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A $999 monitor stand is everything wrong with Apple today

78 points by AliCollins 7y ago

goner109 7y ago
Lol. Anyone who defends a $999 dollar monitor stand is a fanboy. Keep drinking that Kool-Aid
zeristor 7y ago
Ironically on an Oath website demanding privacy opt outs to continue. Could HN alert people to these sites, change T&C to remove them?
- Spare_account 7y ago
  FWIW the engadget article is accessible here: https://outline.com/qAas5k https://outline.com/qAas5k
  - zeristor 7y ago
    That wouldn’t be ironic then would it? Are you Alainis Morrisette perchance?
kmlx 7y ago
i own a dell monitor. it comes with the same type of stand, having the same functionalities. and it came with the monitor. what is so different about apple’s monitor stand that warrants $1k?
- DarkStar851 7y ago
  This one comes wrapped in aluminum and has a fancy gif of it's doubtlessly over-engineered tilt mechanism!
- setr 7y ago
  Whats truly odd is that it doesn’t matter whether the stand alone is worth so much — why didn’t they just add the price they wanted into the monitor itself, where price variability is less sensitive? Did they really want $5k pricetag that badly? Instead they’ve created this ridiculous and unnecessary situation. It’s done as if they don’t actually want you to buy the stand.., but I don’t know what the alternative is? Is the mount significantly higher margins?
- Terretta 7y ago
  Can you link to this “same type of stand”, please? It needs to have: - floating counterbalanced vertical positioning for a screen of this weight. - 90 degree rotation Apple first released this kind of mechanism with the Pixar lamp iMac, to float its screen above the hemisphere base; I haven’t seen it for any consumer or prosumer monitor since.
  - kmlx 7y ago
    maybe i'm misunderstanding something, but the following stand [0] appears to be identical to the apple one: - Tilt and lift - Switch from portrait to landscape with bi-directional pivoting - 45-degree swivel (Bi-directional pivoting, tilt adjustment +30° to -5°, swivel adjustment ±45°, 100 mm vertical lift range) [0] https://www.dell.com/en-uk/shop/dell-optiplex-7760-all-in-one-height-adjustable-stand/apd/452-bdfq/monitors-monitor-accessories#polaris-pd https://www.dell.com/en-uk/shop/dell-optiplex-7760-all-in-on...
jotm 7y ago
Wait, I thought people on Reddit were joking about the 1k price tag
- kbumsik 7y ago
  The 1k stand is a real thing. The audiences in the keynote booed when they showed the price tag.
  - MikusR 7y ago
    The booing was especially funny because a large part of audience are Apple employees, put there to clap after every word.
    - LeoPanthera 7y ago
      [Citation needed]
    - SmellyGeekBoy 7y ago
      Are they "put there" or are they just passionate about the company they work for and haven't seen these products as they're in different departments? (Disclaimer: I don't own any Apple hardware)
- envolt 7y ago
  I had the same thought.
bubblewrap 7y ago
I was very tempted to buy a MacBook Pro last year. If the keyboards would actually work, it would have been pretty much perfect except for the price. I have no experience with the touch bar, but it didn't look so bad in the store. I hope they can fix the keyboard issues... (Just to make a counterpoint to the "everything Apple does sucks" tone of the article)
frou_dh 7y ago
Is the monitor actually in the same category as existing "reference" monitors that cost 5 figures? If the answer to that is yes, then the fundamental mistake is presenting the monitor at a show watched by consumers. Because that's just a recipe for bafflement and mismatched expectations.
- guidedlight 7y ago
  Well the actual presentation justified the cost saying it was far cheaper than other reference monitors. Unfortunately for Apple that didn’t make a good heading.
- bruceb 7y ago
  Does 99% of the population know what a reference monitor is and that they can be $30K. No. If you asked most people today what they remember about the presentation, its the $999 stand.
- gridlockd 7y ago
  > Is the monitor actually in the same category as existing "reference" monitors that cost 5 figures? Does the back of that Apple thing look anything like this? https://assets.fatllama.com/images/large/sony-oled-17-trimaster-monitor-76348033.jpg https://assets.fatllama.com/images/large/sony-oled-17-trimas... No? Then it's not in the same category.
TazeTSchnitzel 7y ago
It is very expensive. But it's based on the tried-and-tested Apple pricing approach: as high as the target customer will jump. I assume Apple is trying to milk large business customers for all they're worth, it is the “pro” market after all. The $800 saving by going for the VESA mount is peanuts compared to the overall cost of a fully-configured Mac Pro setup.
- keithnoizu 7y ago
  The end-benefit aspect of consumer price sensitivity.
samdung 7y ago
I have a question. Is the $999 stand a media deflection strategy for a rather mundane WWDC or something else? https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2019/06/highlights-from-wwdc-2019/ https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2019/06/highlights-from-wwdc-...
- 0xADEADBEE 7y ago
