8 ms·

I actually like the idea of having consequences for allowing tailgating, assuming the company cares about it. Maybe not firing, at least right away, or if you

I actually like the idea of having consequences for allowing tailgating, assuming the company cares about it. Maybe not firing, at least right away, or if you get tricked/someone sneaks in behind you, but put some teeth in the policy and actually enforce it. If the company just says "don't do it" there is still social pressure to be polite and not slam the door in someone's face. But if there are consequences that everyone knows about then no one is going to begrudge you if you tell them they have to swipe their own way in. Heck, put up signs that say "allowing tailgating is a serious offense" so that visitors are aware as well.

newsoul2019 7y ago
If you really don't want tailgating, put in a man trap.
wang_li 7y ago
Are you prepared to pay your employees a significant premium for the requirement that they engage in fisticuffs with random strangers who may try to tailgate into the building? Tailgating is a problem for your physical security staff, not your run of the mill white collar employee.
- wil421 7y ago
  That’s not true. My workplace has employee only entrances where even visitor/temporary badges don’t work. No one is standing guard and they tell everyone to not allow tailgating.
  - wstuartcl 7y ago
    I would think such a building is not (or should not be) considered high security.
  - ygjb 7y ago
    That's the point. I was in the infantry, am 6'2, and a guy. I don't have a problem with challenging folks who are tailgating. That is not the case for everyone. Do you expect disabled folks to challenge tailgaters? What about physically small people? Setting aside the office dynamics around discrimination issues, how many people actually have the confidence to challenge an unknown person who is tailgating, knowing that there are practically no repercussions for allowing it, versus the fallout of alienating coworkers, potentially senior folks who might react negatively? It's one thing to say "don't let people tailgate", it's quite another to actually enforce a policy that says that unless you provide proper physical security onsite. During security awareness training I always stress that people know who to notify onsite as well as telling them that they can choose to challenge them directly if they encounter someone tailgating.
    - dahfizz 7y ago
      You are getting really hung up on a very tiny edge case. No reasonable manager would punish you for being physically overpowered. That doesn't mean you should encourage people to ignore the security policy. 99.99% of the time, saying to the tailgater "you need to swipe" is enough. If you do work somewhere where people are physically trying to break in often, then you ought to have real security personnel.
      - tbyehl 7y ago
        It's also a very tiny edge case that someone is trying to gain improper or unlawful entry to a workplace. It's not my job to put myself at risk in order to stop an intruder. It's not my job to play policy police with my co-workers, either. My employer recognizes this and uses mantraps to physically prevent tailgating at unguarded entries.
        goerz 7y ago
        You don’t have to put yourself at any risk, but if you work in a secure facility, you are usually explicitly required by contract to “play policy police”. That is, report any security violation like someone jumping the turnstile, or not having a badge.
      - komali2 7y ago
        It's not about being punished for being physically overpowered - it's about being a five foot 3 intern and having someone 6'1 250 lbs, in a suit and in a hurry, behind you, tailgating. The implications are enough to make it a shitty situation for such a person have to turn around and say "sorry person that looks c-suite, you can't come in with me."
        Spooky23 7y ago
        If the company handles this correctly, the intern should feel empowered to tell the CEO to get a visitor badge. It’s also a safety issue. In a building evacuation, you should be able to account for every employee or visitor.
- Scoundreller 7y ago
  Tailgating is a problem when you must keep a log of employee entries (and possibly exits). If you’re just trying to ensure only employees are on-site, tailgating is less of an issue (unless somebody got fired but their colleagues were never told).
- Wowfunhappy 7y ago
  > Are you prepared to pay your employees a significant premium for the requirement that they engage in fisticuffs with random strangers who may try to tailgate into the building? I have zero experience with this, but I imagine the policy would be "Don't enter the building if someone is too close behind you." If you don't feel comfortable asking for space (fine!), turn around, go back to your car, and call building security as necessary. Is this shortsighted?
  - lathiat 7y ago
    I would also expect that if you immediately reported that someone tailgated to security, that it is no longer a fire-able offence.
  - gnicholas 7y ago
