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How about giving him a chance because he's Orson Scott Card? Either way, he's done some of my favorite science fiction titles but I mostly have to pretend he d

How about giving him a chance because he's Orson Scott Card? Either way, he's done some of my favorite science fiction titles but I mostly have to pretend he doesn't exist in real life. His politics, with regard to social issues, are just vulgar. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orson_Scott_Card#Politics http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orson_Scott_Card#Politics

astrodust 16y ago
Oh, maybe you mean his extended fawning Hitler biography Ender's Game: http://www.kuro5hin.org/story/2005/5/28/22428/7034 http://www.kuro5hin.org/story/2005/5/28/22428/7034
- Jacquass12321 16y ago
  That link gets stupider each time I have to read it, which humorously enough is each time Card's name gets mentioned in any topic, it's a new abstract Godwin's Law.
  - zacharycohn 16y ago
    This is the first time I've seen that article. Can you explain more? Is there more surrounding this article?
    - Jacquass12321 16y ago
      Read the article linked in that link, even he comes straight out and says "This is in no way a Hitler biography." It's a bad sign when your linked citations contradict your point. The rest of it is an anecdotal and largely unrelated mess, you can scroll farther down for some of the responses to it. I think OSC's political positions are nigh idiotic, and frankly confusing given the very reasonable positions he presents in some of his books. E.G. Homosexual characters in his books are not society destroying monsters. Yet even given that you're still overstepping sane literary analysis when you start the Hitler biography bullshit. Attack the man on his politics all you want, his positions are easy to verify and highly public, just leave the stupid smears to die.
      - Semiapies 16y ago
        "frankly confusing given the very reasonable positions he presents in some of his books" Yes, that has always puzzled me - going from portraying gay characters as alright people suffering from straight society's marginalization to ranting about the Gay Agenda. I suspect it has something to do with a remark he made in the late 80s or early 90s about local church (CoLDS) officials encouraging him to spend more of his pro writing time on religious propaganda or other pro-church material. It was in a non-fiction piece or an afterword in a book of his, and I wish I could remember which one.
      - zacharycohn 16y ago
        Interesting. I didn't read any of the comments, I suppose that would have helped. What I thought was more interesting than the Hitler comparisons were the allegations of ghostwriting. I thought THAT was the real point of the article, that it was clear he didn't even know what was in his books, and when presented with something he definitely wrote, it was incoherent and poorly written.
mmastrac 16y ago
I have the same problem. The author and real-life raving loon are two different people in my head. Ender's Game is still one of the best books I've read and I have to keep this separation to avoid going out and donating the books of his I own. I refuse to read any of his new stuff, but that's probably 50% politics and 50% taste.
rflrob 16y ago
>And subversives can expose diplomatic secrets, critics can expose scientific hoaxes, and governments can track conspiracies While part of me is still hoping he's talking about Snopes, I know this is a reference to the University of East Anglia emails, which were about as much a blow to climate science as the Arsenic bacteria were a boon to astrobiology. I may have to adopt your "pretend he doesn't exist in real life" approach.
- edanm 16y ago
  Since you brought it up, I'm not sure if you're aware of it, but he is a fan of Snopes.
GavinB 16y ago
This bothered me, until I realized that I should be reading books by people with whom I disagree. The oddity of it is, one of the great things about his books is that they show perspectives much more alien than mere human political differences. If you feel bad about supporting him financially, remember that he only gets about a dollar for each book you buy. If you borrow it from the library, your contribution is even smaller.
- Yzupnick 16y ago
  Why should you feel bad about supporting him because he has different political views?
  - skawaii 16y ago
    I agree with this completely. If you enjoy his novels, then read them. No where does it say that you have to agree, or even read, his personal and political views (yes, I realize they seep into his novels, but this goes back to my "if you like the novels, read them" statement). On the subject of his political views, I looked at the referenced Wikipedia site and don't see anything "vulgar" listed there. Perhaps I use a different definition of "vulgar" than others... [http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/vulgar http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/vulgar]
Qz 16y ago
That link and everything associated with it is exactly why I don't give him a chance just because he's Orson Scott Card.
randallsquared 16y ago
You'll be happy to know that his newest, _Pathfinder_, is essentially politics-free. Of course, it also covers ground he's trod multiple times before, but if you like that sort of thing, it's fine. :)

astrodust 16y ago

Oh, maybe you mean his extended fawning Hitler biography Ender's Game: http://www.kuro5hin.org/story/2005/5/28/22428/7034 http://www.kuro5hin.org/story/2005/5/28/22428/7034