  I'm not typically one for conspiracy theories but this thread got tanked at the weekend [0] and I'm not seeing much in the news about the actual story [1]. I'll certainly be watching the company I pay a premium for privacy for with great interest. [0] - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20054289 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20054289 [1] - https://9to5mac.com/2019/05/25/apple-itunes-lawsuit/ https://9to5mac.com/2019/05/25/apple-itunes-lawsuit/
- gutnor 7y ago
  That's the other way around really. The WWDC was quite good, software wise (as it should). All you hear about is outrage about the stand of a pro-monitor outside the budget range of even the most enthousiast consumer. That's how you know it was a good WWDC.
- threeseed 7y ago
  You can't possibly be serious. It is WWDC i.e. a developer's conference after all. And amongst developers and power users it was by far the best ever. Project Catalyst allows you to build Mac apps from your iOS code base with a checkbox and some minimal code. SwiftUI is a true game changer for app developers bringing Flutter style development. iPad OS with long overdue features like desktop Safari with download manager, USB drive support, 9ms pencil latency. iOS with Dark Mode, 2x app launch time, clever use of ML in Photos. Sign in with Apple is an extremely clever way to combat privacy. Apple Maps looked really strong. I could keep going but mundane is not the way I would describe it.
  - spectramax 7y ago
    I also agree. This was one of the best WWDC’s in recent history. No matter what Apple does, it’s a lose-lose situation. HN was complaining for ages about how the 2014 Mac Pro sucked. Now that Apple has hit it out of the park, HN is still complaining about pricing. We’ve seen this since the introduction of iPhone. People said it sucked and it went ahead and changed the world. $499 for a phone!!!!! Are you kidding me? It’s disappointing that HN continues to complain, often without basis. It’s a ritual. A positive comment has to, has to be combated with an opposing view even if it isn’t justified. This Mac Pro is amazing in my view. Design, aesthetics, features, thermal design, engineering, EVERYTHING. But, fuck Apple. The monitor didn’t have a 120hz refresh rate. I’m disappointed. Everyone is doing it, even Asus. How can Apple ignore our needs! For $5000!!!? Are you kidding me? Sigh.
gutnor 7y ago
So much noise about the stand. This is the stand of a $5000 monitor, not just any stand. Any random piece of plastic on a Porsche is more expensive than on a Ford. That shouldn't be the case in a perfect world, but we don't live in a perfect world. People have complained for years that Apple is no pro enough. The Mac Pro and XDR display are so pro-level that the vast majority of the WWDC public was not the target demographic either. Is it too expensive? Yes. Does that matter? No, it's only because it has an Apple badge that we hear about this at all, and people entitlement with Apple is just off the charts.
- nextos 7y ago
  I'm happy that Apple is aiming at the pro market again. I wish their next step was to release more products for programmers, not just designers. For example, big 2k 16:10 monitors have been wiped out from the market as manufacturers can't be bothered to produce panels in that aspect ratio, instead of 16:9. More vertical space makes such a difference. I only know of two old 30 inch models from Dell and NEC that will be soon not possible to purchase. Apple, with their scale, could get custom orders.
  - Theodores 7y ago
    I am not sure that 2K 16:10 30" is the sweet spot for users. Five years ago before 4K worked properly then yes, but not now. 4K on 31" works great, plenty of vertical resolution for code plus the pixels are not too small. Anything larger and you will be getting neck ache peering up/down the screen. Or you would have to push the monitor further away than what a regular desk affords, adjusting font sizes accordingly, going into painful letter box territory. I promise you won't look back if you go 4K on 31", there is no need for a dual monitor setup unless you are editing movies!
    - nextos 7y ago
      But with scaling, are you not simply getting effectively a 16:9 2k but a bit crisper with 4k? I have tried one of those old 30 inch Dells with 16:10 2560x1600, and it's amazing how much nicer it feels than having just 1440 vertical pixels. The aspect ratio is closer to sqrt(2). I guess that's the difference.
askafriend 7y ago
This is a dumb article. The only reason they even broke out the pricing like this is because the target audience is media production houses in Hollywood and other high budget environments where they already have their own rigs and mounts. It’s just a line item on an invoice. This monitor is competing against $25k+ reference displays. And the price is very competitive. The only difference here is that no other company does large scale press events for products meant for such a niche professional audience. MKBHD said it best in his video. If Apple had said “This is a $6k monitor” and then during configuration time provided a stand-less option for $1k less, then we wouldn’t see any of these dumb articles. This is everything that is wrong with journalism today.
- manderley 7y ago
  People keep saying this: Is this monitor actually competitive with $25k+ reference monitors? Because the specs seem to indicate "no" to me, but I'm not a professional user so can't judge what's important. Also, to be able to use your own mount you still need the $200 VESA mount.
  - askafriend 7y ago
