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I disagree that it’s always been this way. I bought a G4 tower when I was in college and it sure as heck wasn’t $6,000 back then. This is the only traditional

I disagree that it’s always been this way. I bought a G4 tower when I was in college and it sure as heck wasn’t $6,000 back then. This is the only traditional desktop computer that Apple sells, so it’s disappointing that everybody outside of movie studio employees has to fall back to an iMac or a Windows/Linux machine.

rkho 7y ago
The new Mac Minis are really powerful. What doesn't it have that you're hoping for?
- matthewmacleod 7y ago
  GPU for me. I’d snap one up if it had a GPU in line with that in the MacBook Pro. I don’t particularly want a large external GPU hooked up over Thunderbolt.
  - aczerepinski 7y ago
    Same. The short height of the mini is in no way a feature for me, but being configurable with a graphics card sure would be.
- linguae 7y ago
  - The new Mac Mini has soldered storage. This precludes upgrading storage, replacing internal storage (which is important for preserving data due to a motherboard failure), and adding additional internal storage. - Apple finally made the RAM on the new Mac Mini upgradeable, but it is not user-serviceable; you have to get the RAM installed by an Apple-authorized repair center in order for the warranty to stay valid on the Mac Mini. The same holds true for the iMac Pro. - The Mac Mini lacks expansion slots. All expansion must be done externally using Thunderbolt or USB-3. Until the 2013 Mac Pro was released, Apple has sold an entry-level Power Mac or Mac Pro model for around $2,500 in inflation-adjusted currency that was user-serviceable and has expansion slots. The 2013 Mac Pro was still user-serviceable, but it lacked expansion slots. Now Apple is finally selling a user-serviceable, expandable Mac, but at prices that are beyond what many users can afford. There are no user-serviceable, expandable Macs that cost under $5,999.
  - pfranz 7y ago
    > - Apple finally made the RAM on the new Mac Mini upgradeable, but it is not user-serviceable; you have to get the RAM installed by an Apple-authorized repair center in order for the warranty to stay valid on the Mac Mini. The same holds true for the iMac Pro. I'm pretty confident this isn't legal in the US. Under a law from the 70's the FTC released a letter reiterating this fact last year. Apple and other companies have made this purposefully vague as well as fighting right to repair laws. > There are no user-serviceable, expandable Macs that cost under... This has been a gripe against Apple for at least 20 years.
  - Spooky23 7y ago
    You can replace the memory yourself, but you must put OEM memory in if you bring it in for service.
  - vondur 7y ago
    The memory on the iMac Pro is user upgradeable, and I believe it’s the case with the new Mac Mini. One big strike against the new Mac Mini is how much the higher end CPUs are thermally throttled. Not good for a relatively expensive machine.
- Rebelgecko 7y ago
  Upgrade and repairability
seanmcdirmid 7y ago
I don't think there is much demand anymore for a Mac tower in the consumer space; actually, I don't think towers have been a popular option in the consumer space for a long time for any platform.
- chaostheory 7y ago
  Yes because: 1. Apple first failed to update the cheese grater line for years consecutively 2. Then Apple's redesign of the Mac Pro transformed it into a larger Mac Mini trashcan which wasn't really expandable compared to the original cheese grater line. No one asked for that. There is evidence for demand for a reasonably priced Mac Pro Tower if you look at the Hackintosh community and eBay sales of older cheese grater Mac Pros, but Apple keeps refusing to meet demand.
  - seanmcdirmid 7y ago
    The cheese grater was already pro, not consumer. The last consumer tower was probably the G4 era, afterwards the iMac, mini, and laptops took over consumer completely, leaving towers to the pro market. There is "niche" demand for consumer towers, sure, but I don't think it would be worth Apple's effort. The iMac 5K is really good, and its even the cheapest option to get one of the best displays out there.
    - chaostheory 7y ago
      Yes the cheese grater was Pro and it was at a reasonable price starting at $2k- 3k depending on the model. Yes that’s adjusted for inflation.
      - seanmcdirmid 7y ago
        $2400 in 2006 is just over $3k in 2019. Not sure if that is consumer, more like a higher end iMac sans display.
        7y ago
jrochkind1 7y ago
Just as I'm curious what prices really were. don't know exactly what Gr tower line you are talking about, but according to https://www.macstories.net/mac/the-power-mac-g4-line/ https://www.macstories.net/mac/the-power-mac-g4-line/ , the first reasonable powermac G4 was summer 2000, and > Prices ranged from $1,599 to $3,499, According to one online inflation calculator, $1599 in 2000 dollars is $2,372.95 in 2019 dollars. and $3499 is $5,192.58. So, I guess, yeah.I do recall them seeming awfully expensive. I agree this new release seems awfully awfully expensive.
- wuliwong 7y ago
  It's unclear to me if you were agreeing or disagreeing but the upcoming mac pro entry model is going to be more than double the price of the entry level G4 towers after adjusting for inflation. So the original commenter seems to be correct, they used to be more affordable.
- ken 7y ago
  They got even cheaper than that. In 2003, the Power Mac base price was $1499. In 2019 dollars, that's only $2082. By 2012, the entry level Mac tower was up to $2499. Since 2013, the cheapest Mac Pro (no PCI/E slots) has been $2999. The 2019 model is literally more than twice as expensive as the 2013, which in turn was already the previous most-expensive entry-level Mac workstation ever. PowerMac/MacPro prices have always seemed steep, but this is a new ballgame even for Apple.
  - derefr 7y ago
    The difference is that the iMac Pro and Mac Mini didn’t exist to segment that market back then; all the tiers of professional hardware were rolled into just “the Mac Pro.” Roll those back in and the pricing tiers look more equivalent.
    - xienze 7y ago
      The Mac Mini has been around since 2005...
nsxwolf 7y ago
I paid under 3k for my PowerMac G5, ~3300 for the original Mac Pro after that, then 3k for my current 4 core 2013 Mac Pro. This is definitely a course change on the entry level pricing.
brandonmenc 7y ago
> I bought a G4 tower when I was in college and it sure as heck wasn’t $6,000 back then. No, but an entry-level SGI Octane was like TWENTY GRAND back then. The Mac Pro is what occupies that space today.

