4 ms·

That's not how it works: we've build a "winner take it all" or at least a "winner takes more" society... differences get amplified: if you earn 10% less than a

by nnq 7y ago

That's not how it works: we've build a "winner take it all" or at least a "winner takes more" society... differences get amplified: if you earn 10% less than a similarly competent but more socially adept peer today, you'll earn 25% less 5 year from now, maybe 50% less 10 year later etc... Then when you take on a bank credit/loan you get a slightly higher interest option, when you buy a house or land you get a slightly worse deal and so on. Sure some shy people hit jackpots, they invent cool stuff that catches on, maybe the co-found companies... but most don't. It's horribly imho! But this is the truth, this is the society/world we live in :| (See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matthew_effect https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matthew_effect - and I'm afraid might not even be bc of our particular current society, it might come from the very math and physics of how selection and evolution work...)

darkpuma 7y ago
It is how it works. Not everybody is frantically trying to be the next ultra-billionaire. An alien thought for many on HN, I know.
- nnq 7y ago
  "Not everybody is frantically trying to be the next ultra-billionaire" ...as long as things work out for you, yeah, maybe, but when shit hits the fan it might be more about not ending up depressed-to-suicide by being the poorest chap in the neighborhood or not ending up unable to get health insurance!
  - darkpuma 7y ago
    I know this is alien to you, but many people do not care one wit about being the richest in the neighborhood. It is within the capacity of a human being to break themselves free from the "keeping up with the Joneses" race, but perhaps not within the capacity of every individual. If you're the sort of hyper-competitive person who becomes borderline suicidal because their shy personality limits them to an adequate income, then obviously you're going to be in for a rough life. But that experience is not universal. (Also, it's absurd to say anybody who is shy is doomed to have no health insurance.)
    - luckylion 7y ago
      > I know this is alien to you, but many people do not care one wit about being the richest in the neighborhood. There's some middle ground between being the richest and not being the poorest. Most people want to be relatively well off and not struggle to make ends meet, even if, compared to somebody 200 years ago, they are in much better circumstances.
      - darkpuma 7y ago
        > "Most people want to be relatively well off and not struggle to make ends meet," 'Relatively well off' is subjective, and for many people it means "not struggle to make ends meet", e.g. 'adequate income'. There are certainly some paths through life in which a shy person will have difficulty making even a modest income. A shy person trying to work as a salesman would probably find life very difficult. However there are plenty of other sorts of jobs that suit shy people, and provide income that many people consider to be adequate.
- maxxxxx 7y ago
  “An alien thought for many on HN, I know.” My sense is that most people here would be happy with a secure and intellectually interesting life. I think the people who want to be billionaires don’t waste time posting here.
  - amelius 7y ago
    Well, I see a lot of upvotes for posts like "How can I make bitcoin mining profitable?" and "How I made thousands doing random-simple-thing".
  - luckylion 7y ago
    > My sense is that most people here would be happy with a secure and intellectually interesting life. I believe that most here have that. Sure, security isn't objectively measured, you can have $10m an still feel insecure about the future, but I doubt that there are many (relatively) here that don't know how they will pay rent next month.
- mistermann 7y ago
  I think it's a bit more complex than that. In the past, segregation of duties at companies was much more common than it is today. If you were an introverted techie, there was no shortage of jobs where you could focus on that aspect of the job while the majority of the human interaction aspects were handled by someone else.Now, it is much more common that those two jobs have been rolled into one - it's obviously more efficient, and provided there is a ready supply of people that can handle (or more accurately, are perceived to be able to handle) this dual role, it works out great for the employer and arguably the aggregate productivity of society. But what is often overlooked whenever looking at the world through an aggregate lens is the impact at the individual level. Yes, there certainly are some "pure technical" jobs out there, the pickings are slimmer than they used to be, at least for the average introverted technical person (top x-percenters can still make their way just fine, but is x in this context shrinking over time?).
  - darkpuma 7y ago
    You're right that some industries have become less hospitable to shy people. But frankly I've always seen tech as a high-effort/high-payoff sort of industry. Where, even if that meritocratic ideal is far from realized in practice, it's still a large factor in why many people are in the industry. They plan on working as hard as they can to get the best payout they can. This is an inherently competitive environment, which consequently will tend to be hostile to introverts. That's not to say an introvert can't do well in the industry. But if the individual in question is hyper-competitive in addition to being shy, they're probably going to hate the experience. The trait of hyper-competitiveness does not sit well with shyness.
    - mistermann 7y ago
      My point though is that it is becoming increasingly difficult to be competitive at all for those who are shy or unable/unwilling to engage in the theatrics required in an increasing percentage of technical roles. The degree to which this is true I do not know, but I feel quite certain that it has increased significantly.
- HNLurker2 7y ago
  >Not everybody is frantically trying to be the next ultra-billionaire So you say there's a chance?

