4 ms·

Yes, also in my experience "Amazon's Choice" does not protect you from counterfeit, grey market or any other crap items. I wrote to jeff (at) amazon (dot) com

by nextos 7y ago

Yes, also in my experience "Amazon's Choice" does not protect you from counterfeit, grey market or any other crap items. I wrote to jeff (at) amazon (dot) com last week about this, because I got super upset. And some middle manager replied. I shipped US -> UK some underwear from a company that uses no latex (I'm allergic), sends items inside a ziplocked sealed bag and prohibits underwear returns (for hygiene reasons). After waiting for the parcel for 2 days at home, as I was in a hurry to get more latex free underwear, I got an Amazon envelope and the underwear came inside without any packaging and clearly used (!). I was furious. Not an isolated event. A few weeks ago, I ordered a shower with a chlorine filter from Amazon UK. I know this korean brand very well. Again, I got the item without any original packaging, and water inside (!). So I don't trust Amazon anymore for items that are more than $10. People abuse the return policy, and Amazon does not care. Or it's even their business model: Ship it again, selling it as new. Online shopping is getting very tricky. I'd gladly pay more at places that guarantee brand new items. Things are getting really scammy. Around 1/5 of the items I buy online have been opened and used, or have some defects. And I'm talking about expensive stuff and supposedly reputable sellers.

mentat 7y ago
The jeff@ experience is really poor now. There doesn't seem to be a way to request real review by someone who might care about something other than ticket throughput. I tried it when I got a ding against my account because my wife and I had ordered something that in total was over a limit. I was accused of misuse of accounts. Ended up move all my personal data out of Amazon because of it.
- gnicholas 7y ago
  It's been bad for years. I've heard from people who have gotten emails back that said that Amazon is actively pursuing a partnership with a company that they have never contacted (mine). Other people say they just get boilerplate responses that seem to be written by bad AI or non-native speakers who didn't understand the customer email.
SOLAR_FIELDS 7y ago
That’s nasty. They do point out in the article at least two examples where knockoff fashion items were badges instead of the real deal, so it seems somewhat pervasive.
- nextos 7y ago
  Yes, I think their warehouse policies are totally crazy. But that has a little advantage. When they send you used items, it is easy to notice. If you buy at some reputable shops, they know how to scam you and resell used items as brand new, not as refurbished, grade A or whatever, which is illegal at least in EU. For example, I wrote to the customer service of a famous fountain pen shop in the UK asking about return policies on a very particular model which comes sealed with stickers. I was shocked when they said I could not only open the box and inspect the pen, but also ink it and use it. If after a week I decide I no longer like it, I should just send it back. It will get sold as brand new. They only advised me to open the stickers really carefully to facilitate their (scam) task. In fact, if you shop around their website, you'd notice there are practically no refurbished or open box items in proportion to their high volume of sales. If you ask any fountain pen enthusiast, a pen that has been used for a week is not new. Just like a car that has 2000 km in the dial. Good shops even sell models have been dipped in ink, not even filled, at a heavy discount.
  - arkades 7y ago
    As a fountain pen enthusiast, do you mind naming the shop in question?
    - nextos 7y ago
      Cult Pens. The problem is that most manufacturers collaborate by not plastic wrapping and sealing pens. For example, no Pilot is sealed except the 823. I don't think any brands other than MB, TWSBI and Dupont make it obvious to notice if a pen has been opened. Same with good mechanical keyboards. E.g. all Leopolds are sent to EU and US retailers without stickers.
  - NeedMoreTea 7y ago
blattimwind 7y ago
Recently bought a name-brand tool for ~100 € on Amazon and it was (1) used (2) counterfeit.
- sytelus 7y ago
  Looks like there is an inflection point where adversarial activities become more profitable than genuine activity. I wonder if this has happened for Amazon. In this case, I would expect counterfeiters would grow exponentially. That's just the laws of economics.
HillaryBriss 7y ago
> Around 1/5 of the items I buy online have been opened and used, or have some defects. yeah. for some items, i've tried to avoid this phenomenon by ordering from, say, homedepot.com, or Lowes.com, but then it seems like they sometimes just send me items with damaged or blemished boxes, or opened product, which they couldn't sell in the brick and mortar retail stores.
oasisbob 7y ago
For months, the Amazon's Choice for "climbing carabiner" was a carabiner which wasn't even rated or appropriate for climbing. Looking now, I'm surprised to see they've actually fixed it and have chosen something appropriate. [1] [1] https://www.amazon.com/Black-Diamond-Positron-Screwgate-Pack/dp/B01DWBLZ98/ https://www.amazon.com/Black-Diamond-Positron-Screwgate-Pack...
- siruncledrew 7y ago
  There's merchants that even put fake "Amazon's Choice" banners in their product picture to mislead customers: https://www.reddit.com/r/assholedesign/comments/9rawes/fake_amazons_choice_badge_embedded_into_image/ https://www.reddit.com/r/assholedesign/comments/9rawes/fake_... It's also a pretty blatant violation of Amazon's TOS.
  - oasisbob 7y ago
    This one was absolutely real.
- cm2187 7y ago
  I use amazon as much as I can, but I would never trust their supply chain with my life or my health. I don't think I would ever buy such an item on their website, nor anything I would apply to my skin or ingest. Even if they displayed a model suitable for climbing, how would you know it is guenine? The counterfeit problem is real. Like half of their intel 10gbe NIC are counterfeit (I know because a Synology NAS will only work with a guenine model).
  - oasisbob 7y ago
    Agreed. Amazon has lost my trust here. But, that being said... With climbing gear, it seems to be less about counterfeits, and more about shady manufacturers / knockoffs with illegitimate safety certifications. Hot forging takes a lot of work and tooling. I'm not sure there's ever been true counterfeit climbing hardware in the wild.

