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Like it, but wish the author had done this without so much braggadocio. It could have been done the same way without so much self-reference and would have come

Like it, but wish the author had done this without so much braggadocio. It could have been done the same way without so much self-reference and would have come off better, IMO.

wazoox 16y ago
Poor boy, he doesn't have a life, never plays a video game, never go to the movies, doesn't have a girlfriend, all he has is the satisfaction to be a winner, let him brag :) I am a winner because I do almost whatever I want, most of the time. I don't leave for the office until 10:30; I keep time to read books, work on Beethoven's sonatas, and run outdoors. I don't give a f*ck about money, rewards and other people opinion. Find your inner winner!
- alexgartrell 16y ago
  Why do people always assume that being impressive and having a life are mutually exclusive? I kind of consider myself something of a winner (top school, top job, blah blah blah), and I've certainly busted my ass to get here, but I've also had a lot of beers, seen movies, dated girls, played [American] football, etc. At the end of the day, I'm unconvinced that you can be a "winner" without doing all of it. I'm not completely convinced that the author is the huge virginal dork you made him out to be, but if it makes you feel better about your inner winner, more power to you, I guess.
  - nostrademons 16y ago
    I found the "bragging" interesting, because I scored higher than him on the SATs with zero test prep, and made All-State orchestra despite having quit violin lessons three years before and barely practiced in the last year. We all have things that we're good at. Mine just happened to be the stuff that looks great on a college app at age 19. Luck has a way of balancing itself out, though. I struggled mightily at fitting in with peers when I was in school, and I've struggled hard to do high-quality original creative work since. Haven't quite gotten the hang of either, while meanwhile there're people who create world-changing products like FaceBook and GMail and Google Maps within a couple years of getting out of college.
  - wazoox 16y ago
    > I'm not completely convinced that the author is the huge virginal dork you made him out to be ... I don't think he's such a dork, just joking, ... FTW ? All of this sounds so young, and that's OK. I attained some "achievements" myself at times but it feels so vain in the end, 10 or 15 years later. I even remember that funny hormonal boost called pride, but now I'm looking down at my former self, I can't even long for this anymore. Maybe I'm just getting old.
  - shock-value 16y ago
    I think it's because people who "have a life" (i.e. are down-to-earth people who get along with everyone and have lots of friends, etc) don't care about being impressive. I mean, do you like being friends with or even being around people whose lives are motivated by the need to impress you? I doubt it. Seems like a lot of people on this thread don't understand that to really feel like (and as far as I am concerned, be) a winner, you need to stop looking for external validation. Constantly allowing yourself to seek it out or fantasize about it is just building a habit of feeling unfulfilled and insecure.
  - potatolicious 16y ago
    > "Why do people always assume that being impressive and having a life are mutually exclusive?" They're not. But they are IMHO highly correlated - I feel like I was a good example of it in high school and the first bit of college. Textbook Asian academic overachiever, below-average social skills, and little of my life that others might consider interesting besides my unrelenting ability to code. It took a lot of work to leave that version of me behind, and much of that came from sacrificing academic performance. Absolutely no regrets about that. That said, I think wazoox was out of line extrapolating the author's life like that. We simply don't know enough about the guy to make a judgment in one way or another. Besides, doesn't his own point about finding your inner winner involve not caring about alleged overachievers?
- robryan 16y ago
  Perfectly valid position to take on things. What I don't like is when, using startups as an example, someone put in regular days and be beaten by their competition who did say an extra 20 hours a week. As long as people know they can't always have it both ways.
jasonshen 16y ago
Hey InfinityX0 - thanks for the feedback. I realize that I came off a little strong in the article but it was to raise a point. I could have referenced more about others - clearly Richard Branson, Lance Armstrong and PG have done abnormal and extraordinary things to get to where they are. But I know much less about them and feel much less qualified to talk about them. I do know that my life has certainly not followed a "normal" path and that when I was younger, I resented that fact. Now I don't. I do know something about winning and I wanted to share that with people.
- matwood 16y ago
  I don't think you came off strong at all. It inspires me to read about others successes and especially how they got there.
  - dpritchett 16y ago
    I concur. The accomplishments mentioned were of the "I was an exceptional high-school student" variety and hence don't necessarily inspire jealousy from an adult. Perhaps if he'd closed with "and now I'm a jet-setting playboy" I'd have been put off.
- kragen 16y ago
  I think you should be honored for your honest reporting of your life's path and your willingness to share your advice, not criticized. We could benefit from having a lot more of people telling their own stories instead of speculating about other people's.
