7 ms·

Nice to see a new Mac Pro, but no one has mentioned price. The "entry level" Mac Pro from 2006 was $2199 and $2999 in 2013 (the last update). Even the top-of-th

by bt3 7y ago

Nice to see a new Mac Pro, but no one has mentioned price. The "entry level" Mac Pro from 2006 was $2199 and $2999 in 2013 (the last update). Even the top-of-the-line "trashcan" Mac Pro was ~$6500 with 12 cores. I don't doubt the hardware is top-notch again, but an 8-core machine (I get it's Xeon), with a 256GB SSD and 32GB of RAM with a nice graphics card for $6000 is ludicrous. Is the new case and a "revive" worth the 100% price increase for a base model? Or has Apple come to revelation that pro's will pay any price? Sidenote - 6k monitor is beautiful but $5000? The live stream I'm following jokingly mentioned the stand is $1000 extra (is that true?). Have we truly moved into $1/ pixel territory?

mikestew 7y ago
The live stream I'm following jokingly mentioned the stand is $1000 extra (is that true?). Yup, it was on the screen and the presenter spoke the number without even cracking a smile. Must have practiced in the bathroom mirror for hours to pull that off.
- ryanmcbride 7y ago
  Moved on fast to squash those grumbles that were rising
- saagarjha 7y ago
  There was an audible gasp from the audience after hearing that price.
- ordinaryradical 7y ago
  I feel like the misguided dongle philosophy has somehow been extended all the way to this. The idea that the stand is a separate price is just crazy to me, that it's a thousand dollars, absurd.
- cs02rm0 7y ago
  Somehow I doubt they'll be selling $1000 monitor stands in a few years. I can't quite believe they were saying someone would turn one of the monitors 90 degrees to write code. Why anyone would spend $6k on a monitor to write code is beyond me.
  - thefounder 7y ago
    I believe that girl never wrote a line of code. Why would you use a vertical monitor to write code???
    - bradlys 7y ago
      More lines viewable at a time. Most places have line length limits and they're well below full screen width. There are people I've worked with who enjoy reading and writing code on a vertical orientation.
      - thefounder 7y ago
        That's something new to me. I though people want more horizontal tabs/columns. Scanning a very "tall" display(like this 32" one) doesn't seem very comfortable to me.
        lloeki 7y ago
        I loved my single 21:9 LG display. I hated that it was not HiDPI by a long shot.
        atq2119 7y ago
        The ability to understand code at a macro level improves the more code you are able to see at once, because scanning with your eyes is more efficient than scrolling can ever be. So using a portrait orientation for your monitor does make sense.
        Simon_says 7y ago
        Maybe you're just not used to it?
    - steve_adams_86 7y ago
      I love stacking terminals in a vertical monitor. I usually keep some code in tall columns as well if the project has longer files. It's great when it suits what you're doing, but I had my doubts like you as well.
misnome 7y ago
> Sidenote - 6k monitor is beautiful but $5000? The live stream I'm following jokingly mentioned the stand is $1000 extra (is that true?). Have we truly moved into $1/ pixel territory? To be fair that's 6kx3k. So $1 buys 3000 pixels (more if you use the cheaper VESA stand option). The sound in the auditorium when $1000 for the stand was announced was priceless.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
pastor_elm 7y ago
Apple is a trillion dollar company. You don't get their peddling budget computers.
- saagarjha 7y ago
  Apple makes most of their money off of iPhone.
slg 7y ago
> Or has Apple come to revelation that pro's will pay any price? Hasn't that always been the case? The price is surprising because Apple had basically abandoned the pro audience and has even started losing some of the prosumer audience with all the keyboard/touchbar shenanigans on the MacBook Pro. But the "pro" in the Pro lineup did have meaning at one point and this appears to be a return to that. It is clearly an attempt to recapture that pro market and the Mac Pro isn't the least bit targeted at the average home user. Although I am sure plenty of home users will buy the things just because.
idlewords 7y ago
My understanding is the monitor is a genuine technological marvel that competes with pro-grade stuff that costs in the tens of thousands of dollars. The $1000 stand is pretty funny, though.
- freehunter 7y ago
  I think you're right on the comparison for the monitor. Dell has a monitor that's nowhere near as bright with nowhere near as good of a contrast ratio for about the same price as Apple's: https://www.dell.com/en-us/work/shop/dell-ultrasharp-32-8k-monitor-up3218k/apd/210-alez/monitors-monitor-accessories https://www.dell.com/en-us/work/shop/dell-ultrasharp-32-8k-m...
  - thefounder 7y ago
    You forgot to say that Dell is an 8k monitor(Apple is only 6k), 1-2 years old, cheaper by far than Apple's pro display. Don't mention the stand.
    - freehunter 7y ago
      But I did say far less bright with far lower contrast ratio, which matters more for the audience they targeted in the keynote.
      - thefounder 7y ago
        What about Sony's infinite contrast? I wonder why they didn't mention it...at best this is an overpriced monitor with different trade-offs(i.e lower resolution than dell, hdr, higher price etc) but has little to do with Sony pro displays. They compare a consumer led display with a pro oled to justify the ridiculous price.
