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I believe this is partly a cultural artifact of Japan being earthquake prone. The severity and frequency of earthquakes used to make it difficult to build housi

by zizee 7y ago

I believe this is partly a cultural artifact of Japan being earthquake prone. The severity and frequency of earthquakes used to make it difficult to build housing that would last.

0xB31B1B 7y ago
Do you have any evidence to back this up? My sources say that this is a long held artifact of the shinto belief system and culture. This is a clumsy way to state this but they essentially that houses accumulate spirits over time and become “haunted”. Old dwellings are valued less because they are “dirtied” or “burdened” with an accumulated cruft of spiritual... somethingness. Haunting here isn’t a literal translation but it’s the best I can do in a short time. It’s kind of how Marie Kondos whole schitck is about treating your things as if they have “personness” or “the quality and dignity of being actively present and deserving of respect”.
- uncletaco 7y ago
  Can you show your sources? And is it possible that you both can be right?
- manfredo 7y ago
  I don't have a source off hand, but I've heard that the average lifespan of a Japanese house is 30-40 years. Sure, there are some historic houses and estates that have lasted for much longer than that, sometimes even centuries. They're built with the intent that a couple will raise a family in them and so there's not much reason for houses to last longer than that. Energy costs are also some of the highest in the world so getting the latest insulation technology and other efficiencies is important.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- mikekchar 7y ago
  I'm sure some people believe this (although this is the first time I've heard of it). However, Japan is really a secular society. People observe religious rituals, but I literally don't know a single person that actually follows the Shinto religion strictly (and my wife's father and brother were Shinto priests!!!) Most people build a new house because that's the dream: to live in exactly the house you want to live in. If you buy an old house, then you are putting up with somebody else's choices. That and the fact that until recently houses weren't built to last. You seriously don't want to live in a house built in the 1950's. It wouldn't even take an earthquake for it to fall down around you and kill you ;-) Housing standards have improved dramatically over time and the difference between at 10 year old house and a new house was historically stark (well, at least since WWII). These days it's starting to even out and I see the used house market starting to pick up a bit (personally, I even prefer the houses built 10 years ago to the ones they build now -- It seems nobody wants windows in their new houses any more...)
kgwgk 7y ago
There was a monster real estate bubble in the eighties (prices tripled), I think earthquakes were also a risk back then.
jrockway 7y ago
This is what my friends who own houses in Tokyo tell me. Homes are bought with the assumption that they will be destroyed before the loan is up and that the bank will pay it off. This doesn't really make sense to me because there have been big earthquakes in Japan in my lifetime, and there isn't a massive housing crisis while every structure in the country is being rebuilt. So I don't fully understand this logic. But unlike the other comments replying to you, I can confirm that I've heard this many times. My understanding is that while people in the US pay for housing with 15 or 30 year mortgages... in Japan the 100 year term is the most common. I am not sure if this has any effect on the market, but people certainly don't think "when I grow old, I'll have this big nest egg locked up in home equity". The bank owned the house when they were born, and it owns it when they die.
- sjg007 7y ago
  So it is basically a fixed "interest" leasehold market. Here the bank and leaseholders are the landlords but only in name only. So the money is in the land really and the option to build which is retained by the leaseholder. The bank is betting on the interest. If you borrow 20k at 100 years you end up paying $80,685.50 in interest. I guess there must be some magic number somewhere that makes this work nor why you don't have appreciation ... I guess because newer and better keeps being built.
- Aeolun 7y ago
  I just bought a house in Japan. No bank came to me with a 100 year term. It’s 20 - 35 years. I guess it’s possible they’ll give that if you ask for it?
bamboozled 7y ago
It's not that hey won't last exactly, but more that regulations have improved since the mid 90's and revised in 2004, so newer buildings are considered to be safer. It's actually something people talk about when looking at renting a new apartment.
- rangibaby 7y ago
  The biggest change was in the 1980s (1981 iirc). Existing structures were grandfathered in, but the Kobe earthquake proved newer buildings were much, much safer which inspired people to rebuild their homes ASAP.
fiblye 7y ago
People are downvoting you, but everyone I know here in Japan has told me this. It's not that they're planning for complete annihilation from a massive earthquake, but there's bound to be some wear and tear when a relatively large one strikes every few years. Compound that with the absurd humidity and mold problem endemic to pretty much all of coastal Asia (trying to keep your house mold-free is a losing battle after a certain point and it's unavoidable) and the cost and effort of repairs far outweighs the ease of just tearing it down and rebuilding. In the west, a 20 year old house is considered brand new. In Japan, 20 years old is bordering on junk territory. 30 years is junk and not worth the effort of repairs. You can search online and find 40 year old houses basically selling for pocket change since they're basically considered moldy death traps on the verge of collapse. Now, though, Western-style homes built to withstand earthquakes are becoming common and they're expected to be a slightly better investment. How these houses fair against mold is something I'm not sure of. A commenter below mentioned spirits accumulating in a house, but I've never heard of such a thing and it reeks of mysterious orientalism. But most people won't buy a house that someone committed suicide in or was murdered in. "Jikenya" (incident homes) are marked as such and sell for drastically reduced prices, if they can sell them at all.
- markdown 7y ago
  > absurd humidity and mold problem endemic to pretty much all of coastal Asia (trying to keep your house mold-free is a losing battle after a certain point and it's unavoidable) The only place I ever read about this supposedly terrifying mould is on the internet, usually from Americans. What exactly is wrong with mould? Everyone lives in mouldy houses where I live. Going by Americans online, we should all be dead by now (if not from the mould, from touching raw chicken... the other supposed terror).
  - stefanfisk 7y ago
    and where do you live?
    - mikekchar 7y ago
      Not OP. I have to admit that my apartment in Japan is covered in mold. It makes for good cheesemaking ;-) Some people in the UK seem to be quite concerned about the health effects of mold as well. I know people who have spent tens of thousands of pounds battling it. I don't have any idea if its justified or not. I know nothing about the topic. However, I can at least verify that the people I know in Japan don't worry very much about mold growing on surfaces in the houses in the summer. You try your best to keep the house clean in the summer and then before new year you do "ousoji" (big cleaning) and clean every surface. The biggest thing about mold in our household is clothes. You constantly have to take your clothes out of storage and air them. I've had a fair amount of clothes ruined to mold and that's the biggest problem I deal with.
jayd16 7y ago
I've heard the Japanese do not like "used" houses but I've never hear about the earthquake angle.

