4 ms·

Extraterrestrial organic matter preserved in 3.33 Ga sediments from Barberton

58 points by _cereal 7y ago

self-inflicted 7y ago
JFC... "Ga"? Is that Giga Anums? Why? Why use such an obscure notation of units? This headline is completely cryptic with such an expression. Is it old? Is that possibly a unit of volume or mass for sediment? I'm not a sediment expert. Are they fossils? Is it a ratio of matter to unit sediments, as a factor of scale and ratio? Barberton? Is that a province? A town? A region? A district? An oblast? WTF is even going on with this headline? Sheesh!
tristanstcyr 7y ago
Some analysis: https://www.sciencealert.com/traces-of-extraterrestrial-organic-matter-discovered-in-south-african-mountains https://www.sciencealert.com/traces-of-extraterrestrial-orga...
- joe_the_user 7y ago
  Still scanning but I think one must keep in mind the distinction between "organic matter" and "biological matter", organic is a broad category that involving a complex array of chemicals that aren't necessarily generated by living things. Biological material or similar terms refer to stuff that definitely is or was once alive. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organic_matter https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organic_matter https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biogenic_substance https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biogenic_substance
  - anthony_romeo 7y ago
    I think the paper stated that the organic matter was similar to those found in some Archaean fossils in the area and other parts of the world, so it seems to be an interesting find Of course it’s all too easy for a layman such as myself to read too deeply into things and draw unfounded conclusions about the origins of life. And if I recall, the rock is newer than the oldest known fossils, so I’ll keep a little distance on that conclusion for now But it was pleasant to read about the earliest known fossils, so that’ll be my current takeaway on this
saintgimp 7y ago
The article uses the word "organic" in a highly technical manner, meaning chemical compounds that contain carbon, and of course we already know that space is filled with that sort of thing. It does NOT mean "organic" in the casual sense of originating from something alive.
- mpoteat 7y ago
  They do mean it that way, though. They mention the possibility of extinct life on Mars in the last paragraph highlight.
  - rebuilder 7y ago
    They mention their finding "highlights the challenges in store for the research for trace of extinct life in Mars.", which seems different to me.
- greglindahl 7y ago
  "Organic chemistry" is a very common usage of organic in that "contains carbon" sense.
  - wyattpeak 7y ago
    For sure, it's entirely appropriate for the abstract, but it bears pointing out to an audience who might not be familiar with that usage.
- _bxg1 7y ago
  As a layman I guessed as much, but wasn't positive. Clickbaity title.
  - pugworthy 7y ago
    Not really - makes a ton of sense if you're an organic chemist.
    - 7y ago
hurrdurr2 7y ago
Just more evidence that life on earth may have been helped along by all this carbon containing/organic matter deposited via meteorites.
- smartial_arts 7y ago
  Very unlikely, as the concentrations would be quite minute. Nick Lane expands on this in "The Vital Question" book.
- bayareanative 7y ago
  That's meaningless. The Earth coalesced from supernova remnants, which included organic compounds, but that doesn't imply living organisms.
ianai 7y ago
Is there any organic chemical that can only be produced by life? Not even sure that’d be possible.
- jerf 7y ago
  Depends on your personal tolerance for the complexity indicated by the word "chemical". The presence of "deoxyribonucleic acid" on its own does not prove life, as that term covers simple cases of it that could conceivably naturally occur. However, if you've got a multi-million base pair chain of the stuff, wrapped up in chromatin, and bespeckled with all manner of useful-looking biochemical doohickeys attached to it, I'm willing to say that's definitely indicative of life. Is that a "chemical"? I'd certainly call that a "molecule" that could only be produced by life.
- CamperBob2 7y ago
  I've read that this question can be answered by looking at the chirality of the chemical(s) in question. If the levorotatory and dextrorotatory isomers are unevenly distributed, that's a hint that the substance originated in biological processes. Not sure if that's still the current thinking, or if it ever was, but I found it interesting when I ran across it.
- danieltillett 7y ago
  In principle or practice? There a large number of secondary product compounds produced by microorganisms that have never been synthetically synthesised, but in theory they all could be. If you want to prove that an organic compound has come from a living system you look for carbon isotope enrichment or depletion - more C12 and less C13 than found in the environment.