by nextos 7y ago

mentat 7y ago

The jeff@ experience is really poor now. There doesn't seem to be a way to request real review by someone who might care about something other than ticket throughput. I tried it when I got a ding against my account because my wife and I had ordered something that in total was over a limit. I was accused of misuse of accounts. Ended up move all my personal data out of Amazon because of it.

gnicholas 7y ago
It's been bad for years. I've heard from people who have gotten emails back that said that Amazon is actively pursuing a partnership with a company that they have never contacted (mine). Other people say they just get boilerplate responses that seem to be written by bad AI or non-native speakers who didn't understand the customer email.

SOLAR_FIELDS 7y ago

That’s nasty. They do point out in the article at least two examples where knockoff fashion items were badges instead of the real deal, so it seems somewhat pervasive.

nextos 7y ago
Yes, I think their warehouse policies are totally crazy. But that has a little advantage. When they send you used items, it is easy to notice. If you buy at some reputable shops, they know how to scam you and resell used items as brand new, not as refurbished, grade A or whatever, which is illegal at least in EU. For example, I wrote to the customer service of a famous fountain pen shop in the UK asking about return policies on a very particular model which comes sealed with stickers. I was shocked when they said I could not only open the box and inspect the pen, but also ink it and use it. If after a week I decide I no longer like it, I should just send it back. It will get sold as brand new. They only advised me to open the stickers really carefully to facilitate their (scam) task. In fact, if you shop around their website, you'd notice there are practically no refurbished or open box items in proportion to their high volume of sales. If you ask any fountain pen enthusiast, a pen that has been used for a week is not new. Just like a car that has 2000 km in the dial. Good shops even sell models have been dipped in ink, not even filled, at a heavy discount.
- arkades 7y ago
  As a fountain pen enthusiast, do you mind naming the shop in question?
  - nextos 7y ago
    Cult Pens. The problem is that most manufacturers collaborate by not plastic wrapping and sealing pens. For example, no Pilot is sealed except the 823. I don't think any brands other than MB, TWSBI and Dupont make it obvious to notice if a pen has been opened. Same with good mechanical keyboards. E.g. all Leopolds are sent to EU and US retailers without stickers.
- NeedMoreTea 7y ago

blattimwind 7y ago

Recently bought a name-brand tool for ~100 € on Amazon and it was (1) used (2) counterfeit.

sytelus 7y ago
Looks like there is an inflection point where adversarial activities become more profitable than genuine activity. I wonder if this has happened for Amazon. In this case, I would expect counterfeiters would grow exponentially. That's just the laws of economics.

HillaryBriss 7y ago

> Around 1/5 of the items I buy online have been opened and used, or have some defects. yeah. for some items, i've tried to avoid this phenomenon by ordering from, say, homedepot.com, or Lowes.com, but then it seems like they sometimes just send me items with damaged or blemished boxes, or opened product, which they couldn't sell in the brick and mortar retail stores.

oasisbob 7y ago

For months, the Amazon's Choice for "climbing carabiner" was a carabiner which wasn't even rated or appropriate for climbing. Looking now, I'm surprised to see they've actually fixed it and have chosen something appropriate. [1] [1] https://www.amazon.com/Black-Diamond-Positron-Screwgate-Pack/dp/B01DWBLZ98/ https://www.amazon.com/Black-Diamond-Positron-Screwgate-Pack...

siruncledrew 7y ago
There's merchants that even put fake "Amazon's Choice" banners in their product picture to mislead customers: https://www.reddit.com/r/assholedesign/comments/9rawes/fake_amazons_choice_badge_embedded_into_image/ https://www.reddit.com/r/assholedesign/comments/9rawes/fake_... It's also a pretty blatant violation of Amazon's TOS.
- oasisbob 7y ago
  This one was absolutely real.
cm2187 7y ago
I use amazon as much as I can, but I would never trust their supply chain with my life or my health. I don't think I would ever buy such an item on their website, nor anything I would apply to my skin or ingest. Even if they displayed a model suitable for climbing, how would you know it is guenine? The counterfeit problem is real. Like half of their intel 10gbe NIC are counterfeit (I know because a Synology NAS will only work with a guenine model).
- oasisbob 7y ago
  Agreed. Amazon has lost my trust here. But, that being said... With climbing gear, it seems to be less about counterfeits, and more about shady manufacturers / knockoffs with illegitimate safety certifications. Hot forging takes a lot of work and tooling. I'm not sure there's ever been true counterfeit climbing hardware in the wild.