5 ms·

The Russian puppet claims only started after Wikileaks started acting like a Russian puppet.

cheeseomlit 7y ago
How's that? Leaking info about corruption in a political party doesn't make them Russian puppets just because you happen to be a member of that party.
- nutjob2 7y ago
  Doing the Russians' bidding by enabling their interference in the US presidential election and openly stating his preference as to the result destroyed any possible credibility as a "journalist" and made him look very much like a Russian puppet. He dug his own grave.
  - cheeseomlit 7y ago
    >Doing the Russians' bidding by enabling their interference in the US presidential election How specifically did he do this? Publishing 'Collateral Murder' embarrassed a lot of people in Washington and probably affected elections afterwards, yet I never heard anyone make these accusations back then. And this hysteria about Russia over 40k worth of Facebook ads and some twitter bots is outrageous, Facebook/Twitters policy of censoring conservatives likely has a much more significant effect on elections than those ads and bots ever could. >openly stating his preference as to the result destroyed any possible credibility as a "journalist" and made him look very much like a Russian puppet. The entirety of the corporate media openly stated their preference during the election as well, to put it lightly.
    - nutjob2 7y ago
      Releasing emails from the DNC is one thing, but releasing them with timing especially to have maximum political impact against one candidate is another thing entirely.
      - lnanek2 7y ago
        Wouldn't it have been dishonest to let people vote before they knew the DNC unfairly treated candidates that polled better against Trump like Sanders despite claiming to be neutral when taking people's money? Releasing after the fact would have been dishonest and less helpful to either party. It also would have been dishonest to people who donated. Yes, the DNC chairman resigned and was immediately given the golden parachute of being hired by the Clinton campaign, but the DNC could have made things right instead of that joke resignation. It's not Wikileak's fault the DNC is corrupt and stayed corrupt instead of doing the right thing, and they did the right thing by giving them a chance.
      - tomp 7y ago
        Timing the release of relevant information for maximum impact is exactly what any self-respecting media organisation should do. Your statement only makes sense if Wikileaks had similar information regarding the Trump (edit: or other conservative) campaign and refused to release it.
        nutjob2 7y ago
        You conveniently ignore the "political impact against one candidate" bit. So your statement only makes sense if you assume that all journalists are trying to influence politics to the benefit of their preferred candidate in their reporting.
        tomp 7y ago
        My point is, unless he also had info on Trump/Republicans, he couldn’t have impacted their campaign. So impact of just one candidate/party was inevitable. Then, optimise for max impact.
    - newvoiceoldphne 7y ago
      He interfered by telling a truth that politicians would rather have remained unknown. He embarrassed the Clinton campaign
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
- gamblor956 7y ago
  No, but knowingly releasing documents that were partially or entirely forged by the Russian intelligence agencies does make one a Russian puppet. Which is exactly what Wikileaks did, openly, at Assange's direction...despite the misgivings of the rest of the staff that the releases were timed for political effect on the US campaign on not out of some desire for the truth.
  - cheeseomlit 7y ago
    This is the first I've heard that the DNC/Podesta emails were forged, do you have a source for that? And personally, assuming the emails are legit, I would rather they release that info before the election when it actually matters instead of afterwards. If a candidate is engaging in collusion/corruption to rig the primary against a competitor (Sanders) and receiving debate questions prior to a debate that's something I'd want voters to know about.