rkho 7y ago

The new Mac Minis are really powerful. What doesn't it have that you're hoping for?

matthewmacleod 7y ago
GPU for me. I’d snap one up if it had a GPU in line with that in the MacBook Pro. I don’t particularly want a large external GPU hooked up over Thunderbolt.
- aczerepinski 7y ago
  Same. The short height of the mini is in no way a feature for me, but being configurable with a graphics card sure would be.
linguae 7y ago
- The new Mac Mini has soldered storage. This precludes upgrading storage, replacing internal storage (which is important for preserving data due to a motherboard failure), and adding additional internal storage. - Apple finally made the RAM on the new Mac Mini upgradeable, but it is not user-serviceable; you have to get the RAM installed by an Apple-authorized repair center in order for the warranty to stay valid on the Mac Mini. The same holds true for the iMac Pro. - The Mac Mini lacks expansion slots. All expansion must be done externally using Thunderbolt or USB-3. Until the 2013 Mac Pro was released, Apple has sold an entry-level Power Mac or Mac Pro model for around $2,500 in inflation-adjusted currency that was user-serviceable and has expansion slots. The 2013 Mac Pro was still user-serviceable, but it lacked expansion slots. Now Apple is finally selling a user-serviceable, expandable Mac, but at prices that are beyond what many users can afford. There are no user-serviceable, expandable Macs that cost under $5,999.
- pfranz 7y ago
  > - Apple finally made the RAM on the new Mac Mini upgradeable, but it is not user-serviceable; you have to get the RAM installed by an Apple-authorized repair center in order for the warranty to stay valid on the Mac Mini. The same holds true for the iMac Pro. I'm pretty confident this isn't legal in the US. Under a law from the 70's the FTC released a letter reiterating this fact last year. Apple and other companies have made this purposefully vague as well as fighting right to repair laws. > There are no user-serviceable, expandable Macs that cost under... This has been a gripe against Apple for at least 20 years.
- Spooky23 7y ago
  You can replace the memory yourself, but you must put OEM memory in if you bring it in for service.
- vondur 7y ago
  The memory on the iMac Pro is user upgradeable, and I believe it’s the case with the new Mac Mini. One big strike against the new Mac Mini is how much the higher end CPUs are thermally throttled. Not good for a relatively expensive machine.
Rebelgecko 7y ago
Upgrade and repairability

