6 ms·

The original Spanish expression is "Hoy por ti, mañana por mi", and I find the Golden Rule to be the closest direct application of the concept in a single expre

by bobf 16y ago

The original Spanish expression is "Hoy por ti, mañana por mi", and I find the Golden Rule to be the closest direct application of the concept in a single expression. Interestingly, the three suggested translations of the expression I found were: "You scratch my back and I'll scratch yours", "What goes around, comes around", and "Tit for tat" (http://www.proz.com/kudoz/spanish_to_english/idioms_maxims_sayings/855832-hoy_por_ti_ma%C3%B1ana_por_mi.html http://www.proz.com/kudoz/spanish_to_english/idioms_maxims_s...). However, none of those seem to accurately convey the sentiment/ideal expressed in the original phrase.

nanexcool 16y ago
Yep, except the "scratch" one has a slightly negative connotation of doing something just because the other one will do something in return. The Spanish phrase is a bit more positive.
- bobf 16y ago
  I agree, since there is no implication in the Spanish phrase of "what can you offer in return?". The Golden Rule seems to mesh better with the original ideal expressed. I always find it interesting when literal translation, or convenience in closeness of expressions, are preferred over intended meaning.
- swombat 16y ago
  Actually, the best part about the "you scratch my back and I'll scratch yours" is that it refers to whipping. It's an expression that comes from ship life, where shipmates would be tasked with whipping each other when they misbehaved. The idea was that if you whip me more softly (scratch my back), then when it's my turn to whip you I'll do the same. http://eifuku.co.uk/etymology.htm#You%20scratch%20my%20back%20and%20Ill%20scratch%20yours http://eifuku.co.uk/etymology.htm#You%20scratch%20my%20back%...
  - nanexcool 16y ago
    Didn't know that, thanks!
  - Nick_C 16y ago
    I notice this explanation seems to be commonly favoured by google, but it is unlikely. Floggings in the Royal Navy were done by the bosun's mate, not a random crew member. The bosun and the lieutenants would watch carefully for favouritism. There was no rancour directed towards the mate because everyone knew he was just doing his job. This (below) attributes the phrase to Montaign: http://www.phrases.org.uk/bulletin_board/6/messages/289.html http://www.phrases.org.uk/bulletin_board/6/messages/289.html
maguay 16y ago
"You today ... me tomorrow" is my new favorite "Golden Rule" translation :)
- charliepark 16y ago
  Why would you need a translation?
  - maguay 16y ago
    Maybe I should have said rephrasing instead of translation...
  - malbiniak 16y ago
    Did you accomplish what you set out to do with your comment?
    - charliepark 16y ago
      Seriously? What the fuck. His comment wasn't clear. Was his comment to distance the Golden Rule from Christianity? I'm having a hard time interpreting it otherwise, but that's an ignorant effort, as the "do unto others" concept predates Jesus of Nazareth by 1,000+ years. I'm still not clear on what the point of his comment was; all I did was ask for clarification, with NO commentary at all. Can you clarify his initial intent? If so, please do. Also, I know you might not have been one of the folks to give me downvotes, so I'll address whoever that was separately: Don't just downvote a comment on HN without explaining your beef. This isn't Reddit.
      - deleted 16y ago
        [deleted]
      - tkahn6 16y ago
        Golden Rule from Christianity The Golden Rule comes from Hillel who was a Rabbi. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hillel_the_Elder#The_Golden_Rule http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hillel_the_Elder#The_Golden_Rul...
ptn 16y ago
The beauty of it is that it's always "today".
nagrom 16y ago
There's a similar phrase that doesn't occur in your set of translations but accurately conveys the meaning: "Pay it forward".
- js2 16y ago
  [Pay it forward] was rediscovered and described by Benjamin Franklin, in a letter to Benjamin Webb dated April 22, 1784: I do not pretend to give such a Sum; I only lend it to you. When you [...] meet with another honest Man in similar Distress, you must pay me by lending this Sum to him; enjoining him to discharge the Debt by a like operation, when he shall be able, and shall meet with another opportunity. I hope it may thus go thro' many hands, before it meets with a Knave that will stop its Progress.
- StavrosK 16y ago
  Not really. All those phrases imply that the recipient should take action (except for "what goes around comes around"). "Today you, tomorrow me" means "Today I helped you, tomorrow I might need your help, so you don't need to repay me", but not exactly in a "what goes around comes around" way (it doesn't imply certainty or karma). Basically, the equivalent is probably "it could have been me in your place", I guess.
djtumolo 16y ago
I've been reading a great book called "The Gift" by Lewis Hyde about just this difference in feeling. Like you seemed to intuit, giving is very different from trading. Beautiful OP as well.

