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No signs at all? All green technology, efficiency improvement and conservation initiatives globally add up to zero in your book? Most reasonable people agree th

No signs at all? All green technology, efficiency improvement and conservation initiatives globally add up to zero in your book? Most reasonable people agree there's much more to be done, perhaps that we're only beginning to scratch the surface of what should be done, but to dismiss it is absurd. We should celebrate and applaud initiatives that are heading in the right direction - for example, UK power plants recently went 5 days with zero coal burning emissions, the longest coal free streak since the industrial revolution.

lotsofpulp 7y ago
All those people in India/China/Brazil/Indonesia want single family detached homes with a yard for their kids and a garage for their cars, and absent a force restricting them from it, they’re going to trend towards it as they get richer. Actually, best hope might be concentrating all jobs in very urban areas and making it costly to get into relationships/have children so women themselves opt out of it and drop the birth rate as they wouldn’t be able to afford the amenities they want.
- JumpCrisscross 7y ago
  > those people in India/China/Brazil/Indonesia want single family detached homes with a yard for their kids and a garage for their cars Source? The world’s population is urbanising. That trend shows no sign of slowing.
  - lotsofpulp 7y ago
    I don't have a good source, other than experience of myself, family, and friends. But once people's kids reach school age, I don't see families sticking around inner cities unless they can afford private school and a nice big apartment, or they're too poor to move out to suburbs where they can stretch out and have some space. The world is urbanizing, but perhaps that is also one of the causes of declining birth rates, as it's not as desirable to raise a family in small, urban apartments.
- thefounder 7y ago
  Birth rates decrease in developed worlds anyway.
  - pbhjpbhj 7y ago
    Below replacement levels? Also, is that going to be common across all cultures?
NeedMoreTea 7y ago
Not zero, but miles from enough. It's a game of brinkmanship with real action pushed far into the future. Certainly UK is dropping coal quickly, and I'm not dismissing that. Yet government has made onshore wind, and domestic solar far more difficult. They're promoting biomass - via imported mature cut wood, and encouraging gas. Drax is still our biggest emitter and an environmental mess. Farming is continuing to ignore decades-long warnings of soil decline, forests globally are still being clear cut and burned for cattle or palm oil. Recycling has become "export the problem and forget about it". Wind, solar and electric vehicles have become viable, yet despite that, overall emissions are still increasing. So beginning to scratch the surface is about right. Real government actions are still avoided.
- pbhjpbhj 7y ago
  Real government action harms the greatest consumers of resources most, those people have the resources to buy politicians. It ain't going to happen easily when the rich-and-powerful's self interests are served by maintaining a foil, a semblance, of environmental concern. Great, you're recycling the plastic food trays your meat is shipped half-way around the World in. Now, ditch the car and use public transport; change your company marketing processes to prefer economy to profit ... oh that's right, you're too important to have to do those sorts of things.
piokoch 7y ago
Yes, but that's because large percentage (70% what I can remember) came from nuclear power plants. If it hadn't been for the "green" movement who spent past 30 years fighting "dangers" of atomic energy maybe we would have been in totally different place and we wouldn't have to worry about global warming, air pollution, etc.
- NeedMoreTea 7y ago
  UK nuclear never gets over about 20-25%. The current - and still ongoing - UK coal-free run, has been on the back of gas (30%), wind(25%) and nuclear(20%). Overall figures as obviously wind and solar can vary widely on individual days. Biomass and solar, and a little bit of hydro make up the rest. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_in_the_United_Kingdom#/media/File:UK_electricity_production_by_source.png https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_in_the_United_Kingdom#/... Almost 11 days without coal: https://www.theguardian.com/environment/ng-interactive/2019/may/25/the-power-switch-tracking-britains-record-coal-free-run https://www.theguardian.com/environment/ng-interactive/2019/...

lotsofpulp 7y ago

All those people in India/China/Brazil/Indonesia want single family detached homes with a yard for their kids and a garage for their cars, and absent a force restricting them from it, they’re going to trend towards it as they get richer. Actually, best hope might be concentrating all jobs in very urban areas and making it costly to get into relationships/have children so women themselves opt out of it and drop the birth rate as they wouldn’t be able to afford the amenities they want.

JumpCrisscross 7y ago
> those people in India/China/Brazil/Indonesia want single family detached homes with a yard for their kids and a garage for their cars Source? The world’s population is urbanising. That trend shows no sign of slowing.
- lotsofpulp 7y ago
  I don't have a good source, other than experience of myself, family, and friends. But once people's kids reach school age, I don't see families sticking around inner cities unless they can afford private school and a nice big apartment, or they're too poor to move out to suburbs where they can stretch out and have some space. The world is urbanizing, but perhaps that is also one of the causes of declining birth rates, as it's not as desirable to raise a family in small, urban apartments.
thefounder 7y ago
Birth rates decrease in developed worlds anyway.
- pbhjpbhj 7y ago
  Below replacement levels? Also, is that going to be common across all cultures?

NeedMoreTea 7y ago

Not zero, but miles from enough. It's a game of brinkmanship with real action pushed far into the future. Certainly UK is dropping coal quickly, and I'm not dismissing that. Yet government has made onshore wind, and domestic solar far more difficult. They're promoting biomass - via imported mature cut wood, and encouraging gas. Drax is still our biggest emitter and an environmental mess. Farming is continuing to ignore decades-long warnings of soil decline, forests globally are still being clear cut and burned for cattle or palm oil. Recycling has become "export the problem and forget about it". Wind, solar and electric vehicles have become viable, yet despite that, overall emissions are still increasing. So beginning to scratch the surface is about right. Real government actions are still avoided.

pbhjpbhj 7y ago
Real government action harms the greatest consumers of resources most, those people have the resources to buy politicians. It ain't going to happen easily when the rich-and-powerful's self interests are served by maintaining a foil, a semblance, of environmental concern. Great, you're recycling the plastic food trays your meat is shipped half-way around the World in. Now, ditch the car and use public transport; change your company marketing processes to prefer economy to profit ... oh that's right, you're too important to have to do those sorts of things.

piokoch 7y ago

Yes, but that's because large percentage (70% what I can remember) came from nuclear power plants. If it hadn't been for the "green" movement who spent past 30 years fighting "dangers" of atomic energy maybe we would have been in totally different place and we wouldn't have to worry about global warming, air pollution, etc.

NeedMoreTea 7y ago
UK nuclear never gets over about 20-25%. The current - and still ongoing - UK coal-free run, has been on the back of gas (30%), wind(25%) and nuclear(20%). Overall figures as obviously wind and solar can vary widely on individual days. Biomass and solar, and a little bit of hydro make up the rest. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_in_the_United_Kingdom#/media/File:UK_electricity_production_by_source.png https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_in_the_United_Kingdom#/... Almost 11 days without coal: https://www.theguardian.com/environment/ng-interactive/2019/may/25/the-power-switch-tracking-britains-record-coal-free-run https://www.theguardian.com/environment/ng-interactive/2019/...