seanmcdirmid 7y ago

I don't think there is much demand anymore for a Mac tower in the consumer space; actually, I don't think towers have been a popular option in the consumer space for a long time for any platform.

chaostheory 7y ago
Yes because: 1. Apple first failed to update the cheese grater line for years consecutively 2. Then Apple's redesign of the Mac Pro transformed it into a larger Mac Mini trashcan which wasn't really expandable compared to the original cheese grater line. No one asked for that. There is evidence for demand for a reasonably priced Mac Pro Tower if you look at the Hackintosh community and eBay sales of older cheese grater Mac Pros, but Apple keeps refusing to meet demand.
- seanmcdirmid 7y ago
  The cheese grater was already pro, not consumer. The last consumer tower was probably the G4 era, afterwards the iMac, mini, and laptops took over consumer completely, leaving towers to the pro market. There is "niche" demand for consumer towers, sure, but I don't think it would be worth Apple's effort. The iMac 5K is really good, and its even the cheapest option to get one of the best displays out there.
  - chaostheory 7y ago
    Yes the cheese grater was Pro and it was at a reasonable price starting at $2k- 3k depending on the model. Yes that’s adjusted for inflation.
    - seanmcdirmid 7y ago
      $2400 in 2006 is just over $3k in 2019. Not sure if that is consumer, more like a higher end iMac sans display.
      - 7y ago

jrochkind1 7y ago

Just as I'm curious what prices really were. don't know exactly what Gr tower line you are talking about, but according to https://www.macstories.net/mac/the-power-mac-g4-line/ https://www.macstories.net/mac/the-power-mac-g4-line/ , the first reasonable powermac G4 was summer 2000, and > Prices ranged from $1,599 to $3,499, According to one online inflation calculator, $1599 in 2000 dollars is $2,372.95 in 2019 dollars. and $3499 is $5,192.58. So, I guess, yeah.I do recall them seeming awfully expensive. I agree this new release seems awfully awfully expensive.

wuliwong 7y ago
It's unclear to me if you were agreeing or disagreeing but the upcoming mac pro entry model is going to be more than double the price of the entry level G4 towers after adjusting for inflation. So the original commenter seems to be correct, they used to be more affordable.
ken 7y ago
They got even cheaper than that. In 2003, the Power Mac base price was $1499. In 2019 dollars, that's only $2082. By 2012, the entry level Mac tower was up to $2499. Since 2013, the cheapest Mac Pro (no PCI/E slots) has been $2999. The 2019 model is literally more than twice as expensive as the 2013, which in turn was already the previous most-expensive entry-level Mac workstation ever. PowerMac/MacPro prices have always seemed steep, but this is a new ballgame even for Apple.
- derefr 7y ago
  The difference is that the iMac Pro and Mac Mini didn’t exist to segment that market back then; all the tiers of professional hardware were rolled into just “the Mac Pro.” Roll those back in and the pricing tiers look more equivalent.
  - xienze 7y ago
    The Mac Mini has been around since 2005...

nsxwolf 7y ago

I paid under 3k for my PowerMac G5, ~3300 for the original Mac Pro after that, then 3k for my current 4 core 2013 Mac Pro. This is definitely a course change on the entry level pricing.

brandonmenc 7y ago

> I bought a G4 tower when I was in college and it sure as heck wasn’t $6,000 back then. No, but an entry-level SGI Octane was like TWENTY GRAND back then. The Mac Pro is what occupies that space today.