by zizee 7y ago

I believe this is partly a cultural artifact of Japan being earthquake prone. The severity and frequency of earthquakes used to make it difficult to build housing that would last.

0xB31B1B 7y ago

Do you have any evidence to back this up? My sources say that this is a long held artifact of the shinto belief system and culture. This is a clumsy way to state this but they essentially that houses accumulate spirits over time and become “haunted”. Old dwellings are valued less because they are “dirtied” or “burdened” with an accumulated cruft of spiritual... somethingness. Haunting here isn’t a literal translation but it’s the best I can do in a short time. It’s kind of how Marie Kondos whole schitck is about treating your things as if they have “personness” or “the quality and dignity of being actively present and deserving of respect”.

uncletaco 7y ago
Can you show your sources? And is it possible that you both can be right?
manfredo 7y ago
I don't have a source off hand, but I've heard that the average lifespan of a Japanese house is 30-40 years. Sure, there are some historic houses and estates that have lasted for much longer than that, sometimes even centuries. They're built with the intent that a couple will raise a family in them and so there's not much reason for houses to last longer than that. Energy costs are also some of the highest in the world so getting the latest insulation technology and other efficiencies is important.
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
mikekchar 7y ago
I'm sure some people believe this (although this is the first time I've heard of it). However, Japan is really a secular society. People observe religious rituals, but I literally don't know a single person that actually follows the Shinto religion strictly (and my wife's father and brother were Shinto priests!!!) Most people build a new house because that's the dream: to live in exactly the house you want to live in. If you buy an old house, then you are putting up with somebody else's choices. That and the fact that until recently houses weren't built to last. You seriously don't want to live in a house built in the 1950's. It wouldn't even take an earthquake for it to fall down around you and kill you ;-) Housing standards have improved dramatically over time and the difference between at 10 year old house and a new house was historically stark (well, at least since WWII). These days it's starting to even out and I see the used house market starting to pick up a bit (personally, I even prefer the houses built 10 years ago to the ones they build now -- It seems nobody wants windows in their new houses any more...)

