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They called me gifted as a kid. Tested at a genius level IQ (not that it matters). I barely passed high school. I started my first company while in it. I dro

They called me gifted as a kid. Tested at a genius level IQ (not that it matters). I barely passed high school. I started my first company while in it. I dropped out of my engineering programming. I was teaching other students about computers and was running a business on the side. I am not someone who follows the rules well. My sibling is the polar opposite, they have three Ivy League degrees. They were top 3% of their class. They follow rules well. I’ve been entrepreneuring for a commensurate period of time and overall look back very fondly on what I’ve accomplished and the trajectory of where my career is heading. Even the winter I had to eat peanut butter and whatever I could get for free to survive is something I don’t regret, it was a wake up call for me to take more off the table to survive bad times than to reinvest everything in growth. My sibling has expressed to others that they wonder if they chose the wrong path. I do not wonder these things. My life feels right. Do what you love and it’ll never feel like work.

amelius 7y ago
Thanks for sharing, but why do you refer to your sibling as "they"?
- paulcole 7y ago
  Anonymity most likely.
- RandomBacon 7y ago
  It might make more sense if OP had more than one sibling and forgot to pluralize, but since that was done more than once, OP could have a sibling that doesn't want to be defined as either male or female, hence "sibling" and not "brother" or "sister". (At least that's what I got from watching the TV series, Billions.)
- Gigablah 7y ago
  Possibly a way to avoid revealing gender, for privacy.
- godzillabrennus 7y ago
  My siblings gender is Female. Why does it matter? Did that change your perception of the story?
  - amelius 7y ago
    It was just a detail that seemed a little impersonal which is strange in a personal story; could be me, but in any case don't worry about it.
  - humanrebar 7y ago
    It doesn't matter, but the singular they confused me as well. It took me a second to realize 'they' is your sibling and not some other people entirely.
  - tomp 7y ago
    Yeah, before I read amelius's comment (i.e. after first reading your story) I thought you had multiple siblings.
- bregma 7y ago
  Because the gender of a third person in an anecdote is none of your gods-damned business. Even if that's your fetish.
Bakary 7y ago
As someone who also follows the rules well like your sibling (but isn't gifted), the more time passes the more I understand it to be a serious character flaw.
- lalos 7y ago
  Why/how did you come to that conclusion? I'm surprised to see that self-reflection and conclusion of following rules is a character flaw.
  - jdefr89 7y ago
    As someonbe who obsessively did/does the same. It might be that most who do such things have a detrimental quality that makes them need to live up to social pressures. While obviously blending in is good. It can become unhealthy quickly if you feel the need to constantly portray perfection equanimity in everything you do. In my case "perfection" can prevent "greatness" They may seem like orthogonal qualities but they are probably rooted closer to each other than most would consider.
  - trustfundbaby 7y ago
    yeah me too. fascinated for the answer.
  - Bakary 7y ago
    First of all my statement should be taken with a huge grain of salt. I make no claims towards any sort of universal observation about human nature, but rather a set of general principles that I believe to be worth examining. - Breaking rules can help you grow as a person. Anecdotally, the people from my youth who ended up being the happiest adults were those who tested the boundaries early on and fit the "lovable rogue" archetype. This experimentation gave them leeway to understand themselves better and their mischievous but life-affirming behavior made them paradoxically more appreciated and valued by others than youths who never rocked the boat. The latter are left unsure that they will still be loved in case they stop conforming to expectations.[0] - Many valued traits and rules in the modern world aren't that valuable. To echo Taleb's green lumber story [1], you can spend your time gaining accolades and achievements such as medals on a debating team or knowledge of trivia and then wonder why someone you secretly judge to be inferior to you is doing much better. The reality is that your judgment was based on peripheral metrics that instilled a false sense of superiority, even if those actions may have helped you a bit in some indirect way. What matters are the core traits that help you provide value to others and secure your position in the world. Unfortunately for rule followers, there is an inundation of not-so-useful rules and contests that cloud your judgment. For instance, some people end up in graduate school with no clear interest or purpose because it gives them the illusion that they are being productive and moving forward according to commonly accepted metrics. Or more commonly, you have people taking cold showers or waking up at 4:00 am because they learned that's what the 30 under 30 fellow they just read about does. - As a corollary to this, to be a healthy adult you need to exercise critical thinking and reason from first principles pretty damn often. The most captivating people do seem to have an intuitive understanding of what is essential to a good life and what isn't. They are prepared to examine rules and make bold choices as to whether to follow them or not. Paradoxically, understanding of when you should in fact coöperate with the system allows them to do so more smoothly when the need arises.