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Part of the issue here is defining what it means to “achieve”. I was a gifted child and graduated at the top of my fancy Ivy League university. Did I go on to

• kdelok 7y ago
  It's great that you encourage this attitude in your kids. I had a similar high-achieving story until I experienced some mental health issues during my PhD. I came out the other side realising that what made me happy wasn't a high-octane, top-of-my-field job, but a bunch of other stuff that I went for instead. I mainly feel lucky that I was well-placed to do that, even if some might say I'd wasted some potential.
  • danielecook 7y ago
    Glad you figured things out - but I’m very curious about what you switched to.
    • kdelok 7y ago
      I switched from computational simulation stuff to software engineering (big company, but not FAANG), since I found that the coding was much more rewarding than running the code. I think academia is a great career, but that it is better suited to other people. I like my 9-to-5(ish) job coding up software that people actually use. I also like that when I go home, I don't have the emotional baggage of worrying about work.
  • foobarian 7y ago
    Another similar story here. Got all the way to end of post-doc until I realized I was doing it all for external reasons (immigrant from culture that pushes academics very hard). I definitely won't be pushing my kid the same way. Sometimes I wonder if it is possible to swing the pendulum too much the other way? But I hope to strike a happy medium.
    • cheez 7y ago
      Yes it is possible to push it too far the other way. The immigrant culture that pushes academics very hard simply needs to be amended to add on the part of life that is fun. I pushed my kids hard, encouraged them to have fun and enjoy life, and now they do that on their own. They make their own goals, set out plans to achieve them, getting parental help along the way, but also encouraged them to have fun. For example, my daughter recently asked if she should stay home to study for exams that are about 3 weeks away instead of going on a school trip to a different city. I told her to study her ass off precisely so that she could go without any guilt. She did, and she feels much more rounded and fulfilled. Don't think that what your parents did was so wrong it needs to be corrected. Think of what was missing and what you can do about it.
      • dm3 7y ago
        Do you mind giving an example or two of how you push or pushed your kids in a positive way?
        • cheez 7y ago
          I didn't say I pushed them in a positive way :) Sometimes they need their heads pounded figuratively. But generally, I talk to them about their goals and ask them if they really want them. Usually the answer is yes. Then I say something like "Are you willing to give up some play time with fortnite (or equivalent)" to achieve your goal? Usually the answer is yes. Then I ask them how they will know they are getting closer to their goals. Usually they'll say something that makes no sense (because they're kids) and so we'll google characteristics of getting towards said goal. Then I'll ask them what do they think they should do on a weekly basis so that in 1 month, 6 months, 1 year, they will be at the level they should be in that time. They usually have a good answer based on aforementioned googling. Then I ask them when they plan to make the time for this. Usually they have a good answer for this since they manage their own schedule. Then, my job is just to remind them if they forget and if they are not keeping up, ask them if their goals have changed or why they are not keeping up with their plans. This is the part where sometimes I need to pound them on their heads figuratively.
• lorepieri 7y ago
  Well said. Some people talk about enlightenment. To me, that is nothing else than fully realising that what really matters has actually been at our reach all the time. It's just that it is so difficult to filter out the external pressure to "achieve more".
  • 50 7y ago
    I like what you said about enlightenment. On a similar note, I tend to say, there is no such thing as those enlightened and those veiled in ignorance, we all shimmer from the same inexplicable source. But otherwise, I read this yesterday (and even submitted it onto this site), you might find it interesting: http://merton.org/ITMS/Seasonal/11/11-4Kronenberg.pdf http://merton.org/ITMS/Seasonal/11/11-4Kronenberg.pdf I like the last bit: What I am saying is this: the score is not what matters. Life does not have to be regarded as some game in which scores are kept and somebody wins. If you are too intent on winning, you will never enjoy playing. If you are too obsessed with success, you will forget to live. If you have learned only how to be a success, your life has probably been wasted.
    • monktastic1 7y ago
      "we all shimmer from the same inexplicable source" Just thought I'd say I love this description.
