4 ms·

Its disingenuous they list other browsers, but those browsers are only skins for Safari. After years of Android, I genuinely gave Iphone a shot for a few month

Its disingenuous they list other browsers, but those browsers are only skins for Safari. After years of Android, I genuinely gave Iphone a shot for a few months. But not having native Firefox + ublock origin was a deal breaker.

draw_down 7y ago
Understandable. Not having iMessage would be a deal breaker for me. We all have priorities!
- koyote 7y ago
  It's funny that both of your dealbreakers are due to Apple's vendor lock-in policies (Apple not allowing other browser engines and Apple not opening up iMessage to other platforms).
  - draw_down 7y ago
    You win some, you lose some.
saagarjha 7y ago
I’m curious why you care about “native Firefox”: does the engine really make that much of a difference in usability?
- callahad 7y ago
  It makes a huge difference in support for web standards. There are many nice things that Firefox supports which Webkit does not. It also means that we have to lobby Apple to support standards, since we're not allowed to compete on merit (at least for engine-dependant features).
  - codezero 7y ago
    What's an example of a standard Firefox supports that Safari/webkit doesn't? I work with cross-platform client-side JS libraries, though admittedly sticking to pretty vanilla/backwards compatible functionality, and the main thing I've seen that's wonky with Safari is the postMessage API. A few years ago, Firefox finally added the innerText API that many others had already adopted. What other examples are there (this isn't a challenge, I am sure there are issues, just curious for my own knowledge!)
    - callahad 7y ago
      I should really write a script to generate this from MDN's browser compatibility data (https://github.com/mdn/browser-compat-data https://github.com/mdn/browser-compat-data), but many APIs aimed at making browsers more competitive with native apps tend to lag behind or not get implemented at all in Webkit. We only got working IndexedDB as of Safari 10 and Service Workers in Safari 11, both multiple years after support landed in stable Firefox. There's no support for WebXR, Web Push, or WebAuthn. Safari still can't display WebP images, show WebM (VP8/9) movies, or play Opus-formatted sound. Safari doesn't understand the current version of referrer-policy headers. Safari doesn't implement the String.prototype.matchAll() method. There's no support for getDisplayMedia(). Depending on how you count, we've been waiting seven years for getUserMedia() in Safari, and it's still not fully functional. Safari can't animate changes to CSS grid template rows/columns, or use overflow-inline / overflow-block media queries. ...it's a big weird grab bag of features, but a broad surface area nevertheless. And you have to wonder if some fringe APIs wouldn't be more popular if we could actually compete on bringing the full Web platform to iOS devices in a timely manner.
      - codezero 7y ago
        Epic. Thanks so much for sharing. I immediately wondered if I could do some caniuse.com magic to answer my own question.
- pier25 7y ago
  One thing that frequently annoys me about Safari/WkWebView is to tap on a link, see the link change in color so you know the browser has registered a tap event, and nothing happens. You have to tap again to actually navigate to a URL.
- jclardy 7y ago
  As someone with an iPad Pro - Yes, definitely. There are so many sites that are just plain broken on mobile safari. Actually, even Apple's own developer site is terrible on iOS. Views that should scroll to let you see content just plain don't work.
freehunter 7y ago
Ad blockers are definitely supported and there's a healthy market for them. You can't use Firefox's rendering engine, but you can get ad blockers for mobile Safari.
- the_gipsy 7y ago
  There are no addons for iOS' Firefox nor Chrome.
  - freehunter 7y ago
    You don't need a Firefox or Chrome addon to block ads on iOS. It's built into the system and controlled through the system-wide Settings app.

draw_down 7y ago

Understandable. Not having iMessage would be a deal breaker for me. We all have priorities!

koyote 7y ago
It's funny that both of your dealbreakers are due to Apple's vendor lock-in policies (Apple not allowing other browser engines and Apple not opening up iMessage to other platforms).
- draw_down 7y ago
  You win some, you lose some.

saagarjha 7y ago

I’m curious why you care about “native Firefox”: does the engine really make that much of a difference in usability?

callahad 7y ago
It makes a huge difference in support for web standards. There are many nice things that Firefox supports which Webkit does not. It also means that we have to lobby Apple to support standards, since we're not allowed to compete on merit (at least for engine-dependant features).
- codezero 7y ago
  What's an example of a standard Firefox supports that Safari/webkit doesn't? I work with cross-platform client-side JS libraries, though admittedly sticking to pretty vanilla/backwards compatible functionality, and the main thing I've seen that's wonky with Safari is the postMessage API. A few years ago, Firefox finally added the innerText API that many others had already adopted. What other examples are there (this isn't a challenge, I am sure there are issues, just curious for my own knowledge!)
  - callahad 7y ago
    I should really write a script to generate this from MDN's browser compatibility data (https://github.com/mdn/browser-compat-data https://github.com/mdn/browser-compat-data), but many APIs aimed at making browsers more competitive with native apps tend to lag behind or not get implemented at all in Webkit. We only got working IndexedDB as of Safari 10 and Service Workers in Safari 11, both multiple years after support landed in stable Firefox. There's no support for WebXR, Web Push, or WebAuthn. Safari still can't display WebP images, show WebM (VP8/9) movies, or play Opus-formatted sound. Safari doesn't understand the current version of referrer-policy headers. Safari doesn't implement the String.prototype.matchAll() method. There's no support for getDisplayMedia(). Depending on how you count, we've been waiting seven years for getUserMedia() in Safari, and it's still not fully functional. Safari can't animate changes to CSS grid template rows/columns, or use overflow-inline / overflow-block media queries. ...it's a big weird grab bag of features, but a broad surface area nevertheless. And you have to wonder if some fringe APIs wouldn't be more popular if we could actually compete on bringing the full Web platform to iOS devices in a timely manner.
    - codezero 7y ago
      Epic. Thanks so much for sharing. I immediately wondered if I could do some caniuse.com magic to answer my own question.
pier25 7y ago
One thing that frequently annoys me about Safari/WkWebView is to tap on a link, see the link change in color so you know the browser has registered a tap event, and nothing happens. You have to tap again to actually navigate to a URL.
jclardy 7y ago
As someone with an iPad Pro - Yes, definitely. There are so many sites that are just plain broken on mobile safari. Actually, even Apple's own developer site is terrible on iOS. Views that should scroll to let you see content just plain don't work.

freehunter 7y ago

Ad blockers are definitely supported and there's a healthy market for them. You can't use Firefox's rendering engine, but you can get ad blockers for mobile Safari.

the_gipsy 7y ago
There are no addons for iOS' Firefox nor Chrome.
- freehunter 7y ago
  You don't need a Firefox or Chrome addon to block ads on iOS. It's built into the system and controlled through the system-wide Settings app.