Jacquass12321 16y ago
That link gets stupider each time I have to read it, which humorously enough is each time Card's name gets mentioned in any topic, it's a new abstract Godwin's Law.
- zacharycohn 16y ago
  This is the first time I've seen that article. Can you explain more? Is there more surrounding this article?
  - Jacquass12321 16y ago
    Read the article linked in that link, even he comes straight out and says "This is in no way a Hitler biography." It's a bad sign when your linked citations contradict your point. The rest of it is an anecdotal and largely unrelated mess, you can scroll farther down for some of the responses to it. I think OSC's political positions are nigh idiotic, and frankly confusing given the very reasonable positions he presents in some of his books. E.G. Homosexual characters in his books are not society destroying monsters. Yet even given that you're still overstepping sane literary analysis when you start the Hitler biography bullshit. Attack the man on his politics all you want, his positions are easy to verify and highly public, just leave the stupid smears to die.
    - Semiapies 16y ago
      "frankly confusing given the very reasonable positions he presents in some of his books" Yes, that has always puzzled me - going from portraying gay characters as alright people suffering from straight society's marginalization to ranting about the Gay Agenda. I suspect it has something to do with a remark he made in the late 80s or early 90s about local church (CoLDS) officials encouraging him to spend more of his pro writing time on religious propaganda or other pro-church material. It was in a non-fiction piece or an afterword in a book of his, and I wish I could remember which one.
    - zacharycohn 16y ago
      Interesting. I didn't read any of the comments, I suppose that would have helped. What I thought was more interesting than the Hitler comparisons were the allegations of ghostwriting. I thought THAT was the real point of the article, that it was clear he didn't even know what was in his books, and when presented with something he definitely wrote, it was incoherent and poorly written.

mmastrac 16y ago

I have the same problem. The author and real-life raving loon are two different people in my head. Ender's Game is still one of the best books I've read and I have to keep this separation to avoid going out and donating the books of his I own. I refuse to read any of his new stuff, but that's probably 50% politics and 50% taste.

rflrob 16y ago

>And subversives can expose diplomatic secrets, critics can expose scientific hoaxes, and governments can track conspiracies While part of me is still hoping he's talking about Snopes, I know this is a reference to the University of East Anglia emails, which were about as much a blow to climate science as the Arsenic bacteria were a boon to astrobiology. I may have to adopt your "pretend he doesn't exist in real life" approach.

edanm 16y ago
Since you brought it up, I'm not sure if you're aware of it, but he is a fan of Snopes.

GavinB 16y ago

This bothered me, until I realized that I should be reading books by people with whom I disagree. The oddity of it is, one of the great things about his books is that they show perspectives much more alien than mere human political differences. If you feel bad about supporting him financially, remember that he only gets about a dollar for each book you buy. If you borrow it from the library, your contribution is even smaller.

Yzupnick 16y ago
Why should you feel bad about supporting him because he has different political views?
- skawaii 16y ago
  I agree with this completely. If you enjoy his novels, then read them. No where does it say that you have to agree, or even read, his personal and political views (yes, I realize they seep into his novels, but this goes back to my "if you like the novels, read them" statement). On the subject of his political views, I looked at the referenced Wikipedia site and don't see anything "vulgar" listed there. Perhaps I use a different definition of "vulgar" than others... [http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/vulgar http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/vulgar]

Qz 16y ago

That link and everything associated with it is exactly why I don't give him a chance just because he's Orson Scott Card.

randallsquared 16y ago

You'll be happy to know that his newest, _Pathfinder_, is essentially politics-free. Of course, it also covers ground he's trod multiple times before, but if you like that sort of thing, it's fine. :)