  • mojomark 7y ago
    It may sound ridiculous (you're going to laugh), but when I find myself stressing over superficial things, it helps me to think of the song "The Grand Illusion" by Styx. To me, no words better sum up the odd complexity that has emerged from humanity. It's my mantra. My wife's mantra is equally ridiculous and true: "it just doesn't matter" from Bill Murray's monologue in Meatballs. Maybe one of these mantras will help you. I have to also note that in my ~20yrs of corporate experience, the kinder you are, in concert with being as blunt and truthful as possible, the more people will trust and value your input. I think these traits emerge if you repeat mantra's like the ones above to yourself multiple times a day - when skimming through your emails in the morning (I often just delete or archive all but 1 or 2), when in a meeting that's going in circles or getting heated (I often just smile and leave), when you're running late for work, when you're worried about taking time off, when your air conditioner brakes or you get into a minor fender bender, or $200K of you're employee owned shares are suddenly nullified. It's all a grand illusion, and it just doesn't matter.
• celticninja 7y ago
  Its nice to be important, but it's more important to be nice.
  • ransom1538 7y ago
    The world needs more good people. The world doesn't need more smart people.
    • jsjohnst 7y ago
      We need people who are both.
    • Retra 7y ago
      Being 'good' in a non-smart way is not actually being very good at all.
      • celticninja 7y ago
        That's bullshit, you can be good regardless of your place in life, regardless of what you do or don't have.
        • Retra 7y ago
          That is bullshit, and not at all what I'm trying to say.
    • Humdeee 7y ago
      More good people, more smart people, but much less people overall.
    • Broken_Hippo 7y ago
      Why not? It isn't like smart would mean more motivation or anything. I do think it would have benefits like not being as able to be ripped off or fooled by mostly simple math. I think it'd mean we'd have more knowledgeable nurses and fewer folks that believe medical woo. I'd even argue that being good fails if you aren't smart. "Schools just need to get back to the 3 R's - readin', writing', and 'rithmatic" isn't all ill-intentioned, after all, and is (in part) a complaint that kids aren't ready for the world, but their solution shows ignorance to what the schools teach, why it is taught, and things like that.
• harimau777 7y ago
  Personally, my goals are to have an interesting job (i.e. using a modern tech stack), have the resources to pursue my hobbies, and have the autonomy to be eccentric if I want to. However, meeting those goals require a lot of money. This is especially the case since interesting tech jobs, access to niche resources, and tolerance of alternative lifestyles are all associated with living in a large city. Therefore, I find myself in a situation where making a lot of money isn't my goal, but I feel that I have to do it if I want to achieve my goals.
  • danieldk 7y ago
    Therefore, I find myself in a situation where making a lot of money isn't my goal, but I feel that I have to do it if I want to achieve my goals. Can't you work remotely? There are a lot of smaller cities (at least in Europe) that have a great vibe, are welcoming to all kinds of people, and do not have extreme housing costs. I live in such a city, a large chunk of the population are students, so there is a vibrant social and nightlife. But the city is too small to have a lot of 'big city problems'.
    • nihalot 7y ago
      I'm working remotely but living like a nomad. A month at most in different villages across India. I now miss the city life, and am also considering moving to Europe, perhaps a small city in Germany. Can you share more about these smaller cities? What was your criteria for choosing the city you are in presently?
      • cheschire 7y ago
        Smaller cities present issues in Germany (and Europe as a whole) for a multitude of reasons, for example healthcare[0], reliable bandwidth, older populations[1], etc. Choosing a small city with a train station, however, can dramatically improve your access to most of these things as the trains typically imply population, which typically begets services such as internet, pharmacies, etc. So honestly my first recommendation is filtering small cities by that. 0: https://www.thelocal.de/20181221/germans-turn-to-medibus-as-doctors-desert-villages https://www.thelocal.de/20181221/germans-turn-to-medibus-as-... 1: https://www.handelsblatt.com/today/politics/divided-nation-germanys-growing-urban-rural-split/23572478.html https://www.handelsblatt.com/today/politics/divided-nation-g...