        freehunter 7y ago
        Sony's "infinite contrast" is on their OLED screens and is a marketing gimmick for consumers that graphic professionals can see straight through. Plus OLED has problems with accurate color representation over time along with screen burn-in. The infinite contrast talks about OLED's ability to turn off pixels if they're black, but if they're very very dark grey the argument falls to pieces. OLED is great for consumers. This isn't a consumer device. Dell's screen is great for the existing graphic design world. Apple's new screen is better. I'm honestly baffled by your statement that this is a consumer display. I have absolutely no idea what gave you that opinion, especially considering the price. It absolutely is not. You can make the argument that the stand and VESA mount are overpriced (they are) but the monitor itself exists in a world that desperately needs it.
ceejayoz 7y ago
The $1,000 stand was not a joke. https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2019/06/apple-unveils-powerful-all-new-mac-pro-and-groundbreaking-pro-display-xdr/ https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2019/06/apple-unveils-powerfu... > The all-new Mac Pro starts at $5,999 and will be available to order in the fall. Pro Display XDR starts at $4,999, the Pro Stand is $999 and the VESA Mount Adapter is $199.
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
golergka 7y ago
> an 8-core machine (I get it's Xeon), with a 256GB SSD and 32GB of RAM with a nice graphics card for $6000 is ludicrous Machine on itself may be, but the software? Let me offer from music production perspective. For instance, Logic Pro X costs $200 - and has more value than even the fullest edition of Ableton Live (at least, for me), which costs $800. And Windows Pro is $200 against a free OS X, so the cost difference just for audio production is $800 already. And if you compare the quality of ASIO4ALL with it's OS X counterpart, I'm not sure how to put monetary value on it, but it just shows that it's not about the hardware... I have recently outgrown my 2014 macbook and didn't want to buy neither a modern one, nor a trashcan mac, so I moved to Windows machine. Now, with modular Mac Pro design back, I know that I can finally build the workhorse I want.
toyg 7y ago
Apple hardware has always been ludicrously overpriced compared to competition, nothing new there. They charge what the market will bear. You don’t complain about the price of a Lamborghini, you either pay it or you don’t. The 1k stand is funny though. It’s the hardware equivalent of $200 t-shirts (yes, they exist - go check the various Prada, YSL etc): you know it’s not worth it, they know it’s not worth it, but you buy it anyway just so that people will know you have so much money that you can overpay for trash.
- odshoifsdhfs 7y ago
  Don't want to be rude, but 200 dollar tshirts are nothing. Get to 'boutique' italian makers (only I know is Brunello Cuccinelli) and you will be paying 500+ for a simple tshirt, 1300 for a 'long sleeve tshirt' and the likes). (I am not trying to be rude, but last few years being involved with the very rich, a lot of the brands they buy general people don't even know or heard of them vs prada/gucci/whatever on the hiphop videos) [0] https://shop.brunellocucinelli.com/en-pt/woman/collection/topwear/top-192MF948DA100.html https://shop.brunellocucinelli.com/en-pt/woman/collection/to... [1] https://shop.brunellocucinelli.com/en-pt/woman/collection/topwear/long-sleeve-t-shirt-192MF948DA902.html https://shop.brunellocucinelli.com/en-pt/woman/collection/to...
ken 7y ago
> I don't doubt the hardware is top-notch again, but an 8-core machine (I get it's Xeon), with a 256GB SSD and 32GB of RAM with a nice graphics card for $6000 is ludicrous. I tried pricing out a Dell workstation with comparable features (though still not as fast in any spec), and it came to just under $8000. > Have we truly moved into $1/ pixel territory? 6K means 6000 pixels wide, not total. It's roughly $1 per column of 3384 pixels. For high end displays, that price is nothing new. In 2004, the Apple Cinema Display was 2560x1600 at $3299 (accounting for inflation: $4463 in 2019 dollars), or $1.29 (2019: $1.74) per column of 1600 pixels. Over the 6 years that Apple sold it, the price dropped from $3299 to $1799.
sprafa 7y ago
The screen is very competitive, comparable screens in the audiovisual industry regularly go for 10,000$ or more. The screen actually looks like a bargain tbh knowing about HDR 4K screens im not even sure there’s anything in the same ballpark. And knowing Apple I expect them to have done this well - iPads were known around pro audiovisual production circles as one of the few consumer level screens where you could approve final Color correction on - because they were so Color accurate they were up there with pro screens. In the Mac Pro I have no idea but in audiovisual again there’s a reason Macs are king - ProRes. Doesn’t matter how much thy price their pro machines, production companies around the world will gobble them up because they still own the most efficient video codec known to the industry - very fast encoding times and excellent compression. Most movies and TV shows you watch today are still recorded in ProRes in high-level low-compression modes such as 4444 or XR.