    Yes it actually is competitive in many ways. Especially for it’s size. Here are a few other reference displays in the market: https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/buy/professionalvideo/Ntt/HDR+reference+monitor/Ntt/0/ https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/buy/professionalvideo/Ntt/HDR...
  - Keyframe 7y ago
    Close enough to be considered, yes. However, only tests will show since it's not in pro's hands yet.
  - threeseed 7y ago
    So you're not a professional user and you can't judge what's important. But your gut feeling is telling you that it isn't a good deal ? I wonder what someone from Apple Product Marketing would think about comments like this when they would've spent the best part of 5 years working closely with potential customers in the product design and specifications.
znpy 7y ago
As Linus from LinusTechTips pointed out, if they had just bundled the whole thing for 6k with an option to buy the monitor alone for 5k (thus "saving" 1k) people would probably be less angry. I don't really see the point of getting angry however: for once Apple is trying to charge 1k$ extra for a thing that you don't really need and that you can easily and happily live without. Just use a compatible one that you can get for like $100 or less off Amazon.
- manderley 7y ago
  If anything, the $200 VESA mount you absolutely need is more egregious.
  - keithnoizu 7y ago
    but having a non standardized mount is so revolutionary.
    - Yetanfou 7y ago
      Why do you make such a snide remark on a reasonable statement? $200 for a metal cross with 4 screw holes is egregious no matter whether it has a picture of a partly eaten apple on it or not. This is unrelated to any other qualities the monitor might have, it is still nothing but a VESA mount which could be included in the box or sold for a token price. They'd make a profit if they sold it at $20.
      - Dylan16807 7y ago
        > Why do you make such a snide remark on a reasonable statement? Because the snide remark was agreeing with the reasonable statement, and mocking Apple.
        keithnoizu 7y ago
        Yes. It's odd that they wouldn't use a vesa mount if they are targeting this market that often uses custom display mount grids. Or at at least include the bracket in the packaging. You can use a vesa mount and still support custom mounting brackets. Like my Dell 4ks all support vesa but use an alternative hook to actually connect and remove the monitor from the base.
tdy_err 7y ago
I think it's a misrepresented discount. Like, most pros have VESA mounts already. So they discount the monitor... So you don't have to pay for it if you don't need it. But the message about that reason is not there and therefore it sounds like nickel and diming. Instead we should consider it as: $6000 for the monitor with stand OR $5200 for the monitor with VESA mount
- spectramax 7y ago
  Yep, this was poor marketing. Plain and simple.
  - threatofrain 7y ago
    Perhaps poor but also perhaps deliberate to give an unrealistically (because most customers will buy the stand or the vesa mount) low price point.
millstone 7y ago
Yeah decorate it with $29 iPod socks then call us back. The critique of Apple's "design over usefulness" is older than the Internet. I read this exact same article after the iMac dropped the floppy drive.
DevX101 7y ago
The rise of Apple computers latest era started with the ad campaign "I'm a Mac/I'm a PC" which made computing choices a cultural signal, mocking PC users as stodgy and out of touch corporate types. It worked. The timing is right where a computer manufacturer with a solid build at a reasonable price could play this same strategy against Apple. I'm thinking an ad campaign which pokes fun at Apple at being over priced and pretentious, with out of touch super fans paying thousands for a basic laptop and accessories. The cornerstone of the campaign could be this image: https://amp.businessinsider.com/images/5cf8133011e2051fb46d510d-1334-1000.jpg https://amp.businessinsider.com/images/5cf8133011e2051fb46d5... Disclaimer: Writing this comment from a Macbook Pro.
- layoutIfNeeded 7y ago
  Jesus, that image is super cringey. That being said, the problem is that even if another vendor could produce hardware that’s on par with Apple, but at a reasonable price, they would still lack the OS. Windows is still doing 1 hour updates on reboot, and is filled with telemetry spyware... Linux still requires a lot of hacking, often has audio and trackpad issues, etc. Right now macOS is the only sensible operating system for creative pros. Period.
  - xorcist 7y ago
    > Linux still requires a lot of hacking, Sorry, somebody must call out these myths. A less than 20 year old Linux desktop is the most plug and play operating system there is. Stick with supported hardware and there aren't even any third party drivers to mess about it. It doesn't get any easier than that. And hardware support is a lot broader than with MacOS. The reason more Macs are used with the creative industry is mostly cultural. The operating system isn't really a choice for a professional, you choose your tools and use whatever is required to run them. There are some exceptions with products such as Lightworks, but I get the impression that these are sold mostly as appliances. It's different for us who do IT for IT's sake. It's more of a personal choice which desktops we want to run. It's absolutely possible to deploy on Linux and develop on a Mac as long as you don't touch anything close to the machine. You probably need to install things like Brew and keep things updated and reasonably secure, but it's not only possible but something many people find worthwhile.