    - gamblor956 7y ago
      https://www.forbes.com/sites/thomasbrewster/2017/05/26/russian-dnc-hackers-planted-leaks-with-fake-data/#50209f5e52ff https://www.forbes.com/sites/thomasbrewster/2017/05/26/russi...
      - cheeseomlit 7y ago
        This is in regards to emails leaked from a journalist David Satter by Fancy Bear, the article doesn't say those were published by Wikileaks and I couldn't confirm elsewhere that they were. The article does mention: >The Clinton campaign warned about the files pilfered from Podesta and published on Wikileaks, though it never offered any proof. While the Podesta emails are believed by US intelligence to have been hacked by Fancy Bear as well, the wikipedia page on the Podesta hack says this: >Cybersecurity experts interviewed by PolitiFact believe the majority of emails are probably unaltered, while stating it is possible that the hackers inserted at least some doctored or fabricated emails. The article then attests that the Clinton campaign, however, has yet to produce any evidence that any specific emails in the latest leak were fraudulent.[4] A subsequent investigation by U.S. intelligence agencies also reported that the files obtained by WikiLeaks during the U.S. election contained no "evident forgeries".[5] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Podesta_emails https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Podesta_emails In regards to the DNC server leaks, there is no convincing evidence the Russians were involved and I do not trust the conclusions of an analysis done by a third-party cyber security company contracted by the DNC (Crowdstrike)
wbhart 7y ago
Is there verifiable intelligence to support this? I recall the Roger Stone story which didn't look like it had much depth to me. And I know Assange had a show on RT for a while. But has any evidence surfaced of an actual conspiracy involving Wikileaks and the Russians? I did notice a big uptick in what I thought was right wing, pro-Trump statements on their twitter feed, and especially on Assange's twitter feed, shortly after Trump was elected. However, I assumed that was part of some strategy to win favour with Trump (perhaps hoping that Wikileaks would become popular with the new administration since Trump had been so pro-Wikileaks during his campaign speeches).
- JudgeWapner 7y ago
  > especially on Assange's twitter feed, shortly after Trump was elected. which was just a couple months after Assange stopped signing anything with his PGP key.
  - wbhart 7y ago
    Interesting observation. I didn't know Assange signed his tweets with a PGP key. What I find odd though is that he hadn't got a message out of the embassy through supporters such as Pamela Anderson that his twitter feed was compromised.
- DiogenesKynikos 7y ago
  His show on RT was actually really good. It's worth your while to give the interviews he conducted a look. People often attack him for his show being aired on RT, but I get the impression most of them haven't watched it. In his interview with Nasrallah, he presses Nasrallah about Hezbollah's support for the Syrian government. It's clear that Assange is critical of Hezbollah's involvement in Syria, which undermines the idea that Assange is a Russian puppet. He also asks Nasrallah about whether God is a tyrant, which elicits an interesting response.
JudgeWapner 7y ago
it's not like he sold them uranium or something.
YUMad 7y ago
The Russian puppet claims only started after Hillary lost to Trump, and they had no recourse but to push forward with the Trump-Russia collusion narrative, which was originally prepared to punish Trump after he loses. Since he won, the holes in narrative were not covered up well, and it has fallen/is falling apart.
- moorhosj 7y ago
  Now you have developed your own conspiracy to prove how wrong other people’s conspiracy was. Do you see the irony? Why did Assange defend Putin after the Panama Papers? I thought he loved transparency. When did Assange start his RT show, funded by the Russian state?