by bt3 7y ago

mikestew 7y ago

The live stream I'm following jokingly mentioned the stand is $1000 extra (is that true?). Yup, it was on the screen and the presenter spoke the number without even cracking a smile. Must have practiced in the bathroom mirror for hours to pull that off.

ryanmcbride 7y ago
Moved on fast to squash those grumbles that were rising
saagarjha 7y ago
There was an audible gasp from the audience after hearing that price.
ordinaryradical 7y ago
I feel like the misguided dongle philosophy has somehow been extended all the way to this. The idea that the stand is a separate price is just crazy to me, that it's a thousand dollars, absurd.
cs02rm0 7y ago
Somehow I doubt they'll be selling $1000 monitor stands in a few years. I can't quite believe they were saying someone would turn one of the monitors 90 degrees to write code. Why anyone would spend $6k on a monitor to write code is beyond me.
- thefounder 7y ago
  I believe that girl never wrote a line of code. Why would you use a vertical monitor to write code???
  - bradlys 7y ago
    More lines viewable at a time. Most places have line length limits and they're well below full screen width. There are people I've worked with who enjoy reading and writing code on a vertical orientation.
    - thefounder 7y ago
      That's something new to me. I though people want more horizontal tabs/columns. Scanning a very "tall" display(like this 32" one) doesn't seem very comfortable to me.
      - lloeki 7y ago
        I loved my single 21:9 LG display. I hated that it was not HiDPI by a long shot.
      - atq2119 7y ago
        The ability to understand code at a macro level improves the more code you are able to see at once, because scanning with your eyes is more efficient than scrolling can ever be. So using a portrait orientation for your monitor does make sense.
      - Simon_says 7y ago
        Maybe you're just not used to it?
  - steve_adams_86 7y ago
    I love stacking terminals in a vertical monitor. I usually keep some code in tall columns as well if the project has longer files. It's great when it suits what you're doing, but I had my doubts like you as well.

misnome 7y ago

> Sidenote - 6k monitor is beautiful but $5000? The live stream I'm following jokingly mentioned the stand is $1000 extra (is that true?). Have we truly moved into $1/ pixel territory? To be fair that's 6kx3k. So $1 buys 3000 pixels (more if you use the cheaper VESA stand option). The sound in the auditorium when $1000 for the stand was announced was priceless.

deleted 7y ago
[deleted]

pastor_elm 7y ago

Apple is a trillion dollar company. You don't get their peddling budget computers.

saagarjha 7y ago
Apple makes most of their money off of iPhone.

slg 7y ago

> Or has Apple come to revelation that pro's will pay any price? Hasn't that always been the case? The price is surprising because Apple had basically abandoned the pro audience and has even started losing some of the prosumer audience with all the keyboard/touchbar shenanigans on the MacBook Pro. But the "pro" in the Pro lineup did have meaning at one point and this appears to be a return to that. It is clearly an attempt to recapture that pro market and the Mac Pro isn't the least bit targeted at the average home user. Although I am sure plenty of home users will buy the things just because.

idlewords 7y ago

My understanding is the monitor is a genuine technological marvel that competes with pro-grade stuff that costs in the tens of thousands of dollars. The $1000 stand is pretty funny, though.

freehunter 7y ago
I think you're right on the comparison for the monitor. Dell has a monitor that's nowhere near as bright with nowhere near as good of a contrast ratio for about the same price as Apple's: https://www.dell.com/en-us/work/shop/dell-ultrasharp-32-8k-monitor-up3218k/apd/210-alez/monitors-monitor-accessories https://www.dell.com/en-us/work/shop/dell-ultrasharp-32-8k-m...
- thefounder 7y ago
  You forgot to say that Dell is an 8k monitor(Apple is only 6k), 1-2 years old, cheaper by far than Apple's pro display. Don't mention the stand.
  - freehunter 7y ago
    But I did say far less bright with far lower contrast ratio, which matters more for the audience they targeted in the keynote.
    - thefounder 7y ago
      What about Sony's infinite contrast? I wonder why they didn't mention it...at best this is an overpriced monitor with different trade-offs(i.e lower resolution than dell, hdr, higher price etc) but has little to do with Sony pro displays. They compare a consumer led display with a pro oled to justify the ridiculous price.
      - freehunter 7y ago
        Sony's "infinite contrast" is on their OLED screens and is a marketing gimmick for consumers that graphic professionals can see straight through. Plus OLED has problems with accurate color representation over time along with screen burn-in. The infinite contrast talks about OLED's ability to turn off pixels if they're black, but if they're very very dark grey the argument falls to pieces. OLED is great for consumers. This isn't a consumer device. Dell's screen is great for the existing graphic design world. Apple's new screen is better. I'm honestly baffled by your statement that this is a consumer display. I have absolutely no idea what gave you that opinion, especially considering the price. It absolutely is not. You can make the argument that the stand and VESA mount are overpriced (they are) but the monitor itself exists in a world that desperately needs it.