by nnq 7y ago

darkpuma 7y ago

It is how it works. Not everybody is frantically trying to be the next ultra-billionaire. An alien thought for many on HN, I know.

nnq 7y ago
"Not everybody is frantically trying to be the next ultra-billionaire" ...as long as things work out for you, yeah, maybe, but when shit hits the fan it might be more about not ending up depressed-to-suicide by being the poorest chap in the neighborhood or not ending up unable to get health insurance!
- darkpuma 7y ago
  I know this is alien to you, but many people do not care one wit about being the richest in the neighborhood. It is within the capacity of a human being to break themselves free from the "keeping up with the Joneses" race, but perhaps not within the capacity of every individual. If you're the sort of hyper-competitive person who becomes borderline suicidal because their shy personality limits them to an adequate income, then obviously you're going to be in for a rough life. But that experience is not universal. (Also, it's absurd to say anybody who is shy is doomed to have no health insurance.)
  - luckylion 7y ago
    > I know this is alien to you, but many people do not care one wit about being the richest in the neighborhood. There's some middle ground between being the richest and not being the poorest. Most people want to be relatively well off and not struggle to make ends meet, even if, compared to somebody 200 years ago, they are in much better circumstances.
    - darkpuma 7y ago
      > "Most people want to be relatively well off and not struggle to make ends meet," 'Relatively well off' is subjective, and for many people it means "not struggle to make ends meet", e.g. 'adequate income'. There are certainly some paths through life in which a shy person will have difficulty making even a modest income. A shy person trying to work as a salesman would probably find life very difficult. However there are plenty of other sorts of jobs that suit shy people, and provide income that many people consider to be adequate.
maxxxxx 7y ago
“An alien thought for many on HN, I know.” My sense is that most people here would be happy with a secure and intellectually interesting life. I think the people who want to be billionaires don’t waste time posting here.
- amelius 7y ago
  Well, I see a lot of upvotes for posts like "How can I make bitcoin mining profitable?" and "How I made thousands doing random-simple-thing".
- luckylion 7y ago
  > My sense is that most people here would be happy with a secure and intellectually interesting life. I believe that most here have that. Sure, security isn't objectively measured, you can have $10m an still feel insecure about the future, but I doubt that there are many (relatively) here that don't know how they will pay rent next month.
mistermann 7y ago
I think it's a bit more complex than that. In the past, segregation of duties at companies was much more common than it is today. If you were an introverted techie, there was no shortage of jobs where you could focus on that aspect of the job while the majority of the human interaction aspects were handled by someone else.Now, it is much more common that those two jobs have been rolled into one - it's obviously more efficient, and provided there is a ready supply of people that can handle (or more accurately, are perceived to be able to handle) this dual role, it works out great for the employer and arguably the aggregate productivity of society. But what is often overlooked whenever looking at the world through an aggregate lens is the impact at the individual level. Yes, there certainly are some "pure technical" jobs out there, the pickings are slimmer than they used to be, at least for the average introverted technical person (top x-percenters can still make their way just fine, but is x in this context shrinking over time?).
- darkpuma 7y ago
  You're right that some industries have become less hospitable to shy people. But frankly I've always seen tech as a high-effort/high-payoff sort of industry. Where, even if that meritocratic ideal is far from realized in practice, it's still a large factor in why many people are in the industry. They plan on working as hard as they can to get the best payout they can. This is an inherently competitive environment, which consequently will tend to be hostile to introverts. That's not to say an introvert can't do well in the industry. But if the individual in question is hyper-competitive in addition to being shy, they're probably going to hate the experience. The trait of hyper-competitiveness does not sit well with shyness.
  - mistermann 7y ago
    My point though is that it is becoming increasingly difficult to be competitive at all for those who are shy or unable/unwilling to engage in the theatrics required in an increasing percentage of technical roles. The degree to which this is true I do not know, but I feel quite certain that it has increased significantly.
HNLurker2 7y ago
>Not everybody is frantically trying to be the next ultra-billionaire So you say there's a chance?