How's that? Leaking info about corruption in a political party doesn't make them Russian puppets just because you happen to be a member of that party.

nutjob2 7y ago
Doing the Russians' bidding by enabling their interference in the US presidential election and openly stating his preference as to the result destroyed any possible credibility as a "journalist" and made him look very much like a Russian puppet. He dug his own grave.
- cheeseomlit 7y ago
  >Doing the Russians' bidding by enabling their interference in the US presidential election How specifically did he do this? Publishing 'Collateral Murder' embarrassed a lot of people in Washington and probably affected elections afterwards, yet I never heard anyone make these accusations back then. And this hysteria about Russia over 40k worth of Facebook ads and some twitter bots is outrageous, Facebook/Twitters policy of censoring conservatives likely has a much more significant effect on elections than those ads and bots ever could. >openly stating his preference as to the result destroyed any possible credibility as a "journalist" and made him look very much like a Russian puppet. The entirety of the corporate media openly stated their preference during the election as well, to put it lightly.
  - nutjob2 7y ago
    Releasing emails from the DNC is one thing, but releasing them with timing especially to have maximum political impact against one candidate is another thing entirely.
    - lnanek2 7y ago
      Wouldn't it have been dishonest to let people vote before they knew the DNC unfairly treated candidates that polled better against Trump like Sanders despite claiming to be neutral when taking people's money? Releasing after the fact would have been dishonest and less helpful to either party. It also would have been dishonest to people who donated. Yes, the DNC chairman resigned and was immediately given the golden parachute of being hired by the Clinton campaign, but the DNC could have made things right instead of that joke resignation. It's not Wikileak's fault the DNC is corrupt and stayed corrupt instead of doing the right thing, and they did the right thing by giving them a chance.
    - tomp 7y ago
      Timing the release of relevant information for maximum impact is exactly what any self-respecting media organisation should do. Your statement only makes sense if Wikileaks had similar information regarding the Trump (edit: or other conservative) campaign and refused to release it.
      - nutjob2 7y ago
        You conveniently ignore the "political impact against one candidate" bit. So your statement only makes sense if you assume that all journalists are trying to influence politics to the benefit of their preferred candidate in their reporting.
        tomp 7y ago
        My point is, unless he also had info on Trump/Republicans, he couldn’t have impacted their campaign. So impact of just one candidate/party was inevitable. Then, optimise for max impact.
  - newvoiceoldphne 7y ago
    He interfered by telling a truth that politicians would rather have remained unknown. He embarrassed the Clinton campaign
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
gamblor956 7y ago
No, but knowingly releasing documents that were partially or entirely forged by the Russian intelligence agencies does make one a Russian puppet. Which is exactly what Wikileaks did, openly, at Assange's direction...despite the misgivings of the rest of the staff that the releases were timed for political effect on the US campaign on not out of some desire for the truth.
- cheeseomlit 7y ago
  This is the first I've heard that the DNC/Podesta emails were forged, do you have a source for that? And personally, assuming the emails are legit, I would rather they release that info before the election when it actually matters instead of afterwards. If a candidate is engaging in collusion/corruption to rig the primary against a competitor (Sanders) and receiving debate questions prior to a debate that's something I'd want voters to know about.
  - gamblor956 7y ago
    https://www.forbes.com/sites/thomasbrewster/2017/05/26/russian-dnc-hackers-planted-leaks-with-fake-data/#50209f5e52ff https://www.forbes.com/sites/thomasbrewster/2017/05/26/russi...
    - cheeseomlit 7y ago
      This is in regards to emails leaked from a journalist David Satter by Fancy Bear, the article doesn't say those were published by Wikileaks and I couldn't confirm elsewhere that they were. The article does mention: >The Clinton campaign warned about the files pilfered from Podesta and published on Wikileaks, though it never offered any proof. While the Podesta emails are believed by US intelligence to have been hacked by Fancy Bear as well, the wikipedia page on the Podesta hack says this: >Cybersecurity experts interviewed by PolitiFact believe the majority of emails are probably unaltered, while stating it is possible that the hackers inserted at least some doctored or fabricated emails. The article then attests that the Clinton campaign, however, has yet to produce any evidence that any specific emails in the latest leak were fraudulent.[4] A subsequent investigation by U.S. intelligence agencies also reported that the files obtained by WikiLeaks during the U.S. election contained no "evident forgeries".[5] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Podesta_emails https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Podesta_emails In regards to the DNC server leaks, there is no convincing evidence the Russians were involved and I do not trust the conclusions of an analysis done by a third-party cyber security company contracted by the DNC (Crowdstrike)

wbhart 7y ago

Is there verifiable intelligence to support this? I recall the Roger Stone story which didn't look like it had much depth to me. And I know Assange had a show on RT for a while. But has any evidence surfaced of an actual conspiracy involving Wikileaks and the Russians? I did notice a big uptick in what I thought was right wing, pro-Trump statements on their twitter feed, and especially on Assange's twitter feed, shortly after Trump was elected. However, I assumed that was part of some strategy to win favour with Trump (perhaps hoping that Wikileaks would become popular with the new administration since Trump had been so pro-Wikileaks during his campaign speeches).

JudgeWapner 7y ago
> especially on Assange's twitter feed, shortly after Trump was elected. which was just a couple months after Assange stopped signing anything with his PGP key.
- wbhart 7y ago
  Interesting observation. I didn't know Assange signed his tweets with a PGP key. What I find odd though is that he hadn't got a message out of the embassy through supporters such as Pamela Anderson that his twitter feed was compromised.
DiogenesKynikos 7y ago
His show on RT was actually really good. It's worth your while to give the interviews he conducted a look. People often attack him for his show being aired on RT, but I get the impression most of them haven't watched it. In his interview with Nasrallah, he presses Nasrallah about Hezbollah's support for the Syrian government. It's clear that Assange is critical of Hezbollah's involvement in Syria, which undermines the idea that Assange is a Russian puppet. He also asks Nasrallah about whether God is a tyrant, which elicits an interesting response.

JudgeWapner 7y ago

it's not like he sold them uranium or something.

YUMad 7y ago

The Russian puppet claims only started after Hillary lost to Trump, and they had no recourse but to push forward with the Trump-Russia collusion narrative, which was originally prepared to punish Trump after he loses. Since he won, the holes in narrative were not covered up well, and it has fallen/is falling apart.

moorhosj 7y ago
Now you have developed your own conspiracy to prove how wrong other people’s conspiracy was. Do you see the irony? Why did Assange defend Putin after the Panama Papers? I thought he loved transparency. When did Assange start his RT show, funded by the Russian state?