jpalomaki 7y ago
On the actual monitor side you don’t seem to have much competition on this category. If you want large screen with high DPI, the only ”massmarket” option seems to be the couple of years old Dell 32” 8K display which sells for like $4k. Seems to be all the 5k displays have been discontinued.
- blablabla123 7y ago
  Maybe it's also more to be seen as a reference, the LG models were also quite top notch. Probably better than making/advertising low end reference models. For example it's great that they advertise USB-C so much. This will finally end the mass of mutually incompatible docking station solutions and create less electronics trash. By the way, there is are Dell display stands with USB-C charging, integrated Ethernet, USB-A ports etc and VESA mount. So the stand I got (DS1000) was 200 $ and the screen I got for 75 $...
sudhirj 7y ago
Yes, the people who sit in $1,000 Aeron chairs with $10,000 workstations hooked up to $42,000 monitors and $5,000 speakers (each) in $100,000 - $1,000,000 studios working on movies and songs that make $100,000,000 to $1,000,000,000 each are going to be so pissed off about this atrocious pricing.
- chosenbreed37 7y ago
  I see what you did there ;-)
- maaaats 7y ago
  A lot of professionals not in those categories will probably also be interested in it. I think it's disingenuous to pretend it doesn't matter as only people buying $50k monitors are interested. I could see a lot of designers buying this screen at this price point, that normally have $1-2k screens. Then that $1k stand is atrocious.
- badestrand 7y ago
  But how many people are those? 1,000 worldwide? 10,000? I am sure it is a tiny fraction of the entire audience of maybe a fifty million people who hear about it. So they should do it in a separate event or direct market it to those studios, but the news didn't fit the audience.
  - spectramax 7y ago
    Because WWDC is a conduit for Apple to flex while the whole world is watching. WWDC is a major event, yes for developers but also for Apple in general to release new products and services.
  - muzani 7y ago
    Maybe this exact situation is rare, but the point still stands. For some people the value of a top of the line monitor exceeds its price. Apple is expensive compared to the competition, but still relatively cheap for the monopoly they hold and the value it provides.
- 7y ago
iliaznk 7y ago
Let's wait and see their sales reports and then we'll see who's wrong.
clay_the_ripper 7y ago
If it seems expensive, it’s not for you. Although I am disappointed that Apple hasn’t made a display for “the rest of us”. I’d love an Apple monitor instead of the LG ones but without all the stuff only high end video pros need. Maybe they’ll do one after everyone buys the 6k version already.
z3t4 7y ago
It's funny how monitor stands can cost more then the monitor itself, but it's relatively cheap if it can prevent back/neck pain.
csomar 7y ago
I don't think I'm going to buy one but here is a thing: Is it made of Aluminum or other expansive metal? I bought a desk with Aluminum legs. The legs were empty from the inside. The desk was already expensive comparing to the standard model (It was custom made, I asked for the Alu legs). I asked the manufacturing guy why the legs were not full and he laughed. He said the price will be astronomical if they were full and that the metal is very expensive. I forgot the price but it was definitively over $1,000. The non-Alu version was less than half. So depending on the metal and heaviness of the stand, Apple might not be overcharging on this one.
- michaelmrose 7y ago
  Aluminum is 1.5 usd per lb.
- D_Alex 7y ago
  > Is it made of Aluminum or other expansive metal? There are few metals as cheap as aluminium, actually I cannot think of any except iron. Bulk aluminium costs less than $1/pound. Of course if the legs were not hollow, they might be rather heavy (even though aluminium is quite a light metal)
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- threeseed 7y ago
  The specs say that the stand weights 9.5 pounds (4.3 kg).
- jpgvm 7y ago
  Aluminium is actually rather cheap. Precision CNC machining on the other hand.. not so much. Especially when the design is intricate and tolerances are tight, that means a lot of machine time == a very high price point.
finchisko 7y ago
I wonder how many people complaining about the price of the stand, is even considering buying the monitor. My point is, why to complain about something I'm not going to buy anyway.
Stay_frostJebel 7y ago
The truth is... anyone who's complaining about the cost of the optional stand, can't afford to buy the monitor anyway. I somehow don't think this monitor was designed for viewing and editing iMovie videos. Completely different market.
yoz-y 7y ago
There are tripods that cost way more than this, professional equipment has a markup, justified or not. It's funny how so many people are complaining about something they were never going to buy anyways. At some level it is Apple's fault, they were marketing the "Pro" line to general public for so long that somehow they have set an expectation which makes no sense.