58 points by _cereal 7y ago

JFC... "Ga"? Is that Giga Anums? Why? Why use such an obscure notation of units? This headline is completely cryptic with such an expression. Is it old? Is that possibly a unit of volume or mass for sediment? I'm not a sediment expert. Are they fossils? Is it a ratio of matter to unit sediments, as a factor of scale and ratio? Barberton? Is that a province? A town? A region? A district? An oblast? WTF is even going on with this headline? Sheesh!

tristanstcyr 7y ago

Some analysis: https://www.sciencealert.com/traces-of-extraterrestrial-organic-matter-discovered-in-south-african-mountains https://www.sciencealert.com/traces-of-extraterrestrial-orga...

joe_the_user 7y ago
Still scanning but I think one must keep in mind the distinction between "organic matter" and "biological matter", organic is a broad category that involving a complex array of chemicals that aren't necessarily generated by living things. Biological material or similar terms refer to stuff that definitely is or was once alive. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organic_matter https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organic_matter https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biogenic_substance https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biogenic_substance
- anthony_romeo 7y ago
  I think the paper stated that the organic matter was similar to those found in some Archaean fossils in the area and other parts of the world, so it seems to be an interesting find Of course it’s all too easy for a layman such as myself to read too deeply into things and draw unfounded conclusions about the origins of life. And if I recall, the rock is newer than the oldest known fossils, so I’ll keep a little distance on that conclusion for now But it was pleasant to read about the earliest known fossils, so that’ll be my current takeaway on this

saintgimp 7y ago

The article uses the word "organic" in a highly technical manner, meaning chemical compounds that contain carbon, and of course we already know that space is filled with that sort of thing. It does NOT mean "organic" in the casual sense of originating from something alive.

mpoteat 7y ago
They do mean it that way, though. They mention the possibility of extinct life on Mars in the last paragraph highlight.
- rebuilder 7y ago
  They mention their finding "highlights the challenges in store for the research for trace of extinct life in Mars.", which seems different to me.
greglindahl 7y ago
"Organic chemistry" is a very common usage of organic in that "contains carbon" sense.
- wyattpeak 7y ago
  For sure, it's entirely appropriate for the abstract, but it bears pointing out to an audience who might not be familiar with that usage.
_bxg1 7y ago
As a layman I guessed as much, but wasn't positive. Clickbaity title.
- pugworthy 7y ago
  Not really - makes a ton of sense if you're an organic chemist.
  - 7y ago

hurrdurr2 7y ago

Just more evidence that life on earth may have been helped along by all this carbon containing/organic matter deposited via meteorites.

smartial_arts 7y ago
Very unlikely, as the concentrations would be quite minute. Nick Lane expands on this in "The Vital Question" book.
bayareanative 7y ago
That's meaningless. The Earth coalesced from supernova remnants, which included organic compounds, but that doesn't imply living organisms.

ianai 7y ago

Is there any organic chemical that can only be produced by life? Not even sure that’d be possible.

jerf 7y ago
Depends on your personal tolerance for the complexity indicated by the word "chemical". The presence of "deoxyribonucleic acid" on its own does not prove life, as that term covers simple cases of it that could conceivably naturally occur. However, if you've got a multi-million base pair chain of the stuff, wrapped up in chromatin, and bespeckled with all manner of useful-looking biochemical doohickeys attached to it, I'm willing to say that's definitely indicative of life. Is that a "chemical"? I'd certainly call that a "molecule" that could only be produced by life.
CamperBob2 7y ago
I've read that this question can be answered by looking at the chirality of the chemical(s) in question. If the levorotatory and dextrorotatory isomers are unevenly distributed, that's a hint that the substance originated in biological processes. Not sure if that's still the current thinking, or if it ever was, but I found it interesting when I ran across it.
danieltillett 7y ago
In principle or practice? There a large number of secondary product compounds produced by microorganisms that have never been synthetically synthesised, but in theory they all could be. If you want to prove that an organic compound has come from a living system you look for carbon isotope enrichment or depletion - more C12 and less C13 than found in the environment.