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This was my issue at the time too.. It was a horribly vague situation. The SEC usually acts but the penalties are usually for 1/100th of the profits. If Kik l

This was my issue at the time too.. It was a horribly vague situation. The SEC usually acts but the penalties are usually for 1/100th of the profits. If Kik loses here they're just going to make them pay $1M 'penalty' and move on.

flyGuyOnTheSly 7y ago
Not according to the page linked to on the SEC website: >The SEC seeks a permanent injunction, disgorgement plus interest, and a penalty. So they're seeking $55,000,000 USD of US investor funds, plus interest, plus a penalty. That would bankrupt Kik and decimate the future of the project.
- asdfasgasdgasdg 7y ago
  https://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/kin/ https://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/kin/ People with skin in the game clearly think it's a big deal. Kin's price tanked by 25% today, and that's after a long decline since the Well's notice. That trading volume is telling too. They turned over about 10% of the outstanding shares. By comparison, a typical day for GOOGL is 0.5%.
shawnz 7y ago
Why should penalties necessarily bankrupt the company? Shouldn't the penalty be proportional to the damage they created by doing things improperly?
- PierceJoy 7y ago
  There needs to be a punitive aspect as well. Simply taking away their profit doesn't discourage this in the future, as being caught isn't certain. I'm not saying the company should be bankrupted, but it has to hurt them enough that they wouldn't want to risk trying again.
  - httpsterio 7y ago
    Hurt them enough so that nobody will try the same again, not just kik. But then again, bankrupting them isn't the wisest choice, if they pay enough taxes and their offences isn't too severe, it would be better to have them around employing people and paying taxes and wages vs it doesn't exist at all.
- tw04 7y ago
  If I have nothing and rob a bank, should I get get to keep half? Why should the penalty bankrupt me?
  - shawnz 7y ago
    No, that's a much different situation. Kik could have acted legally and still made a profit on this idea, although maybe less. In your example, clearly there is no "legal" way in which you could have robbed the bank
    - tw04 7y ago
      In their own words they couldn't make a profit... As for their being no legal way to rob a bank, there are a whole bunch of folks from the 2009 mortgage crises who would beg to differ.
Causality1 7y ago
That's...strange. If I make an illegal sale to one person for a thousand dollars I have to pay back every penny plus a penalty, but if I make an illegal sale to a thousand people for a hundred million dollars I only have to pay back one percent?

flyGuyOnTheSly 7y ago

Not according to the page linked to on the SEC website: >The SEC seeks a permanent injunction, disgorgement plus interest, and a penalty. So they're seeking $55,000,000 USD of US investor funds, plus interest, plus a penalty. That would bankrupt Kik and decimate the future of the project.

asdfasgasdgasdg 7y ago
https://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/kin/ https://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/kin/ People with skin in the game clearly think it's a big deal. Kin's price tanked by 25% today, and that's after a long decline since the Well's notice. That trading volume is telling too. They turned over about 10% of the outstanding shares. By comparison, a typical day for GOOGL is 0.5%.

shawnz 7y ago

Why should penalties necessarily bankrupt the company? Shouldn't the penalty be proportional to the damage they created by doing things improperly?

PierceJoy 7y ago
There needs to be a punitive aspect as well. Simply taking away their profit doesn't discourage this in the future, as being caught isn't certain. I'm not saying the company should be bankrupted, but it has to hurt them enough that they wouldn't want to risk trying again.
- httpsterio 7y ago
  Hurt them enough so that nobody will try the same again, not just kik. But then again, bankrupting them isn't the wisest choice, if they pay enough taxes and their offences isn't too severe, it would be better to have them around employing people and paying taxes and wages vs it doesn't exist at all.
tw04 7y ago
If I have nothing and rob a bank, should I get get to keep half? Why should the penalty bankrupt me?
- shawnz 7y ago
  No, that's a much different situation. Kik could have acted legally and still made a profit on this idea, although maybe less. In your example, clearly there is no "legal" way in which you could have robbed the bank
  - tw04 7y ago
    In their own words they couldn't make a profit... As for their being no legal way to rob a bank, there are a whole bunch of folks from the 2009 mortgage crises who would beg to differ.

Causality1 7y ago

That's...strange. If I make an illegal sale to one person for a thousand dollars I have to pay back every penny plus a penalty, but if I make an illegal sale to a thousand people for a hundred million dollars I only have to pay back one percent?