    Good point. My brother was radiated into his condo building in D.C. one night. They robbed the office after he went up to his condo. He didn't feel safe refusing then entry, and knew this was a risk of letting them in. After the incident, he was contacted by the building management, who asked him what happened and warned him not to do it again. This seems like a reasonable policy since many people would not have thought in advance what to do if a potentially threatening person tries to tailgate.
    - deleted 7y ago
      [deleted]
  - dylan604 7y ago
    For the guy that has to clock in at 8:30 and is trying to enter the door at 8:29 it is a huge deal.
    - Wowfunhappy 7y ago
      Well, there would be need to also be an understanding that tardiness is acceptible if (!) it’s because you were being tailed.
  - 7y ago
- Spooky23 7y ago
  You have a duty to at least report what is happening if you are threatened.
- briandear 7y ago
  If someone follows you in, simply call security and report it. No confrontation needed.
52-6F-62 7y ago
I rather like my buildings' set up for this— We have passcarded doors and then inside we have gates like many subway stations do that are timed only long enough for one person to pass through. So I can hold the door open for someone on the way in—especially if they have their badge out— but there's nothing I can do about those giant plexi gates once inside. They have to swipe.
- Scoundreller 7y ago
  The city of Toronto would like to hear from you. Our Subway turnstiles keep breaking. And since they’re entry and exit, there’s many methods to enter by triggering the exit side, from umbrellas to a small dog.
  - hatchnyc 7y ago
    The German U-Bahn has a brilliant solution to this. No turnstiles or gates, you're just expected to have a ticket. The penalty for getting caught without a ticket is considered sufficiently high to make "Schwarzfahren" statistically more expensive.
    - dsfyu404ed 7y ago
      "Screw 'em hard enough for breaking the rules and they'll follow the rules out of fear" is generally not considered to be a good model for organizational policy.
      - hatchnyc 7y ago
        ??? But the alternative solution employed around the world is metal bars...
      - baroffoos 7y ago
        For public transport it makes perfect sense. You don't care about people getting on for free, you care about ticket profits falling because of people getting on for free. If the fine is high enough that they totally cover all the lost profit from people not paying the you are doing well.
closeparen 7y ago
You can wave any object at the sensor. Maybe an unauthorized tag will yield a different beep or make the light flash a different color. Maybe the person in front of you will be in a position to see the light on the reader, maybe they'll notice, and maybe they'll consider it odd. Getting that far, and then actually deciding to challenge you or report it, is a vanishingly small chance. There is no point in badging an unlocked door, or in expecting people to do so. You have to actually close it between entries. This is a physically and socially ridiculous thing to do with traditional doors; if it's what you want, you need a turnstile.
- esotericn 7y ago
  Agree. The whole idea of 'challenging tailgating' falls apart because someone walking in after you is not performing a strange act. You would have to actively close the door _on_ people, including your colleagues, which goes against social norms to such an extreme extent that it's just not happening.
  - tim333 7y ago
    With my apartment block people sometimes follow in and I'll ask can I help you or similar if they look iffy.
  - Ntrails 7y ago
    If, as a company, you actually care about tailgating, there is no "challenge" aspect. There's a barrier that lets one person through at a time at most, and you remove any and all social aspects to it.
    - esotericn 7y ago
      Exactly!
  - mdhen 7y ago
    Right, which is why you need a more secure system of entry. I've worked in finance and defense. Finance used turnstiles, defense used some light in person security.
jethro_tell 7y ago
The company has a one strike policy for letting someone use your badge, or letting someone tailgate. They also have people who go out and try to tailgate, and say they left their badge on the other side of the door and ask if you can badge them in, or let them borrow your badge to get theirs. If you help, they walk in and get security and HR and you're done.
chrismcb 7y ago
If you don't want tailgaters then hire bouncer security types to stop people. It isn't my job to put my life on the line.
King-Aaron 7y ago
In my building, we have a similar tailgating policy, and its quite strict. A sign states that it's a federal offense and that police will be contacted. At first I thought it was weird, but since being here I've noticed more and more unmarked and federal police vehicles parked downstairs, and several offices/floors that are unlabeled and used mainly by those guys. I'm guessing there's some kind of diplomatic etc services that go on here which not everyone's privy to.

