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Those videos were FLIR, not radar. These are trained pilots with experience in identifying flying objects, and the thing that stood out to them is they didn't

by pp19dd 7y ago

Those videos were FLIR, not radar. These are trained pilots with experience in identifying flying objects, and the thing that stood out to them is they didn't see a source of propulsion. The movement characteristics were unlike anything they've seen. The object in question was flagged for their inspection by radar and they followed up visually. What they saw was baffling. The videos came from the aircraft and have been released by the Pentagon. Regarding how many eyes have seen this. Take a read of the Nimitz Carrier Strike Group report of the incident (PDF) which might answer some of your questions and raise others: https://media.lasvegasnow.com/nxsglobal/lasvegasnow/document_dev/2018/05/18/TIC%20TAC%20UFO%20EXECUTIVE%20REPORT_1526682843046_42960218_ver1.0.pdf https://media.lasvegasnow.com/nxsglobal/lasvegasnow/document... Edit: adding a couple of excerpts from the report. - "AAVs would descend "very rapidly" from approximately 60,000 feet down to approximately 50 feet in a matter of seconds. They would then hover or stay stationary on the radar for a short time and depart at high velocities and turn rates" - "The AAV did take evasive actions upon intercept by the F/A-18 demonstrating an advanced acceleration (G), aerodynamic, and propulsion capability." - "The Anomalous Aerial Vehicle (AAV) was no known aircraft or air vehicle currently in the inventory of the United States or any foreign nation." - "The AAV exhibited advanced aerodynamic performance with no visible control surfaces and no visible means to generate lift." So here's what this comes down to. Three possibilities in order of likelihood: * A: Psyop fakery: doctored videos were released through official channels, trying to fool other countries we saw something unusual. But why? Who benefits from that? What does it show to others, that our own military is unaware of experimental technology? * B: Another country has made a giant leap in technology, possibly physics resulting in aerial combat superiority and this should scare any military leader, because if it's real this means the U.S. is no longer the biggest sky predator. * C: Nonterrestrial origin. I don't think there are any other possibilities. Last two are a game changer. First one is just bizarre. The weirdest thing, again, is that these videos were released by the Pentagon. You can request copies yourself by filing a FOIA request with the following wording "seeking cockpit videos cleared for release to Louis Elizondo in the fall (September-October) of 2017."

