5 ms·

I wonder to what degree the population is aware of the level of censorship that happens on the internet today.

07d046 7y ago
On that note, apparently Instagram in Laos is blocking "liking" posts related to Tiananmen Square. > I’m in Laos, a close ally of China, & whenever I “Like” a post on @instagram related to Tiananmen Square it comes up with a message saying “Action Blocked”. When I switch on my VPN it allow me to “Like” the images. I wonder if China provides internet infrastructure to Laos. https://twitter.com/adamjdean/status/1135809731879088128 https://twitter.com/adamjdean/status/1135809731879088128
- asveikau 7y ago
  This is a big deal if true. I can't imagine they did that without https or other encryption. It would have to be FB doing this.
  - studentrob 7y ago
    I've often wondered how many controls Facebook gives to SE Asia in exchange for being allowed to operate there. Do they get moderator powers or alert systems? In Vietnam about 5 years ago, you could only use Facebook on your phone. It's hard for me to imagine the dictatorships of Cambodia, Laos, and Vietnam welcoming Facebook and allowing the population to freely criticize the government.
  - mac01021 7y ago
    It's interesting that you can view the content, but just not like it.
    - asveikau 7y ago
      I wonder if it's being logged who tries to like and fails, and if so, who has access to that info.
    - PavlovsCat 7y ago
      Seems in line with what is known so far, e.g. https://gking.harvard.edu/publications/how-censorship-china-allows-government-criticism-silences-collective-expression https://gking.harvard.edu/publications/how-censorship-china-...
      - mac01021 7y ago
        That does seem consistent. But why adopt that strategy? Why not pull out the dissent by its roots?
        rellui 7y ago
        They're giving them a delusion of freedom so that most won't realize they're censored or passively accept it. If the government goes all out then it might cause a revolt. Soft tactics are always scarier than hard tactics.
- studentrob 7y ago
  Laos is quite locked down, beyond the internet. You technically can't form a group (e.g. a book club) there without the government's consent, and it is very hard for NGOs to operate. I would not be surprised at any level of internet censorship there, except that Vientiane is within cell distance of Thailand, so maybe that forces them open a little.
Nasrudith 7y ago
Almost certainly aware of something certainly given the sheer clumbsiness like shutting down the stock market when the top numbers come up on numbers which are also coded references to Tinamen Square. You would probably be interested in this article of related weird bypasses and defiance. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grass_Mud_Horse https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grass_Mud_Horse
Mtinie 7y ago
Aware there is censorship at all? From conversations with Chinese citizens living abroad whom I work with, they say the knowledge censorship is occurring is common, but as to understanding what types of information is being censored they only know in general terms. Anecdotally, in China, the younger generations can’t get answers from the older generations who lived through these times because it’s verboten to speak of them. It leads to an (academically interesting) censorship feedback loop. From my perspective it’s hard to know what you don’t know if the Powers-That-Be want to keep it a secret. For example, here in the U.S. I assume we’re reasonably censorship-free, but by no means am I confident we have access to everything (excluding governmental information requiring clearances). I do recognize our various media outlets play a major role in determining what the narrative is and which stories/reports/messages are raised to the level of societal recognition. I know people who consider this to be an indirect form of censorship.
- NotPaidToPost 7y ago
  > Anecdotally, in China, the younger generations can’t get answers from the older generations who lived through these times because it’s verboten to speak of them. Chinese speak very freely about all topics in private and with people they know.
  - xenyal 7y ago
    Also, there are forums in which the Chinese do freely discuss these topics, obviously with to some degree of discretion. But yes, they generally stick to speaking about sensitive topics to verbal conversation since there's significantly less 'keyboard warriors' over there - especially ones with any strong political lean.
    - studentrob 7y ago
      > there's significantly less 'keyboard warriors' over there HN is not blocked in China. Interesting. What is the sentiment when access to a popular website is removed? Does everyone just VPN, or forget about it?
    - 7y ago
est 7y ago
censorship was rebranded as "battle against misinformation" these days.
- Avalaxy 7y ago
  Yea, not really. There is a difference between preventing people from spreading facts and preventing people from spreading blatant lies.
  - philwelch 7y ago
    What’s the difference, really? One truth is that power corrupts. The power to “prevent people from spreading blatant lies” is the power to be the arbiter of truth; it’s naive to think that power will never be abused.
  - 50656E6973 7y ago
    When overlords and their followers believe themselves and to be benevolent moral authorities (as most do), any criticism is seen as malicious misinformation. It also helps that the overlords are in a position to control the flow of information, and thus define what is fact and what is fiction, according to their version of reality.
  - refurb 7y ago
    Not sure there is. You need someone to make the call between truth and lies. That person then has all the power.
  - est 7y ago
    the key is "preventing". Once the mechanism is there, the power will be likely get abused. Also, who decides what's lie? Is providing partial truth a lie? It's all about perspective.
- chapium 7y ago
  to tell a lie to hide a truth
throwayEngineer 7y ago
Look here. Mods shadow ban/hide comments. Censorship is very bad on the internet.