78 points by AliCollins 7y ago

Lol. Anyone who defends a $999 dollar monitor stand is a fanboy. Keep drinking that Kool-Aid

Ironically on an Oath website demanding privacy opt outs to continue. Could HN alert people to these sites, change T&C to remove them?

Spare_account 7y ago
FWIW the engadget article is accessible here: https://outline.com/qAas5k https://outline.com/qAas5k
- zeristor 7y ago
  That wouldn’t be ironic then would it? Are you Alainis Morrisette perchance?

kmlx 7y ago

i own a dell monitor. it comes with the same type of stand, having the same functionalities. and it came with the monitor. what is so different about apple’s monitor stand that warrants $1k?

DarkStar851 7y ago
This one comes wrapped in aluminum and has a fancy gif of it's doubtlessly over-engineered tilt mechanism!
setr 7y ago
Whats truly odd is that it doesn’t matter whether the stand alone is worth so much — why didn’t they just add the price they wanted into the monitor itself, where price variability is less sensitive? Did they really want $5k pricetag that badly? Instead they’ve created this ridiculous and unnecessary situation. It’s done as if they don’t actually want you to buy the stand.., but I don’t know what the alternative is? Is the mount significantly higher margins?
Terretta 7y ago
Can you link to this “same type of stand”, please? It needs to have: - floating counterbalanced vertical positioning for a screen of this weight. - 90 degree rotation Apple first released this kind of mechanism with the Pixar lamp iMac, to float its screen above the hemisphere base; I haven’t seen it for any consumer or prosumer monitor since.
- kmlx 7y ago
  maybe i'm misunderstanding something, but the following stand [0] appears to be identical to the apple one: - Tilt and lift - Switch from portrait to landscape with bi-directional pivoting - 45-degree swivel (Bi-directional pivoting, tilt adjustment +30° to -5°, swivel adjustment ±45°, 100 mm vertical lift range) [0] https://www.dell.com/en-uk/shop/dell-optiplex-7760-all-in-one-height-adjustable-stand/apd/452-bdfq/monitors-monitor-accessories#polaris-pd https://www.dell.com/en-uk/shop/dell-optiplex-7760-all-in-on...

jotm 7y ago

Wait, I thought people on Reddit were joking about the 1k price tag

kbumsik 7y ago
The 1k stand is a real thing. The audiences in the keynote booed when they showed the price tag.
- MikusR 7y ago
  The booing was especially funny because a large part of audience are Apple employees, put there to clap after every word.
  - LeoPanthera 7y ago
    [Citation needed]
  - SmellyGeekBoy 7y ago
    Are they "put there" or are they just passionate about the company they work for and haven't seen these products as they're in different departments? (Disclaimer: I don't own any Apple hardware)
envolt 7y ago
I had the same thought.

bubblewrap 7y ago

I was very tempted to buy a MacBook Pro last year. If the keyboards would actually work, it would have been pretty much perfect except for the price. I have no experience with the touch bar, but it didn't look so bad in the store. I hope they can fix the keyboard issues... (Just to make a counterpoint to the "everything Apple does sucks" tone of the article)

frou_dh 7y ago

Is the monitor actually in the same category as existing "reference" monitors that cost 5 figures? If the answer to that is yes, then the fundamental mistake is presenting the monitor at a show watched by consumers. Because that's just a recipe for bafflement and mismatched expectations.

guidedlight 7y ago
Well the actual presentation justified the cost saying it was far cheaper than other reference monitors. Unfortunately for Apple that didn’t make a good heading.
bruceb 7y ago
Does 99% of the population know what a reference monitor is and that they can be $30K. No. If you asked most people today what they remember about the presentation, its the $999 stand.
gridlockd 7y ago
> Is the monitor actually in the same category as existing "reference" monitors that cost 5 figures? Does the back of that Apple thing look anything like this? https://assets.fatllama.com/images/large/sony-oled-17-trimaster-monitor-76348033.jpg https://assets.fatllama.com/images/large/sony-oled-17-trimas... No? Then it's not in the same category.

TazeTSchnitzel 7y ago

It is very expensive. But it's based on the tried-and-tested Apple pricing approach: as high as the target customer will jump. I assume Apple is trying to milk large business customers for all they're worth, it is the “pro” market after all. The $800 saving by going for the VESA mount is peanuts compared to the overall cost of a fully-configured Mac Pro setup.

keithnoizu 7y ago
The end-benefit aspect of consumer price sensitivity.

samdung 7y ago

I have a question. Is the $999 stand a media deflection strategy for a rather mundane WWDC or something else? https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2019/06/highlights-from-wwdc-2019/ https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2019/06/highlights-from-wwdc-...