ceejayoz 7y ago

The $1,000 stand was not a joke. https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2019/06/apple-unveils-powerful-all-new-mac-pro-and-groundbreaking-pro-display-xdr/ https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2019/06/apple-unveils-powerfu... > The all-new Mac Pro starts at $5,999 and will be available to order in the fall. Pro Display XDR starts at $4,999, the Pro Stand is $999 and the VESA Mount Adapter is $199.

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

golergka 7y ago

> an 8-core machine (I get it's Xeon), with a 256GB SSD and 32GB of RAM with a nice graphics card for $6000 is ludicrous Machine on itself may be, but the software? Let me offer from music production perspective. For instance, Logic Pro X costs $200 - and has more value than even the fullest edition of Ableton Live (at least, for me), which costs $800. And Windows Pro is $200 against a free OS X, so the cost difference just for audio production is $800 already. And if you compare the quality of ASIO4ALL with it's OS X counterpart, I'm not sure how to put monetary value on it, but it just shows that it's not about the hardware... I have recently outgrown my 2014 macbook and didn't want to buy neither a modern one, nor a trashcan mac, so I moved to Windows machine. Now, with modular Mac Pro design back, I know that I can finally build the workhorse I want.

toyg 7y ago

Apple hardware has always been ludicrously overpriced compared to competition, nothing new there. They charge what the market will bear. You don’t complain about the price of a Lamborghini, you either pay it or you don’t. The 1k stand is funny though. It’s the hardware equivalent of $200 t-shirts (yes, they exist - go check the various Prada, YSL etc): you know it’s not worth it, they know it’s not worth it, but you buy it anyway just so that people will know you have so much money that you can overpay for trash.

odshoifsdhfs 7y ago
Don't want to be rude, but 200 dollar tshirts are nothing. Get to 'boutique' italian makers (only I know is Brunello Cuccinelli) and you will be paying 500+ for a simple tshirt, 1300 for a 'long sleeve tshirt' and the likes). (I am not trying to be rude, but last few years being involved with the very rich, a lot of the brands they buy general people don't even know or heard of them vs prada/gucci/whatever on the hiphop videos) [0] https://shop.brunellocucinelli.com/en-pt/woman/collection/topwear/top-192MF948DA100.html https://shop.brunellocucinelli.com/en-pt/woman/collection/to... [1] https://shop.brunellocucinelli.com/en-pt/woman/collection/topwear/long-sleeve-t-shirt-192MF948DA902.html https://shop.brunellocucinelli.com/en-pt/woman/collection/to...

ken 7y ago

> I don't doubt the hardware is top-notch again, but an 8-core machine (I get it's Xeon), with a 256GB SSD and 32GB of RAM with a nice graphics card for $6000 is ludicrous. I tried pricing out a Dell workstation with comparable features (though still not as fast in any spec), and it came to just under $8000. > Have we truly moved into $1/ pixel territory? 6K means 6000 pixels wide, not total. It's roughly $1 per column of 3384 pixels. For high end displays, that price is nothing new. In 2004, the Apple Cinema Display was 2560x1600 at $3299 (accounting for inflation: $4463 in 2019 dollars), or $1.29 (2019: $1.74) per column of 1600 pixels. Over the 6 years that Apple sold it, the price dropped from $3299 to $1799.

sprafa 7y ago

The screen is very competitive, comparable screens in the audiovisual industry regularly go for 10,000$ or more. The screen actually looks like a bargain tbh knowing about HDR 4K screens im not even sure there’s anything in the same ballpark. And knowing Apple I expect them to have done this well - iPads were known around pro audiovisual production circles as one of the few consumer level screens where you could approve final Color correction on - because they were so Color accurate they were up there with pro screens. In the Mac Pro I have no idea but in audiovisual again there’s a reason Macs are king - ProRes. Doesn’t matter how much thy price their pro machines, production companies around the world will gobble them up because they still own the most efficient video codec known to the industry - very fast encoding times and excellent compression. Most movies and TV shows you watch today are still recorded in ProRes in high-level low-compression modes such as 4444 or XR.