15 ms·

>If you lower the brain temperature down to 30C (86F), it can increase the survival time from 10 to 20 minutes. If you cool the brain to 20C (68F), you can get

>If you lower the brain temperature down to 30C (86F), it can increase the survival time from 10 to 20 minutes. If you cool the brain to 20C (68F), you can get an hour. Wow, I actually didn't know this until now. Is this method used anywhere in medical procedures to resuscitate or prolong life?

thrower123 7y ago
I believe that this is a common trope in medical dramas. While I'm unaware of how often it is actually done, I know that I have seen it done in multiple episodes of House, or ER, etc, etc.
- cstrat 7y ago
  At least it's an accurate medical trope :)
duskwuff 7y ago
It absolutely is. There's been considerable research on the use of therapeutic hypothermia during surgery, or after a traumatic injury. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Targeted_temperature_management https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Targeted_temperature_managemen... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deep_hypothermic_circulatory_arrest https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deep_hypothermic_circulatory_a...
Someone 7y ago
The popularized way to say that is ”Nobody is dead until warm and dead” See for example https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24882104 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24882104, which states ”the longest time from cardiac arrest to return of spontaneous circulation was 6 h and 52 min”
sytelus 7y ago
So this may be the basis of cryogenics? If you just cool down in specific way, you can turn off metabolism and then turn back on again at later date?
- nradov 7y ago
  Well not really. Cooling the patient down will give you a few hours at most under ideal conditions. Metabolism isn't turned off, just slowed down. If you freeze the patient the ice crystals damage the cells so much that revival becomes impossible.
  - the_pwner224 7y ago
    Flash freezing (using liquid nitrogen to freeze something really quickly) is used successfully for smaller objects, such as frozen berries and frozen vegetables that you can buy at the grocery store. The Wikipedia page on flash freezing links to this [0] site with some more discussion. The Wiki page also says that flash freezing still can take a few hours, so there are still ice crystals created, but a lot less/smaller than if you just put it in the freezer. Overall it seems it's just a matter of waiting for technology to advance to the point where we can very move a 150 pound 2-meter-tall 1-foot-deep object from 98 degrees to 30 degrees, and at that point the science fiction will become reality. [0]: https://web.archive.org/web/20120111233417/http://www.biotech.ufl.edu/EM/data/freeze.html https://web.archive.org/web/20120111233417/http://www.biotec...
    - simcop2387 7y ago
      The size matters significantly for this. Much larger and it becomes difficult to remove the heat throughout fast enough to do a flash freeze.
      - bduerst 7y ago
        This is correct. Flash freezing an entire human body consistently would be incredibly difficult.
    - ChrisRR 7y ago
      Even speaking as a brit, your mixture of metric and imperial and metric fascinates me. I personally would've written 150lb, 6'6 tall, 1ft deep, 37 to 0 degrees
eecc 7y ago
About 30 years ago, my grandma had her entire aortic arch and then some more of the aorta itself replaced in a daring procedure. (I guess one can still call it as such today). Notably, her body was cooled down significantly to reduce her metabolic rate down to nothing. She survived several years, although she never quite recovered fully after that...
kzrdude 7y ago
Sure, there is research in applying this to premature babies in some cases
mrmonkeyman 7y ago
Yes, my dad was held at cool temperatures after suffering brain damage.
tapland 7y ago
About 10 years ago, finishing up High School, I had work practice at a company developing a product that would cool the brain without cooling the rest of the body. I think they had mixed results, and I haven't seen them or their competitors launch their products. It works though, but it seems very difficult to cool the brain without chilling the whole body.
Waterluvian 7y ago
"You're not dead until you're warm and dead." Is a quote that stuck with me. I was reading an article [1] about a person who froze to death and made a practically complete recovery. By the way this story is a must read. [1]https://www.thestar.com/news/insight/2017/02/19/this-queens-student-froze-to-death-on-a-kingston-pier-heres-how-he-came-back-to-life.html https://www.thestar.com/news/insight/2017/02/19/this-queens-...

thrower123 7y ago

I believe that this is a common trope in medical dramas. While I'm unaware of how often it is actually done, I know that I have seen it done in multiple episodes of House, or ER, etc, etc.

cstrat 7y ago
At least it's an accurate medical trope :)

duskwuff 7y ago

It absolutely is. There's been considerable research on the use of therapeutic hypothermia during surgery, or after a traumatic injury. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Targeted_temperature_management https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Targeted_temperature_managemen... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deep_hypothermic_circulatory_arrest https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deep_hypothermic_circulatory_a...

Someone 7y ago

The popularized way to say that is ”Nobody is dead until warm and dead” See for example https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24882104 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24882104, which states ”the longest time from cardiac arrest to return of spontaneous circulation was 6 h and 52 min”

sytelus 7y ago

So this may be the basis of cryogenics? If you just cool down in specific way, you can turn off metabolism and then turn back on again at later date?

nradov 7y ago
Well not really. Cooling the patient down will give you a few hours at most under ideal conditions. Metabolism isn't turned off, just slowed down. If you freeze the patient the ice crystals damage the cells so much that revival becomes impossible.
- the_pwner224 7y ago
  Flash freezing (using liquid nitrogen to freeze something really quickly) is used successfully for smaller objects, such as frozen berries and frozen vegetables that you can buy at the grocery store. The Wikipedia page on flash freezing links to this [0] site with some more discussion. The Wiki page also says that flash freezing still can take a few hours, so there are still ice crystals created, but a lot less/smaller than if you just put it in the freezer. Overall it seems it's just a matter of waiting for technology to advance to the point where we can very move a 150 pound 2-meter-tall 1-foot-deep object from 98 degrees to 30 degrees, and at that point the science fiction will become reality. [0]: https://web.archive.org/web/20120111233417/http://www.biotech.ufl.edu/EM/data/freeze.html https://web.archive.org/web/20120111233417/http://www.biotec...
  - simcop2387 7y ago
    The size matters significantly for this. Much larger and it becomes difficult to remove the heat throughout fast enough to do a flash freeze.
    - bduerst 7y ago
      This is correct. Flash freezing an entire human body consistently would be incredibly difficult.
  - ChrisRR 7y ago
    Even speaking as a brit, your mixture of metric and imperial and metric fascinates me. I personally would've written 150lb, 6'6 tall, 1ft deep, 37 to 0 degrees

eecc 7y ago

About 30 years ago, my grandma had her entire aortic arch and then some more of the aorta itself replaced in a daring procedure. (I guess one can still call it as such today). Notably, her body was cooled down significantly to reduce her metabolic rate down to nothing. She survived several years, although she never quite recovered fully after that...

kzrdude 7y ago

Sure, there is research in applying this to premature babies in some cases

mrmonkeyman 7y ago

Yes, my dad was held at cool temperatures after suffering brain damage.

tapland 7y ago

About 10 years ago, finishing up High School, I had work practice at a company developing a product that would cool the brain without cooling the rest of the body. I think they had mixed results, and I haven't seen them or their competitors launch their products. It works though, but it seems very difficult to cool the brain without chilling the whole body.

Waterluvian 7y ago

"You're not dead until you're warm and dead." Is a quote that stuck with me. I was reading an article [1] about a person who froze to death and made a practically complete recovery. By the way this story is a must read. [1]https://www.thestar.com/news/insight/2017/02/19/this-queens-student-froze-to-death-on-a-kingston-pier-heres-how-he-came-back-to-life.html https://www.thestar.com/news/insight/2017/02/19/this-queens-...