nradov 7y ago
The other possibility is some sort of odd but natural atmospheric phenomenon.
rpz 7y ago
An additional possibility is that some factions within the u.s. govt are well aware of and use the tech but for some unknown reason a decision was made to finally soft disclose it to the public. Supposing that the videos are genuine, there is some serious, paradigm shifting tech on display here. It's my hope that this is being shown to the public so that the cat comes out of the bag and it forces the people sitting on the tech to come clean. The military industrial complex is a deep and complicated network, who knows what kinds of complex power struggles happen under the noses of the general public.
- nyolfen 7y ago
  or signaling to rivals that it has achieved some new breakthrough without disclosing it?
baobrain 7y ago
In response to your linked PDF, there are a multitude of problems that wikipedia lists about the reporting of the incident https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Nimitz_UFO_incident#Skeptical_analysis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Nimitz_UFO_incident#Skepti...
ineedasername 7y ago
There's another possibility. These reports seem to be coming from a very specific class of pilot. Not just military pilots, but those flying the fastest aircraft. Not from commercial pilots or people just in general watching the sky. (Plane spotting is something many people do). I see one obvious possibility: Accelerating like that is a huge physiological strain, and may very well cause artifacts in vision. For something like the FLIR footage I'm similarly skeptical. Artifacts can appear there as well, and frankly if some unknown research group or ET is able to mask their presence in the visual spectrum, heat signatures ought to be easy, it's tech that already exists.
- JohnBooty 7y ago
  Perhaps in some cases. In some of these cases, your theory requires multiple systems (multiple human eyes, IR cameras, radar) to experience corresponding simultaneous glitches - sometimes aboard multiple craft, some of which are surface ships! One of the incidents was picked up on radar both by the missile cruiser USS Princeton and (faintly) by an EC-2 Hawkeye radar plane. Those radar planes don't pull high G's, and last I checked the USS Princeton sure the heck doesn't. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Nimitz_UFO_incident#Encounter https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Nimitz_UFO_incident#Encoun...
  - ineedasername 7y ago
    Sure, but given thousands uponn thousands of flight hours, multiple simultaneous issues can line up. It's the swiss cheese model of systems failures, a fascinating way of explaining complex failures. Basically it says that if you have the potential for lots of small failures, they may on occasion line up and cause something quite a bit bigger. It's certainly seems more plausible than a phenomenal that no other commercial pilots, plane spotters, or even military pilots flying slower aircraft have reported like this
    - JohnBooty 7y ago
      If these kind of incidents aren't optical illusions or equipment malfunctions (two very big if's!) then the next most likely explanation IMHO is that these are drones being used by foreign nations to probe our nation's defenses and/or send a message to us that they have some very advanced unmanned aircraft. If true (big "if!") that would explain why only military pilots have reported these things.
newnewpdro 7y ago
> A: Psyop fakery: doctored videos were released through official channels, trying to fool other countries we saw something unusual. But why? Who benefits from that? What does it show to others, that our own military is unaware of experimental technology? Perhaps it's an attempt to mislead adversaries into considering the US has exceptional new capabilities. Look at some of the stuff Putin has been leaking suggesting new weapons capabilities. Having credible sightings of arguably top-secret experimental military aircraft doing the impossible can be an effective means toward the same end. Now everyone's left questioning if these videos are real or fake, if these capabilities exist or don't, it's quite ambiguous and I think that's by design.
JohnBooty 7y ago
Psyop fakery: doctored videos were released through official channels, trying to fool other countries we saw something unusual. But why? Who benefits from that? What does it show to others, that our own military is unaware of experimental technology? I'm not saying that any of these possibilities are true, or even likely. But I can think of a few possibilities. 1. Certainly, there may be information that can be gleaned from these videos regarding the capabilities of our own aircraft. And certainly, foreign powers are eager to figure out the exact capabilities of each others' aircraft and other weapons. Suppose the USAF has doctored these videos in such a way that give a slightly skewed impression of the F/A-18's capabilities. Either to have folks under- or over-estimate them. While the Hornets and Super Hornets have been around for decades, they have been continually upgraded, and even leading our foes to under- or over-estimate them by a few percent either way could be meaningful. Could mean the difference in a dogfight, missile attack, whatever. 2. Seems like a good way to for somebody to convince somebody that somebody out there has a highly advanced drone that seems to be several generations ahead of what's currently buzzing around the skies in the world's conflict zones. Heck, maybe the USAF is trying to scare the US government into providing more money to combat real or theoretical advanced drones like these. Again, I'm not espousing any of these possibilities. Just thinking of possible answers to the "who would benefit if this is a US misinformation campaign?" question.
JabavuAdams 7y ago
Trained pilots with the experience you cite regularly bomb friendly troops. The more you learn about perception and neuroscience (in my case to understand AI), the less you should trust people's explanations of what they think they've seen.
e2le 7y ago
You forgot one other possibility, it could simply be some poorly understood environmental phenomena. I'm sure anyone who has being lucky enough to see ball lightning would probably think it's a UFO or a sign from god.

by pp19dd 7y ago

nradov 7y ago

The other possibility is some sort of odd but natural atmospheric phenomenon.

rpz 7y ago

An additional possibility is that some factions within the u.s. govt are well aware of and use the tech but for some unknown reason a decision was made to finally soft disclose it to the public. Supposing that the videos are genuine, there is some serious, paradigm shifting tech on display here. It's my hope that this is being shown to the public so that the cat comes out of the bag and it forces the people sitting on the tech to come clean. The military industrial complex is a deep and complicated network, who knows what kinds of complex power struggles happen under the noses of the general public.

nyolfen 7y ago
or signaling to rivals that it has achieved some new breakthrough without disclosing it?

