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I wonder how the SWE’s and other senior people in this thread feel about working for a company that many now consider scum. All their excuses and retorts can ho

I wonder how the SWE’s and other senior people in this thread feel about working for a company that many now consider scum. All their excuses and retorts can honestly take a hike: It is my honest opinion that if you still work for Google you’re selling us all out. Googler here, I understand why you may think Google is evil now and I'm not going to say they are a perfect company. But I think you should consider that it is a large company working on many different products. Not everyone is working on Ads or various "evil" things. Many of us work on things that people like and improve our lives. If parts of the company is doing bad things, it doesn't make all of us sell outs in my opinion. Just like how every American that pays taxes isn't a sell out for all the bad things the US might do.

flyer428 7y ago
If it wasn't for ad revenue, do you think you would be able to work on these things that people like and are supposed improvements to people's lives? That there would be funding for such work? Your position is arguably worse than selling out: Others do the dirty work – 'Ads or various "evil" things' – so you can do the nice stuff and claim a clean conscience.
- dsswh 7y ago
  It's a valid point, but to be completely honest, the same point applies to all the rich countries. The only reason we can have the life style we have, i.e. drive a car that costs only 20k, wear clothes that cost 20 usd, have a smartphone for 150 usd and oay for gas only 3 usd us because if slave labor in third world countries and the American military forces make sure to preserve this state of things. Otherwise we'd pay 40 usd for gas, 200k for Mazda 3, 5000 usd for a smartphone and 50 usd for a coffee.
p0nce 7y ago
Your work is funded by ads. Ads are effectively making life worse.
thadjo 7y ago
Honest question: do you want to see Google broken up or heavily regulated? If I were lucky enough to work at Google, I think I'd be cheering for regulation so I could enjoy all the sweet comp and meaningful work without feeling conflicted about the truly dark parts of the company. Isn't that Google a much better Google to work for?
nsomaru 7y ago
As far as I understand, the penalty for not paying taxes is incarceration or heavy fines. The penalty for not working for Google is effectively having to find work somewhere else. Not exactly oranges to oranges. I appreciate that you may be working on things that improve people’s lives. How is that work funded? What would happen to those projects when they are deemed not profitable enough or endanger the evil stuff? I didn’t write that post lightly, but with a heavy heart and a bitter taste in my mouth from a former #1 fan.
- googthrwy_ 7y ago
  I agree its not a perfect analogy but you could argue that you can go live somewhere else too. And yes, a lot of the work is funded by the "evil stuff" but Google is trying to expand their enterprise offerings and their hardware business is growing as well. I expect those to be profitable one day if not already.
  - studentrob 7y ago
    I'm not a googler and I don't think their revenue model is funded by "evil stuff". At least you can choose not to use Google. For broadband ISPs, on the other hand, you have one option. It's pricey and the service is not what it should be. If people told me to feel badly about working for Google I'd tell them something not nice. There are real monopolies in the tech world, and Google isn't one of them.
  - prepend 7y ago
    Moving countries is extremely difficult and sometimes impossible. The US is one of the easiest countries to immigrate to and we only have 14.4% of our population having changes countries (coming in at least) [0]. This LinkedIn article citing BLS stats says the average person will have 12-15 jobs in their lifetime [1]. So I don’t think it’s very comparable to say “you can just change countries.” The vast majority of people are stuck with their country, and the vast majority of people change jobs. It must feel bad to work at Google. Making odd comparisons might be a symptom of explaining how positive things that are cool are still funded by ads that are at least annoying, but seem to be turning out to be anticompetitive and fraudulent even. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_to_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_to_the_United_Stat... [1] https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/how-many-jobs-average-person-have-his-her-lifetime-scott-marker https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/how-many-jobs-average-person-...
dylan604 7y ago
>Many of us work on things that people like and improve our lives. Why is it that the things that Google creates that might actually "improve our lives" only last long enough to get people hooked into the G before said product is end of lifed? I do not use a broad brush and paint 100% of Google employees as doing evil. However, I always think of the Grisham novel The Firm when thinking about Google. They lure very young, bright, talented employees in with the lure of very large pay checks. By the time said employees become aware of what the company actually represents, they are too entrenched into the lifestyles to "which they have become accustomed". At the same time, the users are lured in with free apps/tools/services that seem quite useful. Whether these apps/tools/services remain long term or not is a crap shoot, but G has you now
luckylion 7y ago
> Many of us work on things that people like and improve our lives. Like what? Services that support the ads monetization, lock in users and strengthen control over the ecosystem?
- mav3rick 7y ago
  Search is just one big example. If you say search hasn't improved humanity then you're a delusional troll.
  - luckylion 7y ago
    It has at some point. Today? Not so much.
  - dang 7y ago
    Please don't break the site guidelines regardless of how misinformed another comment is. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
eitland 7y ago
I feel quite a bit of the same as nsomaru; I've gone from being a naive Google fan to cautiously optimistic about Microsoft. Unlike a bunch of others I never think I despised the majority of people working at neither Microsoft or Google. But for the Chrome team; aren't they now actively undermining and weakening a major part of the Internet infrastructure by nerfing one of the most used clients to make sure it stops acting on behalf of its users?
SomeOldThrow 7y ago
> If parts of the company is doing bad things, it doesn't make all of us sell outs in my opinion. You’re either lying to yourself or you’re naive. Either way it’s not an excuse to dismiss agency.
tibyat 7y ago
this is such a bullshit answer. some people in hitler’s army were just serving soup. You’re getting rich off of the “evil” work, and you get to pretend you’re totally disconnected from it.
conanbatt 7y ago
But all salaries at google come basically from its ad business that does have some taint. You can't take a cut of that and clean your slate because you work on defensible projects. Just take the hit: say you do value Google's work conditions in spite of the questionable things they do. It's honest and acceptable: there are no clean hands in this world.
forgottenpass 7y ago
>If parts of the company is doing bad things, it doesn't make all of us sell outs in my opinion. That's textbook selling out. As is using compartmentalization as rationalization.