[2] In the modern world, rules aren't always to the individual's interest. Some people go on a box-ticking spree like godzillabrennus' sibling and end up feeling empty handed. But the entities that draw up those boxes always had their own interests in mind, whether or not the boxes' design was the result of direct action or organic development. The rules can change themselves in an instant, or be completely irrelevant if some other factor changes. In our world, you end up with VCs and billionaires telling underpaid employees to stop moaning, internalize hustle porn and work themselves to death for rewards that will in all likelihood never come. Some of these folks end up spending their hard earned salary on Veblen goods [3] that are simultaneously too expensive to their freedom and too cheap to even give them the status they seek. - Directly linked to that is the notion of ressentiment. [4] To some limited extent, our moral rules can be interpreted as a tool to comfort the weak. If you are too keen to follow the rules, you end up with a ton of ressentiment because you often find yourself trapped in peripheral pursuits. You neglect to fulfill important needs out of a stronger need to conform. You die having never really lived. If you look at people like Trump, they are essentially modern-day Diogenes whether they realize it or not. Their behavior strips away the abstract and peripheral metrics (being classy, having a certain demeanor etc.), leaving only the raw power balance. This creates extreme anger and frustration because a person might look at such an individual and judge him to be inferior according to some ressentiment-based rules but then be unable to reconcile that impression with their obvious relative lack of power and importance. Rule breakers are more aware of the power balance and what society actually rewards and generally tend to pursue that without fear. That doesn't mean they end up being sociopaths (although obviously you have your fair share of those), in fact it can lead them to being better people because they take on traits that others genuinely value. They let go of resentment because they lead a life-affirming existence, whereas many instinctive rule followers find themselves building up a degree of resentment that poisons their character over time. Rule breakers can help others more easily because they are themselves in a stronger psychological position and have more of their needs met. [0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5DTIzzf6ncg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5DTIzzf6ncg [1] https://fs.blog/2016/11/green-lumber-fallacy/ https://fs.blog/2016/11/green-lumber-fallacy/ [2] https://www.cs.virginia.edu/~robins/YouAndYourResearch.html https://www.cs.virginia.edu/~robins/YouAndYourResearch.html [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Veblen_good https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Veblen_good [4] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ressentiment https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ressentiment
hackinthebochs 7y ago
This is bad advice in general. For every person who happens to love something that is lucrative, there are hundreds who love things that won't put food on the table. If your advice doesn't distinguish between the two, its bad advice.
jdefr89 7y ago
Very similar situation. But we are kind of the exception. I just happened to start loving programming/hacking around 6th grade. I spent all my time doing that, mostly sometimes in secret to avoid being viewed as a 'nerd'. Although it paid off, I am just lucky my interest was what happens to be flourishing at the time.
- rewgs 7y ago
  Thank you for this. I don’t think OP realizes the immense luck involved in being a person who is naturally interested in (and also has access to) computers from a young age in the current era. The trick is picking the right thing to be interested in, and the problem is that you can’t force yourself to be interested in something, nor can you predict whether that interest will be lucrative.
fiveoak 7y ago
That's an awesome story, did/do you find it hard as an entrepreneur to get off the ground with a lack of social proof from the ivy league degree? I guess after achieving some level of success from your entrepreneurial endeavors that itself is a far stronger signal of social proof but it seems difficult to "break in". Any tips?
dannykwells 7y ago
While it's nice that this approach worked out for you, this is bad advice in general, - read Cal Newport's "So good they can't ignore you": http://www.calnewport.com/books/so-good/ http://www.calnewport.com/books/so-good/
rifung 7y ago
> Do what you love and it’ll never feel like work. Sorry but I strongly disagree with this advice. Being able to do what you love for work is a huge luxury that most people can not afford. It's much easier to learn to be content or happy with something that makes money than to make money off your interest. Just look at the number of starving artists/actors/musicians on why following your passion doesn't really work for most people. The reality is that being able to get paid for something isn't up to you but society. It isn't even necessarily dictated by how good you are at something. There are many examples of great composers who ended up dying in poverty but whose works of genius survive and are heard to this day.