kgwgk 7y ago

There was a monster real estate bubble in the eighties (prices tripled), I think earthquakes were also a risk back then.

jrockway 7y ago

This is what my friends who own houses in Tokyo tell me. Homes are bought with the assumption that they will be destroyed before the loan is up and that the bank will pay it off. This doesn't really make sense to me because there have been big earthquakes in Japan in my lifetime, and there isn't a massive housing crisis while every structure in the country is being rebuilt. So I don't fully understand this logic. But unlike the other comments replying to you, I can confirm that I've heard this many times. My understanding is that while people in the US pay for housing with 15 or 30 year mortgages... in Japan the 100 year term is the most common. I am not sure if this has any effect on the market, but people certainly don't think "when I grow old, I'll have this big nest egg locked up in home equity". The bank owned the house when they were born, and it owns it when they die.

sjg007 7y ago
So it is basically a fixed "interest" leasehold market. Here the bank and leaseholders are the landlords but only in name only. So the money is in the land really and the option to build which is retained by the leaseholder. The bank is betting on the interest. If you borrow 20k at 100 years you end up paying $80,685.50 in interest. I guess there must be some magic number somewhere that makes this work nor why you don't have appreciation ... I guess because newer and better keeps being built.
Aeolun 7y ago
I just bought a house in Japan. No bank came to me with a 100 year term. It’s 20 - 35 years. I guess it’s possible they’ll give that if you ask for it?

bamboozled 7y ago

It's not that hey won't last exactly, but more that regulations have improved since the mid 90's and revised in 2004, so newer buildings are considered to be safer. It's actually something people talk about when looking at renting a new apartment.

rangibaby 7y ago
The biggest change was in the 1980s (1981 iirc). Existing structures were grandfathered in, but the Kobe earthquake proved newer buildings were much, much safer which inspired people to rebuild their homes ASAP.

fiblye 7y ago

People are downvoting you, but everyone I know here in Japan has told me this. It's not that they're planning for complete annihilation from a massive earthquake, but there's bound to be some wear and tear when a relatively large one strikes every few years. Compound that with the absurd humidity and mold problem endemic to pretty much all of coastal Asia (trying to keep your house mold-free is a losing battle after a certain point and it's unavoidable) and the cost and effort of repairs far outweighs the ease of just tearing it down and rebuilding. In the west, a 20 year old house is considered brand new. In Japan, 20 years old is bordering on junk territory. 30 years is junk and not worth the effort of repairs. You can search online and find 40 year old houses basically selling for pocket change since they're basically considered moldy death traps on the verge of collapse. Now, though, Western-style homes built to withstand earthquakes are becoming common and they're expected to be a slightly better investment. How these houses fair against mold is something I'm not sure of. A commenter below mentioned spirits accumulating in a house, but I've never heard of such a thing and it reeks of mysterious orientalism. But most people won't buy a house that someone committed suicide in or was murdered in. "Jikenya" (incident homes) are marked as such and sell for drastically reduced prices, if they can sell them at all.

markdown 7y ago
> absurd humidity and mold problem endemic to pretty much all of coastal Asia (trying to keep your house mold-free is a losing battle after a certain point and it's unavoidable) The only place I ever read about this supposedly terrifying mould is on the internet, usually from Americans. What exactly is wrong with mould? Everyone lives in mouldy houses where I live. Going by Americans online, we should all be dead by now (if not from the mould, from touching raw chicken... the other supposed terror).
- stefanfisk 7y ago
  and where do you live?
  - mikekchar 7y ago
    Not OP. I have to admit that my apartment in Japan is covered in mold. It makes for good cheesemaking ;-) Some people in the UK seem to be quite concerned about the health effects of mold as well. I know people who have spent tens of thousands of pounds battling it. I don't have any idea if its justified or not. I know nothing about the topic. However, I can at least verify that the people I know in Japan don't worry very much about mold growing on surfaces in the houses in the summer. You try your best to keep the house clean in the summer and then before new year you do "ousoji" (big cleaning) and clean every surface. The biggest thing about mold in our household is clothes. You constantly have to take your clothes out of storage and air them. I've had a fair amount of clothes ruined to mold and that's the biggest problem I deal with.

jayd16 7y ago

I've heard the Japanese do not like "used" houses but I've never hear about the earthquake angle.