• karmelapple 7y ago
  I’m so glad I had parents who encouraged in me what you are encouraging in your children. I was accepted to a very prestigious university, and as my friends, their parents, and other adults (including some family) found out, there was mostly encouragement to just go there. The attitude was, “why wouldn’t I want to go there? Just think of the opportunity!” They we’re shocked I was thinking of attending a state school instead of automatically saying yes to the prestigious one. My parents were much more practical, pointing out how much it would cost - even after the scholarships I’d be given - and how much debt I’d have at the end of 4 years. They pointed out how difficult it can be to go a long ways away for college sometimes, and how young adults of that age can struggle, especially in the first year. I saw that happen to many friends and acquaintances; leaving to a school far away, only to move back much closer to home after a year or two. One friend who wasn’t strongly encouraging me to go to the prestigious school? Someone who was in a grad program at that prestigious school. He was confident I’d succeed and be happy at either a smaller, state university, or the big name one. When I chose the state school, this friend - who had been pretty neutral up to then - said he was very impressed and happy that I went the way that I did. All the people who hadn’t had that experience seemed pretty hesitantly approving of my choice to go to the state school. “Oh, you chose that one? ... well, good for you!” I later ended up working at the same company as many people from more prestigious schools, and graduating from the state school with no debt let me be a co-founder of a company much earlier in my life than if I had tens of thousands of college debt. I’m totally happy with my choice.
  • throwayEngineer 7y ago
    The whole prestigious school thing means little imo. After you meet a few dunces from a top school and the rare genius who went to CC, you really stop caring. College is what you make it. If you aren't networking a top school, I don't see the purpose, we all learn math.
    • nugget 7y ago
      I would argue that as University education has scaled up and become commoditized, the value of a generic degree as a signaling function has decreased, and that in response the value of matriculation to a top school has only increased. Schools are just brands and become an extension of the personal brands of their students and alums. Unless you're studying a hard science or similar, I'd bet that the value of lower ranked schools will become obsolete sooner.
• eeZah7Ux 7y ago
  Excellent points. > not make the Forbes rich list or a Nobel prize ...not to mention that many scientists gave up opportunities to go after Nobel prizes to focus instead on more meaningful topics of research.
• shiven 7y ago
  In a somewhat similar vein, learning & practicing “deliberate gratitude” saved my sanity. Taking a mindfulness class was what introduced me to the concept, but regular practice of gratitude helped save my mind (and perhaps my life!).
• deleted 7y ago
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• rb808 7y ago
  I completely agree. I think a good life is balanced and not being the best for the sake of being the best. I'm interested in Ivy League universities admissions though. From their point of view I think they want the best of the best I wonder if they try to filter out the people who are smart but would rather enjoy life than change the world.
• tdfx 7y ago
  I've always thought this was the ideal form of parenting. Relax expectations on the children, let them find their own path. I've recently changed my mind and I think offloading the discovery of purpose onto children creates more pressure on them than a moderate pressure to conform to society's existing expectations. What's worse than being unhappy and being told you have no reason to be unhappy? If they discover on their own that they don't care about society's rules and living off in the woods and growing their own food is the key to happiness, so be it. But to assume everyone will be able to develop that path to happiness is optimizing for the edge case. Most people need guard rails for life and to live within a social construct that defines success and failure for them.
• m0zg 7y ago
  What if "being happy" for them means watching Youtube all day and playing computer games? That's what I'm struggling with with my 15 year old. This is currently affecting his GPA to the point where it'd limit his college options to community college, and maybe not even that (since you do have to work even there to not fail). I simply can't convince him that this is not a good use of his time, and he will regret it profoundly later in life.
  • mixmastamyk 7y ago
    When you're "addicted" it is hard to get perspective. Not sure about your situation or feasibility, but banning the activity for 30 days might clear the fog. There are blogs about journalists giving up Twitter temporarily for example. Another angle might be explaining the difference between a creator and consumer.
    • m0zg 7y ago
      His answer to that is he completely refuses to do anything at all in that case. Grades be damned. Now what?
      • mixmastamyk 7y ago
        Still healthier I think. Boredom was a motivator in the old days. Military school might be an option too, haha.
        • m0zg 7y ago
          That's the trouble with armchair parenting advice. "Haha".
          • mixmastamyk 7y ago
            Ask a silly question, get a silly answer.
• anyseguy 7y ago
  If you are happy, you can probably consider yourself successful. If you are 'successful', it is by no means a given that you are happy.