amelius 7y ago

Thanks for sharing, but why do you refer to your sibling as "they"?

paulcole 7y ago
Anonymity most likely.
RandomBacon 7y ago
It might make more sense if OP had more than one sibling and forgot to pluralize, but since that was done more than once, OP could have a sibling that doesn't want to be defined as either male or female, hence "sibling" and not "brother" or "sister". (At least that's what I got from watching the TV series, Billions.)
Gigablah 7y ago
Possibly a way to avoid revealing gender, for privacy.
godzillabrennus 7y ago
My siblings gender is Female. Why does it matter? Did that change your perception of the story?
- amelius 7y ago
  It was just a detail that seemed a little impersonal which is strange in a personal story; could be me, but in any case don't worry about it.
- humanrebar 7y ago
  It doesn't matter, but the singular they confused me as well. It took me a second to realize 'they' is your sibling and not some other people entirely.
- tomp 7y ago
  Yeah, before I read amelius's comment (i.e. after first reading your story) I thought you had multiple siblings.
bregma 7y ago
Because the gender of a third person in an anecdote is none of your gods-damned business. Even if that's your fetish.

Bakary 7y ago

As someone who also follows the rules well like your sibling (but isn't gifted), the more time passes the more I understand it to be a serious character flaw.

lalos 7y ago
Why/how did you come to that conclusion? I'm surprised to see that self-reflection and conclusion of following rules is a character flaw.
- jdefr89 7y ago
  As someonbe who obsessively did/does the same. It might be that most who do such things have a detrimental quality that makes them need to live up to social pressures. While obviously blending in is good. It can become unhealthy quickly if you feel the need to constantly portray perfection equanimity in everything you do. In my case "perfection" can prevent "greatness" They may seem like orthogonal qualities but they are probably rooted closer to each other than most would consider.
- trustfundbaby 7y ago
  yeah me too. fascinated for the answer.
- Bakary 7y ago
  First of all my statement should be taken with a huge grain of salt. I make no claims towards any sort of universal observation about human nature, but rather a set of general principles that I believe to be worth examining. - Breaking rules can help you grow as a person. Anecdotally, the people from my youth who ended up being the happiest adults were those who tested the boundaries early on and fit the "lovable rogue" archetype. This experimentation gave them leeway to understand themselves better and their mischievous but life-affirming behavior made them paradoxically more appreciated and valued by others than youths who never rocked the boat. The latter are left unsure that they will still be loved in case they stop conforming to expectations.[0] - Many valued traits and rules in the modern world aren't that valuable. To echo Taleb's green lumber story [1], you can spend your time gaining accolades and achievements such as medals on a debating team or knowledge of trivia and then wonder why someone you secretly judge to be inferior to you is doing much better. The reality is that your judgment was based on peripheral metrics that instilled a false sense of superiority, even if those actions may have helped you a bit in some indirect way. What matters are the core traits that help you provide value to others and secure your position in the world. Unfortunately for rule followers, there is an inundation of not-so-useful rules and contests that cloud your judgment. For instance, some people end up in graduate school with no clear interest or purpose because it gives them the illusion that they are being productive and moving forward according to commonly accepted metrics. Or more commonly, you have people taking cold showers or waking up at 4:00 am because they learned that's what the 30 under 30 fellow they just read about does. - As a corollary to this, to be a healthy adult you need to exercise critical thinking and reason from first principles pretty damn often. The most captivating people do seem to have an intuitive understanding of what is essential to a good life and what isn't. They are prepared to examine rules and make bold choices as to whether to follow them or not. Paradoxically, understanding of when you should in fact coöperate with the system allows them to do so more smoothly when the need arises.[2] In the modern world, rules aren't always to the individual's interest. Some people go on a box-ticking spree like godzillabrennus' sibling and end up feeling empty handed. But the entities that draw up those boxes always had their own interests in mind, whether or not the boxes' design was the result of direct action or organic development. The rules can change themselves in an instant, or be completely irrelevant if some other factor changes. In our world, you end up with VCs and billionaires telling underpaid employees to stop moaning, internalize hustle porn and work themselves to death for rewards that will in all likelihood never come. Some of these folks end up spending their hard earned salary on Veblen goods [3] that are simultaneously too expensive to their freedom and too cheap to even give them the status they seek. - Directly linked to that is the notion of ressentiment. [4] To some limited extent, our moral rules can be interpreted as a tool to comfort the weak. If you are too keen to follow the rules, you end up with a ton of ressentiment because you often find yourself trapped in peripheral pursuits. You neglect to fulfill important needs out of a stronger need to conform. You die having never really lived. If you look at people like Trump, they are essentially modern-day Diogenes whether they realize it or not. Their behavior strips away the abstract and peripheral metrics (being classy, having a certain demeanor etc.), leaving only the raw power balance. This creates extreme anger and frustration because a person might look at such an individual and judge him to be inferior according to some ressentiment-based rules but then be unable to reconcile that impression with their obvious relative lack of power and importance. Rule breakers are more aware of the power balance and what society actually rewards and generally tend to pursue that without fear. That doesn't mean they end up being sociopaths (although obviously you have your fair share of those), in fact it can lead them to being better people because they take on traits that others genuinely value. They let go of resentment because they lead a life-affirming existence, whereas many instinctive rule followers find themselves building up a degree of resentment that poisons their character over time. Rule breakers can help others more easily because they are themselves in a stronger psychological position and have more of their needs met. [0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5DTIzzf6ncg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5DTIzzf6ncg [1] https://fs.blog/2016/11/green-lumber-fallacy/ https://fs.blog/2016/11/green-lumber-fallacy/ [2] https://www.cs.virginia.edu/~robins/YouAndYourResearch.html https://www.cs.virginia.edu/~robins/YouAndYourResearch.html [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Veblen_good https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Veblen_good [4] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ressentiment https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ressentiment

