6 ms·

I meet a lot of tourists on a daily basis, and I have not heard anyone say they want to visit the United States in a very long time. I can't imagine how much w

I meet a lot of tourists on a daily basis, and I have not heard anyone say they want to visit the United States in a very long time. I can't imagine how much worse it is for people that are forced to travel there for business. If the United States is trying to isolate itself from the rest of the world it is definitely succeeding. As a side note, I have not spoken to a tourist from the US on the island where I live in several months. However there is a literal flood of French, German, Chinese, Dutch, Singaporean, etc. Last night I had dinner with an Uzbek and Tanzanian couple. Where are you guys?

avocado4 7y ago
>> "I have not heard anyone say they want to visit the United States in a very long time." US had the 3rd largest number of tourists in the world in 2017 (after France and Spain). [1] Though YOY is trending down in Trump years. [1] https://www.e-unwto.org/doi/pdf/10.18111/9789284419876 https://www.e-unwto.org/doi/pdf/10.18111/9789284419876
- diveanon 7y ago
  I did not see a breakdown by age demographic in that report. The overwhelming majority of the tourists I encounter fall into the Millennial bracket, and I don't think it is possible for them to be less enthusiastic about visiting the US. Maybe that will change once they have kids who want to go see Harry Potter World in Orlando, but as it stands I think most of my customers would rather visit North Korea than the US.
  - JumpCrisscross 7y ago
    > The overwhelming majority of the tourists I encounter fall into the Millennial bracket, and I don't think it is possible for them to be less enthusiastic about visiting the US I’m a millennial with lots of international millennial friends. Nobody likes these measures. But getting into most countries is no walk in the park. As much as I hate to admit this, the pressure to end these policies will never come from tourists.
    - diveanon 7y ago
      Depends on where you are coming from. Most of the Europeans that come through have the financial means and strong enough passports to go pretty much anywhere they please. Same goes for most Japanese and Chinese. My Arab customers however have the money, but getting a visa is a near impossibility.
      - pnw_hazor 7y ago
        EU travelers should understand - because the EU screens social media as part of visa applications too.
        diveanon 7y ago
        I don't think it is any one issue for them, rather more like "all of the above".
        yani 7y ago
        To the best of my knowledge there is no such thing.
        igravious 7y ago
        False: https://www.schengenvisainfo.com/ https://www.schengenvisainfo.com/
      - avocado4 7y ago
        >> "have the financial means and strong enough passports to go pretty much anywhere they please. Same goes for most Japanese and Chinese" Chinese passport is one of the worst in the world as far as travel goes. [1][2] [1] https://www.passportindex.org/byRank.php https://www.passportindex.org/byRank.php [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visa_requirements_for_Chinese_citizens https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visa_requirements_for_Chinese_...
        diveanon 7y ago
        That doesn't seem to prevent millions of them from traveling every year.
  - ashelmire 7y ago
    > The overwhelming majority of the tourists I encounter fall into the Millennial bracket, and I don't think it is possible for them to be less enthusiastic about visiting the US. You could say the same about American millenials. We aren't thrilled to be here either - if we all had dual citizenship with another first-world nation, I'd bet 70% of us would have left the country. I doubt we've ever had an economy that was as strong (or at least, looked so good on paper), while people had such a negative opinion of what the future holds. Trump and the Senate Republicans (and their supporters) are destroying this nation.
    - diveanon 7y ago
      You don't need dual citizenship to leave, it didn't stop me. America has been on a bad path for decades, I left long before Trump was even in the picture.
- mrsalt 7y ago