0xADEADBEE 7y ago
I'm not typically one for conspiracy theories but this thread got tanked at the weekend [0] and I'm not seeing much in the news about the actual story [1]. I'll certainly be watching the company I pay a premium for privacy for with great interest. [0] - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20054289 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20054289 [1] - https://9to5mac.com/2019/05/25/apple-itunes-lawsuit/ https://9to5mac.com/2019/05/25/apple-itunes-lawsuit/
gutnor 7y ago
That's the other way around really. The WWDC was quite good, software wise (as it should). All you hear about is outrage about the stand of a pro-monitor outside the budget range of even the most enthousiast consumer. That's how you know it was a good WWDC.
threeseed 7y ago
You can't possibly be serious. It is WWDC i.e. a developer's conference after all. And amongst developers and power users it was by far the best ever. Project Catalyst allows you to build Mac apps from your iOS code base with a checkbox and some minimal code. SwiftUI is a true game changer for app developers bringing Flutter style development. iPad OS with long overdue features like desktop Safari with download manager, USB drive support, 9ms pencil latency. iOS with Dark Mode, 2x app launch time, clever use of ML in Photos. Sign in with Apple is an extremely clever way to combat privacy. Apple Maps looked really strong. I could keep going but mundane is not the way I would describe it.
- spectramax 7y ago
  I also agree. This was one of the best WWDC’s in recent history. No matter what Apple does, it’s a lose-lose situation. HN was complaining for ages about how the 2014 Mac Pro sucked. Now that Apple has hit it out of the park, HN is still complaining about pricing. We’ve seen this since the introduction of iPhone. People said it sucked and it went ahead and changed the world. $499 for a phone!!!!! Are you kidding me? It’s disappointing that HN continues to complain, often without basis. It’s a ritual. A positive comment has to, has to be combated with an opposing view even if it isn’t justified. This Mac Pro is amazing in my view. Design, aesthetics, features, thermal design, engineering, EVERYTHING. But, fuck Apple. The monitor didn’t have a 120hz refresh rate. I’m disappointed. Everyone is doing it, even Asus. How can Apple ignore our needs! For $5000!!!? Are you kidding me? Sigh.

gutnor 7y ago

So much noise about the stand. This is the stand of a $5000 monitor, not just any stand. Any random piece of plastic on a Porsche is more expensive than on a Ford. That shouldn't be the case in a perfect world, but we don't live in a perfect world. People have complained for years that Apple is no pro enough. The Mac Pro and XDR display are so pro-level that the vast majority of the WWDC public was not the target demographic either. Is it too expensive? Yes. Does that matter? No, it's only because it has an Apple badge that we hear about this at all, and people entitlement with Apple is just off the charts.

nextos 7y ago
I'm happy that Apple is aiming at the pro market again. I wish their next step was to release more products for programmers, not just designers. For example, big 2k 16:10 monitors have been wiped out from the market as manufacturers can't be bothered to produce panels in that aspect ratio, instead of 16:9. More vertical space makes such a difference. I only know of two old 30 inch models from Dell and NEC that will be soon not possible to purchase. Apple, with their scale, could get custom orders.
- Theodores 7y ago
  I am not sure that 2K 16:10 30" is the sweet spot for users. Five years ago before 4K worked properly then yes, but not now. 4K on 31" works great, plenty of vertical resolution for code plus the pixels are not too small. Anything larger and you will be getting neck ache peering up/down the screen. Or you would have to push the monitor further away than what a regular desk affords, adjusting font sizes accordingly, going into painful letter box territory. I promise you won't look back if you go 4K on 31", there is no need for a dual monitor setup unless you are editing movies!
  - nextos 7y ago
    But with scaling, are you not simply getting effectively a 16:9 2k but a bit crisper with 4k? I have tried one of those old 30 inch Dells with 16:10 2560x1600, and it's amazing how much nicer it feels than having just 1440 vertical pixels. The aspect ratio is closer to sqrt(2). I guess that's the difference.

askafriend 7y ago

This is a dumb article. The only reason they even broke out the pricing like this is because the target audience is media production houses in Hollywood and other high budget environments where they already have their own rigs and mounts. It’s just a line item on an invoice. This monitor is competing against $25k+ reference displays. And the price is very competitive. The only difference here is that no other company does large scale press events for products meant for such a niche professional audience. MKBHD said it best in his video. If Apple had said “This is a $6k monitor” and then during configuration time provided a stand-less option for $1k less, then we wouldn’t see any of these dumb articles. This is everything that is wrong with journalism today.

