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Please consider to take a wider look. Once TLS is everywhere, it's much harder to cut the ads from pages in a centralized fashion. Another point is that data tr

Please consider to take a wider look. Once TLS is everywhere, it's much harder to cut the ads from pages in a centralized fashion. Another point is that data trends and statistics remain exclusively at the hands of a Big Co. Win-win for Google.

StavrosK 7y ago
I'm not sure what you mean. TLS is everywhere now, and uBlock origin works fine. I don't know what you mean about "the hands of a big Co" either. I think you gravely misunderstand how TLS works.
- garganzol 7y ago
  Don't get me wrong, I'm all in for TLS. But consider this asymmetry: with encryption, all data remains at hands of a Big Co as nobody else can access it. An exclusive access to data at large is a powerful weapon fueling inequality, wars and monopolies.
  - StavrosK 7y ago
    Yeah, this doesn't make any sense, I'm sorry. You seem to not know how encryption works, or please go into some detail on why you think this is.
    - garganzol 7y ago
      Simple. TLS ensures data integrity and protects it from eavesdropping. Here is a conversation between Alice and Bob: Alice <-TLS-> Bob In this scheme, only Alice and Bob can know the details of a conversation. Another conversation with Kevin reveals another scheme: Kevin <-TLS-> Bob See the pattern? Both Alice and Kevin shared their information with Bob. Now imagine that Bob is a Big Co. And it has hundreds of millions conversations every day. In this way, Bob is able to gather big data about all the persons he ever talked to. And because TLS only protects data in transit, Bob now has the privilege of an exclusive access to the gathered data en masse. No other person in the world would be able to access it as Bob claims a total ownership on it. What Bob would do with data? It's an open question. One scenario is to build a graph of relations between the persons and then target them with ads. Another scenario is to target all the persons who ever dared to show signs of non-conformity and disagreement and put them to jail. The possibilities are endless and nobody would be able to prove anything because TLS helped Bob to deter all the eavesdroppers. And now he has the ultimate power to rule the world.
      - StavrosK 7y ago
        Oh I see, so you believe random third parties like your ISP and whoever runs the routers reading your passwords and data in transit is a good thing?
        garganzol 7y ago
        Passwords/control panels should be secure from eavesdropping. TLS perfectly covers this as for now. In order to keep the society from diverging into rampant monopolization and totalitarization, I would propose a modification to TLS that would allow to optionally turn off encryption while preserving data integrity guarantees. News outlets/public resources/Youtube and the whole society would all benefit from using such form of TLS.
        ignaloidas 7y ago
        So you think that it is better to everyone to know everyone's conversations rather than everyone to know just their conversations, because someone could have more conversations and that is not fair. Now that is actually dangerous, because if someone wants to misuse your data, you'd rather them have only your conversation to them, not your conversations to everyone.
        cytzol 7y ago
        > In order to keep the society from diverging into rampant monopolization and totalitarization, I would propose a modification to TLS that would allow to optionally turn off encryption while preserving data integrity guarantees. You can already use TLS with the null cypher to get the data integrity guarantees you want. Apparently Microsoft (back in 2016) did this to for Windows Update: https://twitter.com/SwiftOnSecurity/status/745333018697469953 https://twitter.com/SwiftOnSecurity/status/74533301869746995...
        Dylan16807 7y ago
        In general it's only the large and powerful organizations that have the ability to eavesdrop in the first place! Removing the encryption doesn't help anyone directly. I'm pretty sure you can publish your TLS transcripts, too. This ensures that when you want to share this data with someone they'll actually get it, and allows you to keep it private when you want.
ceejayoz 7y ago
> Once TLS is everywhere, it's much harder to cut the ads from pages in a centralized fashion. Sure, but the reverse is true, too. ISPs have already been abusing NXDOMAIN DNS queries to serve ads for years.

StavrosK 7y ago

I'm not sure what you mean. TLS is everywhere now, and uBlock origin works fine. I don't know what you mean about "the hands of a big Co" either. I think you gravely misunderstand how TLS works.

garganzol 7y ago
Don't get me wrong, I'm all in for TLS. But consider this asymmetry: with encryption, all data remains at hands of a Big Co as nobody else can access it. An exclusive access to data at large is a powerful weapon fueling inequality, wars and monopolies.
- StavrosK 7y ago
  Yeah, this doesn't make any sense, I'm sorry. You seem to not know how encryption works, or please go into some detail on why you think this is.
  - garganzol 7y ago
    Simple. TLS ensures data integrity and protects it from eavesdropping. Here is a conversation between Alice and Bob: Alice <-TLS-> Bob In this scheme, only Alice and Bob can know the details of a conversation. Another conversation with Kevin reveals another scheme: Kevin <-TLS-> Bob See the pattern? Both Alice and Kevin shared their information with Bob. Now imagine that Bob is a Big Co. And it has hundreds of millions conversations every day. In this way, Bob is able to gather big data about all the persons he ever talked to. And because TLS only protects data in transit, Bob now has the privilege of an exclusive access to the gathered data en masse. No other person in the world would be able to access it as Bob claims a total ownership on it. What Bob would do with data? It's an open question. One scenario is to build a graph of relations between the persons and then target them with ads. Another scenario is to target all the persons who ever dared to show signs of non-conformity and disagreement and put them to jail. The possibilities are endless and nobody would be able to prove anything because TLS helped Bob to deter all the eavesdroppers. And now he has the ultimate power to rule the world.
    - StavrosK 7y ago
      Oh I see, so you believe random third parties like your ISP and whoever runs the routers reading your passwords and data in transit is a good thing?
      - garganzol 7y ago
        Passwords/control panels should be secure from eavesdropping. TLS perfectly covers this as for now. In order to keep the society from diverging into rampant monopolization and totalitarization, I would propose a modification to TLS that would allow to optionally turn off encryption while preserving data integrity guarantees. News outlets/public resources/Youtube and the whole society would all benefit from using such form of TLS.
        ignaloidas 7y ago
        So you think that it is better to everyone to know everyone's conversations rather than everyone to know just their conversations, because someone could have more conversations and that is not fair. Now that is actually dangerous, because if someone wants to misuse your data, you'd rather them have only your conversation to them, not your conversations to everyone.
        cytzol 7y ago
        > In order to keep the society from diverging into rampant monopolization and totalitarization, I would propose a modification to TLS that would allow to optionally turn off encryption while preserving data integrity guarantees. You can already use TLS with the null cypher to get the data integrity guarantees you want. Apparently Microsoft (back in 2016) did this to for Windows Update: https://twitter.com/SwiftOnSecurity/status/745333018697469953 https://twitter.com/SwiftOnSecurity/status/74533301869746995...
        Dylan16807 7y ago
        In general it's only the large and powerful organizations that have the ability to eavesdrop in the first place! Removing the encryption doesn't help anyone directly. I'm pretty sure you can publish your TLS transcripts, too. This ensures that when you want to share this data with someone they'll actually get it, and allows you to keep it private when you want.

ceejayoz 7y ago

> Once TLS is everywhere, it's much harder to cut the ads from pages in a centralized fashion. Sure, but the reverse is true, too. ISPs have already been abusing NXDOMAIN DNS queries to serve ads for years.