  I would think many of those visits are for business or seeing family. Plus the fact that many of the tourists come from countries in the Visa Waiver Program [1]. An ESTA is much less involved than a B1/B2 visa application. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tourism_in_the_United_States#Visitor_statistics https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tourism_in_the_United_States#V...
- FabHK 7y ago
  The YOY growth rates of the top 10 destinations are between max +24.1% (Turkey) and min 0.7% (USA).
joelrunyon 7y ago
What island are you on?
- diveanon 7y ago
  A Malaysian island in the South China Sea.
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
  - joelrunyon 7y ago
    To be honest - that's sort of off the beaten path (speaking for a lot of Americans). From the SE asian island-ish countries, I can think the ordering of "who goes where" would look something like this - Thailand, Bali, Vietnam, Phillippines, Malaysia - just based on country marketing + anecdotal conversations alone. This is coming from someone who was nomad-ing around for 2 1/2 years too.
    - diveanon 7y ago
      My flight from New York to KL cost less than my flight from Orlando to NY. Most Malaysians also speak English very well, especially compared to the rest of SE Asia. I have spoken to Americans back home who couldn't even point out Malaysia on a map, and even more who just write it off as a "Muslim country" despite it being secular and very diverse. I would say it has less to do with accessibility, and more to do with Americans being skittish travelers who have been brainwashed into thinking that any country with a couple Muslims is a scary place.
      - joelrunyon 7y ago
        I didn't say anything about accessibility. I said it has to do with how the country presents itself. If you polled people going to Asia - you'd see a huge # of them would be going to Thailand or Bali (80/20) - likely due to them being portrayed in the media quite a bit. Indonesia is also significantly Muslim. You seem to be looking for a fight where there isn't one. Maybe you should reconsider your assumptions about Americans.
Swizec 7y ago
Have you seen how many vacation days most americans get? It’s not a lot and most of it goes towards visiting family around the major holidays.
- diveanon 7y ago
  I honestly think that is one of the primary factors. That and how health care is tied to employment. When Europeans change jobs they tend to go on vacation for a while, Americans immediately scramble for a new job out of fear of getting sick.
  - jimmaswell 7y ago
    > Americans immediately scramble for a new job out of fear of getting sick. Or in fear of paying a tax penalty unless they buy some substandard marketplace plan (yes, I know the marketplace plans were sabotaged for political reasons in some cases, but that doesn't change the result)
    - humanrebar 7y ago
      > Starting with the 2019 plan year (for which you’ll file taxes in April 2020), the Shared Responsibility Payment no longer applies. https://www.healthcare.gov/fees/fee-for-not-being-covered/ https://www.healthcare.gov/fees/fee-for-not-being-covered/ Of course this is new, so fears in recent history were definitely real.
- godelski 7y ago
  Also add in that household income is (fairly) stagnant[0] but costs are increasing. Anecdotally the only people I know that visit other countries either are: not from the US; come from a wealthy family; or have little money and that's just what they spend their money on. I know very few middle class people that visit other countries (outside of work related tasks). The excuse is always "I can't afford it." For me, that's my excuse. But that's not only money but time (which is correlated). I mean a round trip from my location to London is about $2.5k (similar cost for anywhere in Europe, Japan, or New Zealand). If I had a couple grand to drop on a vacation I'd do it. Though I'll say that I can get a round trip to Malaysia for under $2k, which is more reasonable (especially considering expenditures while there are less). [0] https://www.advisorperspectives.com/images/content_image/data/4d/4dd6c939e5af3b0f7a05d42521f2f4c6.png https://www.advisorperspectives.com/images/content_image/dat...
inferiorhuman 7y ago