manderley 7y ago
People keep saying this: Is this monitor actually competitive with $25k+ reference monitors? Because the specs seem to indicate "no" to me, but I'm not a professional user so can't judge what's important. Also, to be able to use your own mount you still need the $200 VESA mount.
- askafriend 7y ago
  Yes it actually is competitive in many ways. Especially for it’s size. Here are a few other reference displays in the market: https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/buy/professionalvideo/Ntt/HDR+reference+monitor/Ntt/0/ https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/buy/professionalvideo/Ntt/HDR...
- Keyframe 7y ago
  Close enough to be considered, yes. However, only tests will show since it's not in pro's hands yet.
- threeseed 7y ago
  So you're not a professional user and you can't judge what's important. But your gut feeling is telling you that it isn't a good deal ? I wonder what someone from Apple Product Marketing would think about comments like this when they would've spent the best part of 5 years working closely with potential customers in the product design and specifications.

znpy 7y ago

As Linus from LinusTechTips pointed out, if they had just bundled the whole thing for 6k with an option to buy the monitor alone for 5k (thus "saving" 1k) people would probably be less angry. I don't really see the point of getting angry however: for once Apple is trying to charge 1k$ extra for a thing that you don't really need and that you can easily and happily live without. Just use a compatible one that you can get for like $100 or less off Amazon.

manderley 7y ago
If anything, the $200 VESA mount you absolutely need is more egregious.
- keithnoizu 7y ago
  but having a non standardized mount is so revolutionary.
  - Yetanfou 7y ago
    Why do you make such a snide remark on a reasonable statement? $200 for a metal cross with 4 screw holes is egregious no matter whether it has a picture of a partly eaten apple on it or not. This is unrelated to any other qualities the monitor might have, it is still nothing but a VESA mount which could be included in the box or sold for a token price. They'd make a profit if they sold it at $20.
    - Dylan16807 7y ago
      > Why do you make such a snide remark on a reasonable statement? Because the snide remark was agreeing with the reasonable statement, and mocking Apple.
      - keithnoizu 7y ago
        Yes. It's odd that they wouldn't use a vesa mount if they are targeting this market that often uses custom display mount grids. Or at at least include the bracket in the packaging. You can use a vesa mount and still support custom mounting brackets. Like my Dell 4ks all support vesa but use an alternative hook to actually connect and remove the monitor from the base.

tdy_err 7y ago

I think it's a misrepresented discount. Like, most pros have VESA mounts already. So they discount the monitor... So you don't have to pay for it if you don't need it. But the message about that reason is not there and therefore it sounds like nickel and diming. Instead we should consider it as: $6000 for the monitor with stand OR $5200 for the monitor with VESA mount

spectramax 7y ago
Yep, this was poor marketing. Plain and simple.
- threatofrain 7y ago
  Perhaps poor but also perhaps deliberate to give an unrealistically (because most customers will buy the stand or the vesa mount) low price point.

millstone 7y ago

Yeah decorate it with $29 iPod socks then call us back. The critique of Apple's "design over usefulness" is older than the Internet. I read this exact same article after the iMac dropped the floppy drive.

DevX101 7y ago

The rise of Apple computers latest era started with the ad campaign "I'm a Mac/I'm a PC" which made computing choices a cultural signal, mocking PC users as stodgy and out of touch corporate types. It worked. The timing is right where a computer manufacturer with a solid build at a reasonable price could play this same strategy against Apple. I'm thinking an ad campaign which pokes fun at Apple at being over priced and pretentious, with out of touch super fans paying thousands for a basic laptop and accessories. The cornerstone of the campaign could be this image: https://amp.businessinsider.com/images/5cf8133011e2051fb46d510d-1334-1000.jpg https://amp.businessinsider.com/images/5cf8133011e2051fb46d5... Disclaimer: Writing this comment from a Macbook Pro.

layoutIfNeeded 7y ago
Jesus, that image is super cringey. That being said, the problem is that even if another vendor could produce hardware that’s on par with Apple, but at a reasonable price, they would still lack the OS. Windows is still doing 1 hour updates on reboot, and is filled with telemetry spyware... Linux still requires a lot of hacking, often has audio and trackpad issues, etc. Right now macOS is the only sensible operating system for creative pros. Period.
- xorcist 7y ago
  > Linux still requires a lot of hacking, Sorry, somebody must call out these myths. A less than 20 year old Linux desktop is the most plug and play operating system there is. Stick with supported hardware and there aren't even any third party drivers to mess about it. It doesn't get any easier than that. And hardware support is a lot broader than with MacOS. The reason more Macs are used with the creative industry is mostly cultural. The operating system isn't really a choice for a professional, you choose your tools and use whatever is required to run them. There are some exceptions with products such as Lightworks, but I get the impression that these are sold mostly as appliances. It's different for us who do IT for IT's sake. It's more of a personal choice which desktops we want to run. It's absolutely possible to deploy on Linux and develop on a Mac as long as you don't touch anything close to the machine. You probably need to install things like Brew and keep things updated and reasonably secure, but it's not only possible but something many people find worthwhile.

