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> And later a lot of the original leaders revealed they are clueless in how to demand proper political reform at the original movement So as many other politic

by rqs 7y ago

> And later a lot of the original leaders revealed they are clueless in how to demand proper political reform at the original movement So as many other political movements around the world. A spark comes first, then maybe fire. However, spark is just spark. Protesters of 6.4 was demanding something big, too big to be realistic. So they failed, paid high price for it. To eat an elephant, you have to chop it into pieces first, then eat it piece by piece. Trying to eat an elephant in one sitting will probably kill the eater. BTW: China is still opening up politically, it's slow but still opening. 20 years ago you wouldn't even imagine to be able sue the government for whatever they did, today however it's fairly common in some cases. Economy I think is the main factor that force China to be more open. It's open up or die situation, I don't think even CCP had too many choice.

ttflee 7y ago
> China is still opening up politically Not true. The control was tighter and tighter, day by day after 2008.
- seanmcdirmid 7y ago
  There was an opening for the 2008 olympics, then a clamp back, maybe we will see another attempt for the 2022 Olympics.
- rqs 7y ago
  Which control? What been tightened up is censorship. However, censorship is not completely equals to control. I know what you meant. You want all the rights in the constitution, so did I. But get things cooked require time. The current situation is, if you trying to get that a rush, then you will be cracked down and set everything back. Somebody tried that 30 years ago already and failed. During the few decades of my life, what I've experienced is that the government move themselves more and more into a service role. The goal has been changed from gaining political dominance to generating profit. And they are more willing to act according to laws rather than just make some random new rules. And all that is because we're now relying on an economy that depends on openness. Which, is hard to change as long as economical development is still the top one goal. And it will be, otherwise everything will fell apart. So, unlike you, I'm pretty optimistic about the future. Few shady things and setbacks won't change that. BTW: Here is something what you can do now: 1. Don't join them. 2. If you do join them, don't forget, one of the original goal of CCP is to bring democracy to China. So try do that from time to time as an inside job will you? Of course, I personally like to keep things simple, I don't join them.

by rqs 7y ago

ttflee 7y ago

> China is still opening up politically Not true. The control was tighter and tighter, day by day after 2008.

seanmcdirmid 7y ago
There was an opening for the 2008 olympics, then a clamp back, maybe we will see another attempt for the 2022 Olympics.
rqs 7y ago
Which control? What been tightened up is censorship. However, censorship is not completely equals to control. I know what you meant. You want all the rights in the constitution, so did I. But get things cooked require time. The current situation is, if you trying to get that a rush, then you will be cracked down and set everything back. Somebody tried that 30 years ago already and failed. During the few decades of my life, what I've experienced is that the government move themselves more and more into a service role. The goal has been changed from gaining political dominance to generating profit. And they are more willing to act according to laws rather than just make some random new rules. And all that is because we're now relying on an economy that depends on openness. Which, is hard to change as long as economical development is still the top one goal. And it will be, otherwise everything will fell apart. So, unlike you, I'm pretty optimistic about the future. Few shady things and setbacks won't change that. BTW: Here is something what you can do now: 1. Don't join them. 2. If you do join them, don't forget, one of the original goal of CCP is to bring democracy to China. So try do that from time to time as an inside job will you? Of course, I personally like to keep things simple, I don't join them.