Where are you guys? I typically travel to places where I know someone — so given that most of the Malaysians I know have moved elsewhere (or are trying to) I'm less inclined to visit. The politics, health care, and to some extent personal safety and syariah law create some resistance too.
- diveanon 7y ago
  Politics - Malaysia has a healthier democracy than the United States and is currently undergoing massive anti corruption reforms. Healthcare - I receive better and more affordable healthcare here than I ever did in the US. Visiting a DR costs $10 out of pocket and most medications are in the $5-$20 range. I recently underwent extensive hyperbaric therapy and it cost me less than $200. The same treatment in the US would have been near $10000. I also have insurance, but I am yet to actually need to dip into it. Personal Safety - I feel safer wandering around KL at night than I ever did LA or SF. On the island where I live I don't even have a lock on my door. Sharia Law - Malaysia is a secular society. In areas where Sharia law is in effect it only applies to Muslims, and even then it can be appealed in the courts. Malaysia is a very mixed society that has learned to respect all races and religions, wish I could say the same for the US. Its sad because you are eliminating one of the travel gems of the world based on false assumptions.
  - inferiorhuman 7y ago
    Politics - Malaysia has a healthier democracy than the United States and is currently undergoing massive anti corruption reforms. Which is great, but it wasn't that long ago that the opposition leader was thrown into jail on trumped up sodomy charges. Healthcare The cost of care is lower but so is the quality was what I've had a few Malaysian friends tell me. Personal Safety - I feel safer wandering around KL at night than I ever did LA or SF. On the island where I live I don't even have a lock on my door. Most places feel safer than San Francisco to me, that's not much of a challenge. The US State Dept listed a warning due to an increased risk of kidnapping, and they also list these gems: - Taxi drivers in downtown Kuala Lumpur have perpetrated violent crimes against foreign tourists and local residents - Criminals also target motorists stuck in traffic or stopped at a light with smash and grab robberies. When I was planning a trip to Penang and KL a few years back the advice given was to have my friend pick me up instead of taking a taxi -- due to her concerns for my safety. Malaysia is a very mixed society that has learned to respect all races and religions Well that's patently false. How many non-Muslim Malays do you know? Hint: none because syariah law prevents them from leaving Islam and the so-called secular law cowtows to Islam. How about race based university admissions (and a variety of other codified race based privileges)?
hdfbdtbcdg 7y ago
They only have 5-10 days vacation a year on average. Give them a break already!
- diveanon 7y ago
  They brought it upon themselves. Americans resist every attempt that I have seen to improve working conditions. It was such a big issue for me that it motivated me to leave the SV tech community and the US altogether. I don't see myself ever living there again.
  - rbanffy 7y ago
    <sarcasm>Proper vacation time? That's communism!</sarcasm> edit: added sarcasm tags
- adventured 7y ago
  > They only have 5-10 days vacation a year on average. Your figures are off by a large margin (70% to 240%). The average American worker took 17 days of vacation time in 2017. For paid vacation time - the more important item - it depends heavily on experience and company size. "In 2017, the average worker with five years of experience at a company was given 15 days of paid vacation and the average worker with 20 years of experience was given 20 paid vacation days." "According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, 76 percent of private industry workers ... After one year of employment, these workers were granted 10 days of paid vacation, on average." https://www.cnbc.com/2018/07/05/heres-how-many-paid-vacation-days-the-typical-american-worker-gets-.html https://www.cnbc.com/2018/07/05/heres-how-many-paid-vacation...
  - hdfbdtbcdg 7y ago
    If they take sick days do they come out of vacation time?
    - diveanon 7y ago
      Most of the time yes.