newsoul2019 7y ago

If you really don't want tailgating, put in a man trap.

wang_li 7y ago

Are you prepared to pay your employees a significant premium for the requirement that they engage in fisticuffs with random strangers who may try to tailgate into the building? Tailgating is a problem for your physical security staff, not your run of the mill white collar employee.

wil421 7y ago
That’s not true. My workplace has employee only entrances where even visitor/temporary badges don’t work. No one is standing guard and they tell everyone to not allow tailgating.
- wstuartcl 7y ago
  I would think such a building is not (or should not be) considered high security.
- ygjb 7y ago
  That's the point. I was in the infantry, am 6'2, and a guy. I don't have a problem with challenging folks who are tailgating. That is not the case for everyone. Do you expect disabled folks to challenge tailgaters? What about physically small people? Setting aside the office dynamics around discrimination issues, how many people actually have the confidence to challenge an unknown person who is tailgating, knowing that there are practically no repercussions for allowing it, versus the fallout of alienating coworkers, potentially senior folks who might react negatively? It's one thing to say "don't let people tailgate", it's quite another to actually enforce a policy that says that unless you provide proper physical security onsite. During security awareness training I always stress that people know who to notify onsite as well as telling them that they can choose to challenge them directly if they encounter someone tailgating.
  - dahfizz 7y ago
    You are getting really hung up on a very tiny edge case. No reasonable manager would punish you for being physically overpowered. That doesn't mean you should encourage people to ignore the security policy. 99.99% of the time, saying to the tailgater "you need to swipe" is enough. If you do work somewhere where people are physically trying to break in often, then you ought to have real security personnel.
    - tbyehl 7y ago
      It's also a very tiny edge case that someone is trying to gain improper or unlawful entry to a workplace. It's not my job to put myself at risk in order to stop an intruder. It's not my job to play policy police with my co-workers, either. My employer recognizes this and uses mantraps to physically prevent tailgating at unguarded entries.
      - goerz 7y ago
        You don’t have to put yourself at any risk, but if you work in a secure facility, you are usually explicitly required by contract to “play policy police”. That is, report any security violation like someone jumping the turnstile, or not having a badge.
    - komali2 7y ago
      It's not about being punished for being physically overpowered - it's about being a five foot 3 intern and having someone 6'1 250 lbs, in a suit and in a hurry, behind you, tailgating. The implications are enough to make it a shitty situation for such a person have to turn around and say "sorry person that looks c-suite, you can't come in with me."
      - Spooky23 7y ago
        If the company handles this correctly, the intern should feel empowered to tell the CEO to get a visitor badge. It’s also a safety issue. In a building evacuation, you should be able to account for every employee or visitor.
Scoundreller 7y ago
Tailgating is a problem when you must keep a log of employee entries (and possibly exits). If you’re just trying to ensure only employees are on-site, tailgating is less of an issue (unless somebody got fired but their colleagues were never told).
Wowfunhappy 7y ago
> Are you prepared to pay your employees a significant premium for the requirement that they engage in fisticuffs with random strangers who may try to tailgate into the building? I have zero experience with this, but I imagine the policy would be "Don't enter the building if someone is too close behind you." If you don't feel comfortable asking for space (fine!), turn around, go back to your car, and call building security as necessary. Is this shortsighted?
- lathiat 7y ago
  I would also expect that if you immediately reported that someone tailgated to security, that it is no longer a fire-able offence.
- gnicholas 7y ago
  Good point. My brother was radiated into his condo building in D.C. one night. They robbed the office after he went up to his condo. He didn't feel safe refusing then entry, and knew this was a risk of letting them in. After the incident, he was contacted by the building management, who asked him what happened and warned him not to do it again. This seems like a reasonable policy since many people would not have thought in advance what to do if a potentially threatening person tries to tailgate.
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
- dylan604 7y ago
  For the guy that has to clock in at 8:30 and is trying to enter the door at 8:29 it is a huge deal.
  - Wowfunhappy 7y ago
    Well, there would be need to also be an understanding that tardiness is acceptible if (!) it’s because you were being tailed.
- 7y ago
Spooky23 7y ago
You have a duty to at least report what is happening if you are threatened.
briandear 7y ago
If someone follows you in, simply call security and report it. No confrontation needed.