by bobf 16y ago

nanexcool 16y ago

Yep, except the "scratch" one has a slightly negative connotation of doing something just because the other one will do something in return. The Spanish phrase is a bit more positive.

bobf 16y ago
I agree, since there is no implication in the Spanish phrase of "what can you offer in return?". The Golden Rule seems to mesh better with the original ideal expressed. I always find it interesting when literal translation, or convenience in closeness of expressions, are preferred over intended meaning.
swombat 16y ago
Actually, the best part about the "you scratch my back and I'll scratch yours" is that it refers to whipping. It's an expression that comes from ship life, where shipmates would be tasked with whipping each other when they misbehaved. The idea was that if you whip me more softly (scratch my back), then when it's my turn to whip you I'll do the same. http://eifuku.co.uk/etymology.htm#You%20scratch%20my%20back%20and%20Ill%20scratch%20yours http://eifuku.co.uk/etymology.htm#You%20scratch%20my%20back%...
- nanexcool 16y ago
  Didn't know that, thanks!
- Nick_C 16y ago
  I notice this explanation seems to be commonly favoured by google, but it is unlikely. Floggings in the Royal Navy were done by the bosun's mate, not a random crew member. The bosun and the lieutenants would watch carefully for favouritism. There was no rancour directed towards the mate because everyone knew he was just doing his job. This (below) attributes the phrase to Montaign: http://www.phrases.org.uk/bulletin_board/6/messages/289.html http://www.phrases.org.uk/bulletin_board/6/messages/289.html

maguay 16y ago

"You today ... me tomorrow" is my new favorite "Golden Rule" translation :)

charliepark 16y ago
Why would you need a translation?
- maguay 16y ago
  Maybe I should have said rephrasing instead of translation...
- malbiniak 16y ago
  Did you accomplish what you set out to do with your comment?
  - charliepark 16y ago
    Seriously? What the fuck. His comment wasn't clear. Was his comment to distance the Golden Rule from Christianity? I'm having a hard time interpreting it otherwise, but that's an ignorant effort, as the "do unto others" concept predates Jesus of Nazareth by 1,000+ years. I'm still not clear on what the point of his comment was; all I did was ask for clarification, with NO commentary at all. Can you clarify his initial intent? If so, please do. Also, I know you might not have been one of the folks to give me downvotes, so I'll address whoever that was separately: Don't just downvote a comment on HN without explaining your beef. This isn't Reddit.
    - deleted 16y ago
      [deleted]
    - tkahn6 16y ago
      Golden Rule from Christianity The Golden Rule comes from Hillel who was a Rabbi. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hillel_the_Elder#The_Golden_Rule http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hillel_the_Elder#The_Golden_Rul...

ptn 16y ago

The beauty of it is that it's always "today".

nagrom 16y ago

There's a similar phrase that doesn't occur in your set of translations but accurately conveys the meaning: "Pay it forward".

js2 16y ago
[Pay it forward] was rediscovered and described by Benjamin Franklin, in a letter to Benjamin Webb dated April 22, 1784: I do not pretend to give such a Sum; I only lend it to you. When you [...] meet with another honest Man in similar Distress, you must pay me by lending this Sum to him; enjoining him to discharge the Debt by a like operation, when he shall be able, and shall meet with another opportunity. I hope it may thus go thro' many hands, before it meets with a Knave that will stop its Progress.
StavrosK 16y ago
Not really. All those phrases imply that the recipient should take action (except for "what goes around comes around"). "Today you, tomorrow me" means "Today I helped you, tomorrow I might need your help, so you don't need to repay me", but not exactly in a "what goes around comes around" way (it doesn't imply certainty or karma). Basically, the equivalent is probably "it could have been me in your place", I guess.

djtumolo 16y ago

I've been reading a great book called "The Gift" by Lewis Hyde about just this difference in feeling. Like you seemed to intuit, giving is very different from trading. Beautiful OP as well.