hackinthebochs 7y ago

This is bad advice in general. For every person who happens to love something that is lucrative, there are hundreds who love things that won't put food on the table. If your advice doesn't distinguish between the two, its bad advice.

jdefr89 7y ago

Very similar situation. But we are kind of the exception. I just happened to start loving programming/hacking around 6th grade. I spent all my time doing that, mostly sometimes in secret to avoid being viewed as a 'nerd'. Although it paid off, I am just lucky my interest was what happens to be flourishing at the time.

rewgs 7y ago
Thank you for this. I don’t think OP realizes the immense luck involved in being a person who is naturally interested in (and also has access to) computers from a young age in the current era. The trick is picking the right thing to be interested in, and the problem is that you can’t force yourself to be interested in something, nor can you predict whether that interest will be lucrative.

fiveoak 7y ago

That's an awesome story, did/do you find it hard as an entrepreneur to get off the ground with a lack of social proof from the ivy league degree? I guess after achieving some level of success from your entrepreneurial endeavors that itself is a far stronger signal of social proof but it seems difficult to "break in". Any tips?

dannykwells 7y ago

While it's nice that this approach worked out for you, this is bad advice in general, - read Cal Newport's "So good they can't ignore you": http://www.calnewport.com/books/so-good/ http://www.calnewport.com/books/so-good/

rifung 7y ago

> Do what you love and it’ll never feel like work. Sorry but I strongly disagree with this advice. Being able to do what you love for work is a huge luxury that most people can not afford. It's much easier to learn to be content or happy with something that makes money than to make money off your interest. Just look at the number of starving artists/actors/musicians on why following your passion doesn't really work for most people. The reality is that being able to get paid for something isn't up to you but society. It isn't even necessarily dictated by how good you are at something. There are many examples of great composers who ended up dying in poverty but whose works of genius survive and are heard to this day.