lionhearted 16y ago
> Like it, but wish the author had done this without so much braggadocio. It could have been done the same way without so much self-reference and would have come off better, IMO. You know I see this sometimes and I'm not sure it's a good thing - a person describes their achievements tangibly and concrete, and then someone says, "You're bragging!" I got three thoughts on that - 1. It's a damn shame that people can't talk about their achievements in tangible, concrete terms without somebody whipping out the b-label. I mean, the author just posted his schedule and how much he sacrificed, and shared some encouragement for people wondering if they're not normal, and shared a good quote and a video. That's not empty braggadocio, no way. 2. This creates a strange sort of culture where the high status thing to do is to be all nonchalant and indifferent, and it's impossible to tell who is full of shit and who isn't. Earlier today, there was the "dealing with hostile lawyers" post, and a bunch of people said, "Who is this joker? Don't take his advice." But that joker happens to be a self-made millionaire with a crazy-good track record. But if he mentions "My win-loss record is literally 100% in this area" he'd get hit with the brag label again. 3. When someone says, "you're bragging!" - I think that reflects more on the person saying it than the original author. C'mon guys, celebrate when someone wins. Winning is good. Sheesh.
- nostrademons 16y ago
  Reminds me of the world in The Giver, where bringing up anything outside of Sameness was socially taboo, and even compliments were frowned upon because they might make someone uncomfortable.
- lawrence 16y ago
  It probably comes down to personality type as to whether you are comfortable with this sort of message wrapped in self promotion. I thought it was an effective piece, but it would have been more effective if someone else had written it about him. And by the way, don't hate me because I'm beautiful.
- DevX101 16y ago
  Well said. I actually believe pride is a virtue if there is substance to back up that sentiment. I get a little miffed at the "aww, shucks, it's nothing " mentality from truly talented people.
kragen 16y ago
I don't agree. His own personal experience is really the whole point here. He's stating his credentials, which is important — lots of people are happy to offer advice on how to "be successful" or "win", and that advice is contradictory. As an empiricist, I think it's very useful to examine the results they report from applying that advice in their own lives in order to figure out what its results are likely to be if I apply it in my own. Of course, people's reports of their personal experience are not perfectly reliable, but they're a lot more reliable than their ability to accurately derive explanatory theories from their personal experience. As far as I can tell, the achievement Jason Shen is most proud of is working, as a non-founder, at a six-person startup that sells ads. If you dig a bit, it turns out he also cofounded a microfinance group in 2007 that has lent US$24,000 over the last three years, but says, "Microfinance isn't a panacea. We don't think of ourselves as changing the world. We're just making it a bit chewier." As far as I know, the difference between traditional low-income loan-sharking (you know, payday loans and so on) and microfinance is specifically the intention to change the world. (On the plus side, they do claim they're working to "end poverty" but I can't find any description of their actual program on their website. At first I thought http://gumballcapital.org/challenge/qanda/question/8/ http://gumballcapital.org/challenge/qanda/question/8/ meant they were making high-interest loans to undergraduates at elite US universities, but it seems more likely that the "Challenge" is a way for them to solicit donations, not their actual program.) In short, nothing Jason Shen has accomplished so far in his life will be remembered a century from now, unless he becomes famous for something he does in the future. To me, this provides a very valuable lesson: you can work insanely hard for years and years, practicing and studying 17 hours a day, and even think you're an expert on "winning", without ever achieving anything significant. Hard work is not enough.
- timwiseman 16y ago
  You seem to assume (or at least imply) that being famous and being remembered is the definition of winning, but I must disagree. Winning only means something within context, but as a broad rule of thumb it can be taken as a rough synonym for success in achieving the stated goals. If someone sets out to make the world better, and the world is actually better because of them, even if only slightly, then I would call that both success and winning.
Hubbert 16y ago
I found his honesty refreshing, and didn't see much bragging, only a description of the lifestyle and sacrifices that are necessary to achieve success. Claims of effortless success are a more intense form of bragging: "Not only am I successful, but I'm so naturally gifted that I didn't even have to work at it!" And discussions like this help people feel better about their lifestyle choices: maybe a well-balanced and more relaxed life is a fair trade for not being an Olympic athlete or billionaire.
edanm 16y ago
I found that to be the most interesting part of the post. Honestly, another post saying "you have to work hard" is boring (to put it mildly). But in this article, I actually found: 1. Concrete facts and numbers from a "proven" winner. 2. A very interesting life story. Both of these are traits that too few stories on HN have, for me at least.