On that note, apparently Instagram in Laos is blocking "liking" posts related to Tiananmen Square. > I’m in Laos, a close ally of China, & whenever I “Like” a post on @instagram related to Tiananmen Square it comes up with a message saying “Action Blocked”. When I switch on my VPN it allow me to “Like” the images. I wonder if China provides internet infrastructure to Laos. https://twitter.com/adamjdean/status/1135809731879088128 https://twitter.com/adamjdean/status/1135809731879088128

asveikau 7y ago
This is a big deal if true. I can't imagine they did that without https or other encryption. It would have to be FB doing this.
- studentrob 7y ago
  I've often wondered how many controls Facebook gives to SE Asia in exchange for being allowed to operate there. Do they get moderator powers or alert systems? In Vietnam about 5 years ago, you could only use Facebook on your phone. It's hard for me to imagine the dictatorships of Cambodia, Laos, and Vietnam welcoming Facebook and allowing the population to freely criticize the government.
- mac01021 7y ago
  It's interesting that you can view the content, but just not like it.
  - asveikau 7y ago
    I wonder if it's being logged who tries to like and fails, and if so, who has access to that info.
  - PavlovsCat 7y ago
    Seems in line with what is known so far, e.g. https://gking.harvard.edu/publications/how-censorship-china-allows-government-criticism-silences-collective-expression https://gking.harvard.edu/publications/how-censorship-china-...
    - mac01021 7y ago
      That does seem consistent. But why adopt that strategy? Why not pull out the dissent by its roots?
      - rellui 7y ago
        They're giving them a delusion of freedom so that most won't realize they're censored or passively accept it. If the government goes all out then it might cause a revolt. Soft tactics are always scarier than hard tactics.
studentrob 7y ago
Laos is quite locked down, beyond the internet. You technically can't form a group (e.g. a book club) there without the government's consent, and it is very hard for NGOs to operate. I would not be surprised at any level of internet censorship there, except that Vientiane is within cell distance of Thailand, so maybe that forces them open a little.

Nasrudith 7y ago

Almost certainly aware of something certainly given the sheer clumbsiness like shutting down the stock market when the top numbers come up on numbers which are also coded references to Tinamen Square. You would probably be interested in this article of related weird bypasses and defiance. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grass_Mud_Horse https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grass_Mud_Horse

Mtinie 7y ago

Aware there is censorship at all? From conversations with Chinese citizens living abroad whom I work with, they say the knowledge censorship is occurring is common, but as to understanding what types of information is being censored they only know in general terms. Anecdotally, in China, the younger generations can’t get answers from the older generations who lived through these times because it’s verboten to speak of them. It leads to an (academically interesting) censorship feedback loop. From my perspective it’s hard to know what you don’t know if the Powers-That-Be want to keep it a secret. For example, here in the U.S. I assume we’re reasonably censorship-free, but by no means am I confident we have access to everything (excluding governmental information requiring clearances). I do recognize our various media outlets play a major role in determining what the narrative is and which stories/reports/messages are raised to the level of societal recognition. I know people who consider this to be an indirect form of censorship.

NotPaidToPost 7y ago
> Anecdotally, in China, the younger generations can’t get answers from the older generations who lived through these times because it’s verboten to speak of them. Chinese speak very freely about all topics in private and with people they know.
- xenyal 7y ago
  Also, there are forums in which the Chinese do freely discuss these topics, obviously with to some degree of discretion. But yes, they generally stick to speaking about sensitive topics to verbal conversation since there's significantly less 'keyboard warriors' over there - especially ones with any strong political lean.
  - studentrob 7y ago
    > there's significantly less 'keyboard warriors' over there HN is not blocked in China. Interesting. What is the sentiment when access to a popular website is removed? Does everyone just VPN, or forget about it?
  - 7y ago

est 7y ago

censorship was rebranded as "battle against misinformation" these days.

Avalaxy 7y ago
Yea, not really. There is a difference between preventing people from spreading facts and preventing people from spreading blatant lies.
- philwelch 7y ago
  What’s the difference, really? One truth is that power corrupts. The power to “prevent people from spreading blatant lies” is the power to be the arbiter of truth; it’s naive to think that power will never be abused.
- 50656E6973 7y ago
  When overlords and their followers believe themselves and to be benevolent moral authorities (as most do), any criticism is seen as malicious misinformation. It also helps that the overlords are in a position to control the flow of information, and thus define what is fact and what is fiction, according to their version of reality.
- refurb 7y ago
  Not sure there is. You need someone to make the call between truth and lies. That person then has all the power.
- est 7y ago
  the key is "preventing". Once the mechanism is there, the power will be likely get abused. Also, who decides what's lie? Is providing partial truth a lie? It's all about perspective.
chapium 7y ago
to tell a lie to hide a truth

throwayEngineer 7y ago

Look here. Mods shadow ban/hide comments. Censorship is very bad on the internet.