avocado4 7y ago

>> "I have not heard anyone say they want to visit the United States in a very long time." US had the 3rd largest number of tourists in the world in 2017 (after France and Spain). [1] Though YOY is trending down in Trump years. [1] https://www.e-unwto.org/doi/pdf/10.18111/9789284419876 https://www.e-unwto.org/doi/pdf/10.18111/9789284419876

diveanon 7y ago
I did not see a breakdown by age demographic in that report. The overwhelming majority of the tourists I encounter fall into the Millennial bracket, and I don't think it is possible for them to be less enthusiastic about visiting the US. Maybe that will change once they have kids who want to go see Harry Potter World in Orlando, but as it stands I think most of my customers would rather visit North Korea than the US.
- JumpCrisscross 7y ago
  > The overwhelming majority of the tourists I encounter fall into the Millennial bracket, and I don't think it is possible for them to be less enthusiastic about visiting the US I’m a millennial with lots of international millennial friends. Nobody likes these measures. But getting into most countries is no walk in the park. As much as I hate to admit this, the pressure to end these policies will never come from tourists.
  - diveanon 7y ago
    Depends on where you are coming from. Most of the Europeans that come through have the financial means and strong enough passports to go pretty much anywhere they please. Same goes for most Japanese and Chinese. My Arab customers however have the money, but getting a visa is a near impossibility.
    - pnw_hazor 7y ago
      EU travelers should understand - because the EU screens social media as part of visa applications too.
      - diveanon 7y ago
        I don't think it is any one issue for them, rather more like "all of the above".
      - yani 7y ago
        To the best of my knowledge there is no such thing.
      - igravious 7y ago
        False: https://www.schengenvisainfo.com/ https://www.schengenvisainfo.com/
    - avocado4 7y ago
      >> "have the financial means and strong enough passports to go pretty much anywhere they please. Same goes for most Japanese and Chinese" Chinese passport is one of the worst in the world as far as travel goes. [1][2] [1] https://www.passportindex.org/byRank.php https://www.passportindex.org/byRank.php [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visa_requirements_for_Chinese_citizens https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visa_requirements_for_Chinese_...
      - diveanon 7y ago
        That doesn't seem to prevent millions of them from traveling every year.
- ashelmire 7y ago
  > The overwhelming majority of the tourists I encounter fall into the Millennial bracket, and I don't think it is possible for them to be less enthusiastic about visiting the US. You could say the same about American millenials. We aren't thrilled to be here either - if we all had dual citizenship with another first-world nation, I'd bet 70% of us would have left the country. I doubt we've ever had an economy that was as strong (or at least, looked so good on paper), while people had such a negative opinion of what the future holds. Trump and the Senate Republicans (and their supporters) are destroying this nation.
  - diveanon 7y ago
    You don't need dual citizenship to leave, it didn't stop me. America has been on a bad path for decades, I left long before Trump was even in the picture.
mrsalt 7y ago
I would think many of those visits are for business or seeing family. Plus the fact that many of the tourists come from countries in the Visa Waiver Program [1]. An ESTA is much less involved than a B1/B2 visa application. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tourism_in_the_United_States#Visitor_statistics https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tourism_in_the_United_States#V...
FabHK 7y ago
The YOY growth rates of the top 10 destinations are between max +24.1% (Turkey) and min 0.7% (USA).

joelrunyon 7y ago

What island are you on?

diveanon 7y ago
A Malaysian island in the South China Sea.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- joelrunyon 7y ago
  To be honest - that's sort of off the beaten path (speaking for a lot of Americans). From the SE asian island-ish countries, I can think the ordering of "who goes where" would look something like this - Thailand, Bali, Vietnam, Phillippines, Malaysia - just based on country marketing + anecdotal conversations alone. This is coming from someone who was nomad-ing around for 2 1/2 years too.
  - diveanon 7y ago
    My flight from New York to KL cost less than my flight from Orlando to NY. Most Malaysians also speak English very well, especially compared to the rest of SE Asia. I have spoken to Americans back home who couldn't even point out Malaysia on a map, and even more who just write it off as a "Muslim country" despite it being secular and very diverse. I would say it has less to do with accessibility, and more to do with Americans being skittish travelers who have been brainwashed into thinking that any country with a couple Muslims is a scary place.
    - joelrunyon 7y ago
      I didn't say anything about accessibility. I said it has to do with how the country presents itself. If you polled people going to Asia - you'd see a huge # of them would be going to Thailand or Bali (80/20) - likely due to them being portrayed in the media quite a bit. Indonesia is also significantly Muslim. You seem to be looking for a fight where there isn't one. Maybe you should reconsider your assumptions about Americans.

Swizec 7y ago

Have you seen how many vacation days most americans get? It’s not a lot and most of it goes towards visiting family around the major holidays.

diveanon 7y ago
I honestly think that is one of the primary factors. That and how health care is tied to employment. When Europeans change jobs they tend to go on vacation for a while, Americans immediately scramble for a new job out of fear of getting sick.
- jimmaswell 7y ago
  > Americans immediately scramble for a new job out of fear of getting sick. Or in fear of paying a tax penalty unless they buy some substandard marketplace plan (yes, I know the marketplace plans were sabotaged for political reasons in some cases, but that doesn't change the result)
  - humanrebar 7y ago
    > Starting with the 2019 plan year (for which you’ll file taxes in April 2020), the Shared Responsibility Payment no longer applies. https://www.healthcare.gov/fees/fee-for-not-being-covered/ https://www.healthcare.gov/fees/fee-for-not-being-covered/ Of course this is new, so fears in recent history were definitely real.
godelski 7y ago
Also add in that household income is (fairly) stagnant[0] but costs are increasing. Anecdotally the only people I know that visit other countries either are: not from the US; come from a wealthy family; or have little money and that's just what they spend their money on. I know very few middle class people that visit other countries (outside of work related tasks). The excuse is always "I can't afford it." For me, that's my excuse. But that's not only money but time (which is correlated). I mean a round trip from my location to London is about $2.5k (similar cost for anywhere in Europe, Japan, or New Zealand). If I had a couple grand to drop on a vacation I'd do it. Though I'll say that I can get a round trip to Malaysia for under $2k, which is more reasonable (especially considering expenditures while there are less). [0] https://www.advisorperspectives.com/images/content_image/data/4d/4dd6c939e5af3b0f7a05d42521f2f4c6.png https://www.advisorperspectives.com/images/content_image/dat...