52-6F-62 7y ago

I rather like my buildings' set up for this— We have passcarded doors and then inside we have gates like many subway stations do that are timed only long enough for one person to pass through. So I can hold the door open for someone on the way in—especially if they have their badge out— but there's nothing I can do about those giant plexi gates once inside. They have to swipe.

Scoundreller 7y ago
The city of Toronto would like to hear from you. Our Subway turnstiles keep breaking. And since they’re entry and exit, there’s many methods to enter by triggering the exit side, from umbrellas to a small dog.
- hatchnyc 7y ago
  The German U-Bahn has a brilliant solution to this. No turnstiles or gates, you're just expected to have a ticket. The penalty for getting caught without a ticket is considered sufficiently high to make "Schwarzfahren" statistically more expensive.
  - dsfyu404ed 7y ago
    "Screw 'em hard enough for breaking the rules and they'll follow the rules out of fear" is generally not considered to be a good model for organizational policy.
    - hatchnyc 7y ago
      ??? But the alternative solution employed around the world is metal bars...
    - baroffoos 7y ago
      For public transport it makes perfect sense. You don't care about people getting on for free, you care about ticket profits falling because of people getting on for free. If the fine is high enough that they totally cover all the lost profit from people not paying the you are doing well.

closeparen 7y ago

You can wave any object at the sensor. Maybe an unauthorized tag will yield a different beep or make the light flash a different color. Maybe the person in front of you will be in a position to see the light on the reader, maybe they'll notice, and maybe they'll consider it odd. Getting that far, and then actually deciding to challenge you or report it, is a vanishingly small chance. There is no point in badging an unlocked door, or in expecting people to do so. You have to actually close it between entries. This is a physically and socially ridiculous thing to do with traditional doors; if it's what you want, you need a turnstile.

esotericn 7y ago
Agree. The whole idea of 'challenging tailgating' falls apart because someone walking in after you is not performing a strange act. You would have to actively close the door _on_ people, including your colleagues, which goes against social norms to such an extreme extent that it's just not happening.
- tim333 7y ago
  With my apartment block people sometimes follow in and I'll ask can I help you or similar if they look iffy.
- Ntrails 7y ago
  If, as a company, you actually care about tailgating, there is no "challenge" aspect. There's a barrier that lets one person through at a time at most, and you remove any and all social aspects to it.
  - esotericn 7y ago
    Exactly!
- mdhen 7y ago
  Right, which is why you need a more secure system of entry. I've worked in finance and defense. Finance used turnstiles, defense used some light in person security.

jethro_tell 7y ago

The company has a one strike policy for letting someone use your badge, or letting someone tailgate. They also have people who go out and try to tailgate, and say they left their badge on the other side of the door and ask if you can badge them in, or let them borrow your badge to get theirs. If you help, they walk in and get security and HR and you're done.

chrismcb 7y ago

If you don't want tailgaters then hire bouncer security types to stop people. It isn't my job to put my life on the line.

King-Aaron 7y ago

In my building, we have a similar tailgating policy, and its quite strict. A sign states that it's a federal offense and that police will be contacted. At first I thought it was weird, but since being here I've noticed more and more unmarked and federal police vehicles parked downstairs, and several offices/floors that are unlabeled and used mainly by those guys. I'm guessing there's some kind of diplomatic etc services that go on here which not everyone's privy to.