Like it, but wish the author had done this without so much braggadocio. It could have been done the same way without so much self-reference and would have come off better, IMO.

wazoox 16y ago

Poor boy, he doesn't have a life, never plays a video game, never go to the movies, doesn't have a girlfriend, all he has is the satisfaction to be a winner, let him brag :) I am a winner because I do almost whatever I want, most of the time. I don't leave for the office until 10:30; I keep time to read books, work on Beethoven's sonatas, and run outdoors. I don't give a f*ck about money, rewards and other people opinion. Find your inner winner!

alexgartrell 16y ago
Why do people always assume that being impressive and having a life are mutually exclusive? I kind of consider myself something of a winner (top school, top job, blah blah blah), and I've certainly busted my ass to get here, but I've also had a lot of beers, seen movies, dated girls, played [American] football, etc. At the end of the day, I'm unconvinced that you can be a "winner" without doing all of it. I'm not completely convinced that the author is the huge virginal dork you made him out to be, but if it makes you feel better about your inner winner, more power to you, I guess.
- nostrademons 16y ago
  I found the "bragging" interesting, because I scored higher than him on the SATs with zero test prep, and made All-State orchestra despite having quit violin lessons three years before and barely practiced in the last year. We all have things that we're good at. Mine just happened to be the stuff that looks great on a college app at age 19. Luck has a way of balancing itself out, though. I struggled mightily at fitting in with peers when I was in school, and I've struggled hard to do high-quality original creative work since. Haven't quite gotten the hang of either, while meanwhile there're people who create world-changing products like FaceBook and GMail and Google Maps within a couple years of getting out of college.
- wazoox 16y ago
  > I'm not completely convinced that the author is the huge virginal dork you made him out to be ... I don't think he's such a dork, just joking, ... FTW ? All of this sounds so young, and that's OK. I attained some "achievements" myself at times but it feels so vain in the end, 10 or 15 years later. I even remember that funny hormonal boost called pride, but now I'm looking down at my former self, I can't even long for this anymore. Maybe I'm just getting old.
- shock-value 16y ago
  I think it's because people who "have a life" (i.e. are down-to-earth people who get along with everyone and have lots of friends, etc) don't care about being impressive. I mean, do you like being friends with or even being around people whose lives are motivated by the need to impress you? I doubt it. Seems like a lot of people on this thread don't understand that to really feel like (and as far as I am concerned, be) a winner, you need to stop looking for external validation. Constantly allowing yourself to seek it out or fantasize about it is just building a habit of feeling unfulfilled and insecure.
- potatolicious 16y ago
  > "Why do people always assume that being impressive and having a life are mutually exclusive?" They're not. But they are IMHO highly correlated - I feel like I was a good example of it in high school and the first bit of college. Textbook Asian academic overachiever, below-average social skills, and little of my life that others might consider interesting besides my unrelenting ability to code. It took a lot of work to leave that version of me behind, and much of that came from sacrificing academic performance. Absolutely no regrets about that. That said, I think wazoox was out of line extrapolating the author's life like that. We simply don't know enough about the guy to make a judgment in one way or another. Besides, doesn't his own point about finding your inner winner involve not caring about alleged overachievers?
robryan 16y ago
Perfectly valid position to take on things. What I don't like is when, using startups as an example, someone put in regular days and be beaten by their competition who did say an extra 20 hours a week. As long as people know they can't always have it both ways.

jasonshen 16y ago

Hey InfinityX0 - thanks for the feedback. I realize that I came off a little strong in the article but it was to raise a point. I could have referenced more about others - clearly Richard Branson, Lance Armstrong and PG have done abnormal and extraordinary things to get to where they are. But I know much less about them and feel much less qualified to talk about them. I do know that my life has certainly not followed a "normal" path and that when I was younger, I resented that fact. Now I don't. I do know something about winning and I wanted to share that with people.

matwood 16y ago
I don't think you came off strong at all. It inspires me to read about others successes and especially how they got there.
- dpritchett 16y ago
  I concur. The accomplishments mentioned were of the "I was an exceptional high-school student" variety and hence don't necessarily inspire jealousy from an adult. Perhaps if he'd closed with "and now I'm a jet-setting playboy" I'd have been put off.
kragen 16y ago
I think you should be honored for your honest reporting of your life's path and your willingness to share your advice, not criticized. We could benefit from having a lot more of people telling their own stories instead of speculating about other people's.

