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How so? Aren't presentations about a current project's shortcomings/roadmap for improvements pretty standard? I do agree that it speaks well about the develop

by Husafan 18y ago

How so? Aren't presentations about a current project's shortcomings/roadmap for improvements pretty standard? I do agree that it speaks well about the developer, but your opinion about whether Ruby currently sucks or not should be informed by the content of the slides. [edit] I can show you a shoe box and call it a car. I can candidly explain to you how it falls short of current cars, and how I will remedy these problems. All of that does not hide the fact that my shoe box is currently a sucky car.

iloveyouocean 18y ago
You are incorrect to assume my opinion of Ruby wasn't informed by the content of the slides. The slides and the issues they outline were from 2003. Many of those issues have been/are being fixed. The development outlined has taken and is taking place. I view that as a success of the Ruby community and I also believe Ruby to be a good language now that many of these issues are fixed. Therefore, I believe these slides point to good things about Ruby.
- timr 18y ago
  I'll view it as a success of the Ruby community when the issues are fixed. Judging from the list on these slides, I think you're being a bit sanguine about the state of Ruby; at least four of the seven issues are still outstanding.
  - gunderson 18y ago
    Most of them have been fixed, friend. What do you want, someone to act like George W. Bush and claim that everything is going perfectly? Matz is at least willing to see the good and the bad and to openly acknowledge it. Unlike GWB's rhetoric (which you seem to prefer) this is not a religious war. Just use the right tool for the job.
    - icey 18y ago
      I'm sorry, but what the hell are you talking about? How did we go from talking about what's been fixed or not fixed in Ruby to accusing someone of being a Bush propagandist?
      - gunderson 18y ago
        The comparison was intended to highlight that by giving that presentation, Matz is not simply propagandizing Ruby, he's trying to distribute accurate information. The parent of my post seemed to be critical of Matz's approach because it was humble and honest. The implication of that is either that he expects Matz and Ruby to be perfect (an impossible feat) or that he would perfer Matz to simply evangelize Ruby blindly. I personally do not find it distasteful when someone is honest about the shortcomings of their project. It takes humility to do this, and it's totally uncool to rip on someone when they do it.
menloparkbum 18y ago
"Aren't presentations about a current project's shortcomings/roadmap for improvements pretty standard?" no. for instance, presentations about Rails are often about why other things suck (PHP, Java, VC-funded startups, etc.)
- jrockway 18y ago
  That's because most of the Rails fanbois are just that, fanbois. They like Rails, so that means that it's obviously the best thing in the world, and is totally unflawed. But, in reality, all software sucks. If they can't see the suckage, it's just because of their ignorance.
demallien 18y ago
That would be a false dichotomy... A project with shortcomings is not necessarily sucky. It could be a very good project with still more room for improvement if it is to become a brilliant project.

by Husafan 18y ago

iloveyouocean 18y ago

You are incorrect to assume my opinion of Ruby wasn't informed by the content of the slides. The slides and the issues they outline were from 2003. Many of those issues have been/are being fixed. The development outlined has taken and is taking place. I view that as a success of the Ruby community and I also believe Ruby to be a good language now that many of these issues are fixed. Therefore, I believe these slides point to good things about Ruby.

timr 18y ago
I'll view it as a success of the Ruby community when the issues are fixed. Judging from the list on these slides, I think you're being a bit sanguine about the state of Ruby; at least four of the seven issues are still outstanding.
- gunderson 18y ago
  Most of them have been fixed, friend. What do you want, someone to act like George W. Bush and claim that everything is going perfectly? Matz is at least willing to see the good and the bad and to openly acknowledge it. Unlike GWB's rhetoric (which you seem to prefer) this is not a religious war. Just use the right tool for the job.
  - icey 18y ago
    I'm sorry, but what the hell are you talking about? How did we go from talking about what's been fixed or not fixed in Ruby to accusing someone of being a Bush propagandist?
    - gunderson 18y ago
      The comparison was intended to highlight that by giving that presentation, Matz is not simply propagandizing Ruby, he's trying to distribute accurate information. The parent of my post seemed to be critical of Matz's approach because it was humble and honest. The implication of that is either that he expects Matz and Ruby to be perfect (an impossible feat) or that he would perfer Matz to simply evangelize Ruby blindly. I personally do not find it distasteful when someone is honest about the shortcomings of their project. It takes humility to do this, and it's totally uncool to rip on someone when they do it.

menloparkbum 18y ago

"Aren't presentations about a current project's shortcomings/roadmap for improvements pretty standard?" no. for instance, presentations about Rails are often about why other things suck (PHP, Java, VC-funded startups, etc.)

jrockway 18y ago
That's because most of the Rails fanbois are just that, fanbois. They like Rails, so that means that it's obviously the best thing in the world, and is totally unflawed. But, in reality, all software sucks. If they can't see the suckage, it's just because of their ignorance.

demallien 18y ago

That would be a false dichotomy... A project with shortcomings is not necessarily sucky. It could be a very good project with still more room for improvement if it is to become a brilliant project.