking rather than friction.
  - Xylakant 7y ago
    It’s very hard to find definite stats on this, but the ratio tires:brakes seems to be somewhere between 2:1 to 3:1. So the overwhelming majority still remains. The other problem that remains is that microparticles that have settled will be pulled in the air again by passing cars.
    - cameldrv 7y ago
      Hopefully we'll see some more research on this as time goes on. I strongly suspect that there is a tradeoff between traction and microparticle production. Very grippy racing tires tend not to last long. If you could have some sort of traction assist device like a rubber block on a piston that hit the ground for emergency braking, you could get away with lower traction on the wheels normally, and modern electronic controls could make the whole thing stable and relatively transparent to the driver. First we'll have to overcome the slow motion catastrophe that is gasoline direct injection.
kasey_junk 7y ago
But you get to count the commute against your exercise budget instead of your sedentary time budget.
kaybe 7y ago
Funfact: The pollution inside the cars is even worse (unless you have upgraded the filters).
asdff 7y ago
Where I live it can get so hot in the summer that my AC can't cool the car down if it's been parked outside. Opening the windows doesn't even get all the heat out. Plus I have leather seats so my back fuses to the leather. You can get electric bikes that are assistive, so every pedal you do will feel like you are pedaling downhill even if you are going uphill. Combine that with the sweet breeze lapping at your back, evaporating that back sweat, and I can't imagine a better summer experience. If you need to wear a suit you are screwed either way. Five minutes standing still outside with a jacket on and you will start getting pit sweat. Just walking out to your car will make you sweat.

vonmoltke 7y ago

> But they might spend the time reading or working out they are sitting in a train/metro compartment. That's a big "might" that is conditioned on having a seat and space in which to do these things, none if which is a given. > Bicycles ... are less likely to have accidents (except with cars) After three years as a pedestrian in NYC I have almost been run over by assholes on bikes more than I have almost been run over by assholes in cars. > But infrastructure is much cheaper and easier to maintain then that for cars. How do you figure? Paved streets are still needed, arguably maintained to slightly higher standards than they are for cars. Signalling is still needed, unless you want a free-for-all of bike traffic (which I don't). In general, you seem to be comparing the happy cases of bicycles and public transit to the negatives of cars. It's and unfair and disingenuous comparison.

llamathrowaway 7y ago
> That's a big "might" that is conditioned on having a seat and space in which to do these things, none if which is a given. In the past plenty of people read newspapers while standing on trains. Nowadays we have smartphones and podcasts. It’s even easier. > I have almost been run over by assholes on bikes more than I have almost been run over by assholes in cars. Looks like an argument for better cycling infrastructure. Cars don’t really go wild in cities because they have dedicated road which are not shared with larger, more dangerous vehicles driven by people who are actively trying to cause problems to car drivers. If we have the same level of infrastructure for bicycles then maybe cyclists will stop competing with pedestrians for space. Cycling infrastructure can be cheaper than normal roads because bicycles are lighter than cars. It will also need less maintenance for the same reason. It also takes less space to store bikes than cars.
- anonymou2 7y ago
  No, being an asshole is not solved by infrastructure, what you need is education. Cyclists typically don't believe that they are driving a vehicle (which they are). In fact dedicated infrastructure for cyclists only helps keep the myth that bicycles are not vehicles but some kind of toy and that its operators are not responsible adults but kids incapable of learning.

oarabbus_ 7y ago

You are ignoring heat, cold, rain, etc. A car is a magical piece of insulation from the elements. And depending on where you live that can matter quite a bit during the morning and evening commute.