flyer428 7y ago

If it wasn't for ad revenue, do you think you would be able to work on these things that people like and are supposed improvements to people's lives? That there would be funding for such work? Your position is arguably worse than selling out: Others do the dirty work – 'Ads or various "evil" things' – so you can do the nice stuff and claim a clean conscience.

dsswh 7y ago
It's a valid point, but to be completely honest, the same point applies to all the rich countries. The only reason we can have the life style we have, i.e. drive a car that costs only 20k, wear clothes that cost 20 usd, have a smartphone for 150 usd and oay for gas only 3 usd us because if slave labor in third world countries and the American military forces make sure to preserve this state of things. Otherwise we'd pay 40 usd for gas, 200k for Mazda 3, 5000 usd for a smartphone and 50 usd for a coffee.

p0nce 7y ago

Your work is funded by ads. Ads are effectively making life worse.

thadjo 7y ago

Honest question: do you want to see Google broken up or heavily regulated? If I were lucky enough to work at Google, I think I'd be cheering for regulation so I could enjoy all the sweet comp and meaningful work without feeling conflicted about the truly dark parts of the company. Isn't that Google a much better Google to work for?

nsomaru 7y ago

As far as I understand, the penalty for not paying taxes is incarceration or heavy fines. The penalty for not working for Google is effectively having to find work somewhere else. Not exactly oranges to oranges. I appreciate that you may be working on things that improve people’s lives. How is that work funded? What would happen to those projects when they are deemed not profitable enough or endanger the evil stuff? I didn’t write that post lightly, but with a heavy heart and a bitter taste in my mouth from a former #1 fan.

googthrwy_ 7y ago
I agree its not a perfect analogy but you could argue that you can go live somewhere else too. And yes, a lot of the work is funded by the "evil stuff" but Google is trying to expand their enterprise offerings and their hardware business is growing as well. I expect those to be profitable one day if not already.
- studentrob 7y ago
  I'm not a googler and I don't think their revenue model is funded by "evil stuff". At least you can choose not to use Google. For broadband ISPs, on the other hand, you have one option. It's pricey and the service is not what it should be. If people told me to feel badly about working for Google I'd tell them something not nice. There are real monopolies in the tech world, and Google isn't one of them.
- prepend 7y ago
  Moving countries is extremely difficult and sometimes impossible. The US is one of the easiest countries to immigrate to and we only have 14.4% of our population having changes countries (coming in at least) [0]. This LinkedIn article citing BLS stats says the average person will have 12-15 jobs in their lifetime [1]. So I don’t think it’s very comparable to say “you can just change countries.” The vast majority of people are stuck with their country, and the vast majority of people change jobs. It must feel bad to work at Google. Making odd comparisons might be a symptom of explaining how positive things that are cool are still funded by ads that are at least annoying, but seem to be turning out to be anticompetitive and fraudulent even. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_to_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_to_the_United_Stat... [1] https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/how-many-jobs-average-person-have-his-her-lifetime-scott-marker https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/how-many-jobs-average-person-...

dylan604 7y ago

>Many of us work on things that people like and improve our lives. Why is it that the things that Google creates that might actually "improve our lives" only last long enough to get people hooked into the G before said product is end of lifed? I do not use a broad brush and paint 100% of Google employees as doing evil. However, I always think of the Grisham novel The Firm when thinking about Google. They lure very young, bright, talented employees in with the lure of very large pay checks. By the time said employees become aware of what the company actually represents, they are too entrenched into the lifestyles to "which they have become accustomed". At the same time, the users are lured in with free apps/tools/services that seem quite useful. Whether these apps/tools/services remain long term or not is a crap shoot, but G has you now

luckylion 7y ago

> Many of us work on things that people like and improve our lives. Like what? Services that support the ads monetization, lock in users and strengthen control over the ecosystem?

mav3rick 7y ago
Search is just one big example. If you say search hasn't improved humanity then you're a delusional troll.
- luckylion 7y ago
  It has at some point. Today? Not so much.
- dang 7y ago
  Please don't break the site guidelines regardless of how misinformed another comment is. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

eitland 7y ago

I feel quite a bit of the same as nsomaru; I've gone from being a naive Google fan to cautiously optimistic about Microsoft. Unlike a bunch of others I never think I despised the majority of people working at neither Microsoft or Google. But for the Chrome team; aren't they now actively undermining and weakening a major part of the Internet infrastructure by nerfing one of the most used clients to make sure it stops acting on behalf of its users?

SomeOldThrow 7y ago

> If parts of the company is doing bad things, it doesn't make all of us sell outs in my opinion. You’re either lying to yourself or you’re naive. Either way it’s not an excuse to dismiss agency.

tibyat 7y ago

this is such a bullshit answer. some people in hitler’s army were just serving soup. You’re getting rich off of the “evil” work, and you get to pretend you’re totally disconnected from it.

conanbatt 7y ago

But all salaries at google come basically from its ad business that does have some taint. You can't take a cut of that and clean your slate because you work on defensible projects. Just take the hit: say you do value Google's work conditions in spite of the questionable things they do. It's honest and acceptable: there are no clean hands in this world.

forgottenpass 7y ago

>If parts of the company is doing bad things, it doesn't make all of us sell outs in my opinion. That's textbook selling out. As is using compartmentalization as rationalization.