jpalomaki 7y ago

On the actual monitor side you don’t seem to have much competition on this category. If you want large screen with high DPI, the only ”massmarket” option seems to be the couple of years old Dell 32” 8K display which sells for like $4k. Seems to be all the 5k displays have been discontinued.

blablabla123 7y ago
Maybe it's also more to be seen as a reference, the LG models were also quite top notch. Probably better than making/advertising low end reference models. For example it's great that they advertise USB-C so much. This will finally end the mass of mutually incompatible docking station solutions and create less electronics trash. By the way, there is are Dell display stands with USB-C charging, integrated Ethernet, USB-A ports etc and VESA mount. So the stand I got (DS1000) was 200 $ and the screen I got for 75 $...

sudhirj 7y ago

Yes, the people who sit in $1,000 Aeron chairs with $10,000 workstations hooked up to $42,000 monitors and $5,000 speakers (each) in $100,000 - $1,000,000 studios working on movies and songs that make $100,000,000 to $1,000,000,000 each are going to be so pissed off about this atrocious pricing.

chosenbreed37 7y ago
I see what you did there ;-)
maaaats 7y ago
A lot of professionals not in those categories will probably also be interested in it. I think it's disingenuous to pretend it doesn't matter as only people buying $50k monitors are interested. I could see a lot of designers buying this screen at this price point, that normally have $1-2k screens. Then that $1k stand is atrocious.
badestrand 7y ago
But how many people are those? 1,000 worldwide? 10,000? I am sure it is a tiny fraction of the entire audience of maybe a fifty million people who hear about it. So they should do it in a separate event or direct market it to those studios, but the news didn't fit the audience.
- spectramax 7y ago
  Because WWDC is a conduit for Apple to flex while the whole world is watching. WWDC is a major event, yes for developers but also for Apple in general to release new products and services.
- muzani 7y ago
  Maybe this exact situation is rare, but the point still stands. For some people the value of a top of the line monitor exceeds its price. Apple is expensive compared to the competition, but still relatively cheap for the monopoly they hold and the value it provides.
7y ago

iliaznk 7y ago

Let's wait and see their sales reports and then we'll see who's wrong.

clay_the_ripper 7y ago

If it seems expensive, it’s not for you. Although I am disappointed that Apple hasn’t made a display for “the rest of us”. I’d love an Apple monitor instead of the LG ones but without all the stuff only high end video pros need. Maybe they’ll do one after everyone buys the 6k version already.

z3t4 7y ago

It's funny how monitor stands can cost more then the monitor itself, but it's relatively cheap if it can prevent back/neck pain.

csomar 7y ago

I don't think I'm going to buy one but here is a thing: Is it made of Aluminum or other expansive metal? I bought a desk with Aluminum legs. The legs were empty from the inside. The desk was already expensive comparing to the standard model (It was custom made, I asked for the Alu legs). I asked the manufacturing guy why the legs were not full and he laughed. He said the price will be astronomical if they were full and that the metal is very expensive. I forgot the price but it was definitively over $1,000. The non-Alu version was less than half. So depending on the metal and heaviness of the stand, Apple might not be overcharging on this one.

michaelmrose 7y ago
Aluminum is 1.5 usd per lb.
D_Alex 7y ago
> Is it made of Aluminum or other expansive metal? There are few metals as cheap as aluminium, actually I cannot think of any except iron. Bulk aluminium costs less than $1/pound. Of course if the legs were not hollow, they might be rather heavy (even though aluminium is quite a light metal)
deleted 7y ago
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threeseed 7y ago
The specs say that the stand weights 9.5 pounds (4.3 kg).
jpgvm 7y ago
Aluminium is actually rather cheap. Precision CNC machining on the other hand.. not so much. Especially when the design is intricate and tolerances are tight, that means a lot of machine time == a very high price point.

finchisko 7y ago

I wonder how many people complaining about the price of the stand, is even considering buying the monitor. My point is, why to complain about something I'm not going to buy anyway.

Stay_frostJebel 7y ago

The truth is... anyone who's complaining about the cost of the optional stand, can't afford to buy the monitor anyway. I somehow don't think this monitor was designed for viewing and editing iMovie videos. Completely different market.

yoz-y 7y ago

There are tripods that cost way more than this, professional equipment has a markup, justified or not. It's funny how so many people are complaining about something they were never going to buy anyways. At some level it is Apple's fault, they were marketing the "Pro" line to general public for so long that somehow they have set an expectation which makes no sense.