inferiorhuman 7y ago

Where are you guys? I typically travel to places where I know someone — so given that most of the Malaysians I know have moved elsewhere (or are trying to) I'm less inclined to visit. The politics, health care, and to some extent personal safety and syariah law create some resistance too.

diveanon 7y ago
Politics - Malaysia has a healthier democracy than the United States and is currently undergoing massive anti corruption reforms. Healthcare - I receive better and more affordable healthcare here than I ever did in the US. Visiting a DR costs $10 out of pocket and most medications are in the $5-$20 range. I recently underwent extensive hyperbaric therapy and it cost me less than $200. The same treatment in the US would have been near $10000. I also have insurance, but I am yet to actually need to dip into it. Personal Safety - I feel safer wandering around KL at night than I ever did LA or SF. On the island where I live I don't even have a lock on my door. Sharia Law - Malaysia is a secular society. In areas where Sharia law is in effect it only applies to Muslims, and even then it can be appealed in the courts. Malaysia is a very mixed society that has learned to respect all races and religions, wish I could say the same for the US. Its sad because you are eliminating one of the travel gems of the world based on false assumptions.
- inferiorhuman 7y ago
  Politics - Malaysia has a healthier democracy than the United States and is currently undergoing massive anti corruption reforms. Which is great, but it wasn't that long ago that the opposition leader was thrown into jail on trumped up sodomy charges. Healthcare The cost of care is lower but so is the quality was what I've had a few Malaysian friends tell me. Personal Safety - I feel safer wandering around KL at night than I ever did LA or SF. On the island where I live I don't even have a lock on my door. Most places feel safer than San Francisco to me, that's not much of a challenge. The US State Dept listed a warning due to an increased risk of kidnapping, and they also list these gems: - Taxi drivers in downtown Kuala Lumpur have perpetrated violent crimes against foreign tourists and local residents - Criminals also target motorists stuck in traffic or stopped at a light with smash and grab robberies. When I was planning a trip to Penang and KL a few years back the advice given was to have my friend pick me up instead of taking a taxi -- due to her concerns for my safety. Malaysia is a very mixed society that has learned to respect all races and religions Well that's patently false. How many non-Muslim Malays do you know? Hint: none because syariah law prevents them from leaving Islam and the so-called secular law cowtows to Islam. How about race based university admissions (and a variety of other codified race based privileges)?

hdfbdtbcdg 7y ago

They only have 5-10 days vacation a year on average. Give them a break already!

diveanon 7y ago
They brought it upon themselves. Americans resist every attempt that I have seen to improve working conditions. It was such a big issue for me that it motivated me to leave the SV tech community and the US altogether. I don't see myself ever living there again.
- rbanffy 7y ago
  <sarcasm>Proper vacation time? That's communism!</sarcasm> edit: added sarcasm tags
adventured 7y ago
> They only have 5-10 days vacation a year on average. Your figures are off by a large margin (70% to 240%). The average American worker took 17 days of vacation time in 2017. For paid vacation time - the more important item - it depends heavily on experience and company size. "In 2017, the average worker with five years of experience at a company was given 15 days of paid vacation and the average worker with 20 years of experience was given 20 paid vacation days." "According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, 76 percent of private industry workers ... After one year of employment, these workers were granted 10 days of paid vacation, on average." https://www.cnbc.com/2018/07/05/heres-how-many-paid-vacation-days-the-typical-american-worker-gets-.html https://www.cnbc.com/2018/07/05/heres-how-many-paid-vacation...
- hdfbdtbcdg 7y ago
  If they take sick days do they come out of vacation time?
  - diveanon 7y ago
    Most of the time yes.