lionhearted 16y ago

> Like it, but wish the author had done this without so much braggadocio. It could have been done the same way without so much self-reference and would have come off better, IMO. You know I see this sometimes and I'm not sure it's a good thing - a person describes their achievements tangibly and concrete, and then someone says, "You're bragging!" I got three thoughts on that - 1. It's a damn shame that people can't talk about their achievements in tangible, concrete terms without somebody whipping out the b-label. I mean, the author just posted his schedule and how much he sacrificed, and shared some encouragement for people wondering if they're not normal, and shared a good quote and a video. That's not empty braggadocio, no way. 2. This creates a strange sort of culture where the high status thing to do is to be all nonchalant and indifferent, and it's impossible to tell who is full of shit and who isn't. Earlier today, there was the "dealing with hostile lawyers" post, and a bunch of people said, "Who is this joker? Don't take his advice." But that joker happens to be a self-made millionaire with a crazy-good track record. But if he mentions "My win-loss record is literally 100% in this area" he'd get hit with the brag label again. 3. When someone says, "you're bragging!" - I think that reflects more on the person saying it than the original author. C'mon guys, celebrate when someone wins. Winning is good. Sheesh.

nostrademons 16y ago
Reminds me of the world in The Giver, where bringing up anything outside of Sameness was socially taboo, and even compliments were frowned upon because they might make someone uncomfortable.
lawrence 16y ago
It probably comes down to personality type as to whether you are comfortable with this sort of message wrapped in self promotion. I thought it was an effective piece, but it would have been more effective if someone else had written it about him. And by the way, don't hate me because I'm beautiful.
DevX101 16y ago
Well said. I actually believe pride is a virtue if there is substance to back up that sentiment. I get a little miffed at the "aww, shucks, it's nothing " mentality from truly talented people.

kragen 16y ago

I don't agree. His own personal experience is really the whole point here. He's stating his credentials, which is important — lots of people are happy to offer advice on how to "be successful" or "win", and that advice is contradictory. As an empiricist, I think it's very useful to examine the results they report from applying that advice in their own lives in order to figure out what its results are likely to be if I apply it in my own. Of course, people's reports of their personal experience are not perfectly reliable, but they're a lot more reliable than their ability to accurately derive explanatory theories from their personal experience. As far as I can tell, the achievement Jason Shen is most proud of is working, as a non-founder, at a six-person startup that sells ads. If you dig a bit, it turns out he also cofounded a microfinance group in 2007 that has lent US$24,000 over the last three years, but says, "Microfinance isn't a panacea. We don't think of ourselves as changing the world. We're just making it a bit chewier." As far as I know, the difference between traditional low-income loan-sharking (you know, payday loans and so on) and microfinance is specifically the intention to change the world. (On the plus side, they do claim they're working to "end poverty" but I can't find any description of their actual program on their website. At first I thought http://gumballcapital.org/challenge/qanda/question/8/ http://gumballcapital.org/challenge/qanda/question/8/ meant they were making high-interest loans to undergraduates at elite US universities, but it seems more likely that the "Challenge" is a way for them to solicit donations, not their actual program.) In short, nothing Jason Shen has accomplished so far in his life will be remembered a century from now, unless he becomes famous for something he does in the future. To me, this provides a very valuable lesson: you can work insanely hard for years and years, practicing and studying 17 hours a day, and even think you're an expert on "winning", without ever achieving anything significant. Hard work is not enough.

timwiseman 16y ago
You seem to assume (or at least imply) that being famous and being remembered is the definition of winning, but I must disagree. Winning only means something within context, but as a broad rule of thumb it can be taken as a rough synonym for success in achieving the stated goals. If someone sets out to make the world better, and the world is actually better because of them, even if only slightly, then I would call that both success and winning.

Hubbert 16y ago

I found his honesty refreshing, and didn't see much bragging, only a description of the lifestyle and sacrifices that are necessary to achieve success. Claims of effortless success are a more intense form of bragging: "Not only am I successful, but I'm so naturally gifted that I didn't even have to work at it!" And discussions like this help people feel better about their lifestyle choices: maybe a well-balanced and more relaxed life is a fair trade for not being an Olympic athlete or billionaire.

edanm 16y ago

I found that to be the most interesting part of the post. Honestly, another post saying "you have to work hard" is boring (to put it mildly). But in this article, I actually found: 1. Concrete facts and numbers from a "proven" winner. 2. A very interesting life story. Both of these are traits that too few stories on HN have, for me at least.