baobrain 7y ago

In response to your linked PDF, there are a multitude of problems that wikipedia lists about the reporting of the incident https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Nimitz_UFO_incident#Skeptical_analysis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Nimitz_UFO_incident#Skepti...

ineedasername 7y ago

There's another possibility. These reports seem to be coming from a very specific class of pilot. Not just military pilots, but those flying the fastest aircraft. Not from commercial pilots or people just in general watching the sky. (Plane spotting is something many people do). I see one obvious possibility: Accelerating like that is a huge physiological strain, and may very well cause artifacts in vision. For something like the FLIR footage I'm similarly skeptical. Artifacts can appear there as well, and frankly if some unknown research group or ET is able to mask their presence in the visual spectrum, heat signatures ought to be easy, it's tech that already exists.

JohnBooty 7y ago
Perhaps in some cases. In some of these cases, your theory requires multiple systems (multiple human eyes, IR cameras, radar) to experience corresponding simultaneous glitches - sometimes aboard multiple craft, some of which are surface ships! One of the incidents was picked up on radar both by the missile cruiser USS Princeton and (faintly) by an EC-2 Hawkeye radar plane. Those radar planes don't pull high G's, and last I checked the USS Princeton sure the heck doesn't. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Nimitz_UFO_incident#Encounter https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Nimitz_UFO_incident#Encoun...
- ineedasername 7y ago
  Sure, but given thousands uponn thousands of flight hours, multiple simultaneous issues can line up. It's the swiss cheese model of systems failures, a fascinating way of explaining complex failures. Basically it says that if you have the potential for lots of small failures, they may on occasion line up and cause something quite a bit bigger. It's certainly seems more plausible than a phenomenal that no other commercial pilots, plane spotters, or even military pilots flying slower aircraft have reported like this
  - JohnBooty 7y ago
    If these kind of incidents aren't optical illusions or equipment malfunctions (two very big if's!) then the next most likely explanation IMHO is that these are drones being used by foreign nations to probe our nation's defenses and/or send a message to us that they have some very advanced unmanned aircraft. If true (big "if!") that would explain why only military pilots have reported these things.

newnewpdro 7y ago

> A: Psyop fakery: doctored videos were released through official channels, trying to fool other countries we saw something unusual. But why? Who benefits from that? What does it show to others, that our own military is unaware of experimental technology? Perhaps it's an attempt to mislead adversaries into considering the US has exceptional new capabilities. Look at some of the stuff Putin has been leaking suggesting new weapons capabilities. Having credible sightings of arguably top-secret experimental military aircraft doing the impossible can be an effective means toward the same end. Now everyone's left questioning if these videos are real or fake, if these capabilities exist or don't, it's quite ambiguous and I think that's by design.

JohnBooty 7y ago

Psyop fakery: doctored videos were released through official channels, trying to fool other countries we saw something unusual. But why? Who benefits from that? What does it show to others, that our own military is unaware of experimental technology? I'm not saying that any of these possibilities are true, or even likely. But I can think of a few possibilities. 1. Certainly, there may be information that can be gleaned from these videos regarding the capabilities of our own aircraft. And certainly, foreign powers are eager to figure out the exact capabilities of each others' aircraft and other weapons. Suppose the USAF has doctored these videos in such a way that give a slightly skewed impression of the F/A-18's capabilities. Either to have folks under- or over-estimate them. While the Hornets and Super Hornets have been around for decades, they have been continually upgraded, and even leading our foes to under- or over-estimate them by a few percent either way could be meaningful. Could mean the difference in a dogfight, missile attack, whatever. 2. Seems like a good way to for somebody to convince somebody that somebody out there has a highly advanced drone that seems to be several generations ahead of what's currently buzzing around the skies in the world's conflict zones. Heck, maybe the USAF is trying to scare the US government into providing more money to combat real or theoretical advanced drones like these. Again, I'm not espousing any of these possibilities. Just thinking of possible answers to the "who would benefit if this is a US misinformation campaign?" question.

JabavuAdams 7y ago

Trained pilots with the experience you cite regularly bomb friendly troops. The more you learn about perception and neuroscience (in my case to understand AI), the less you should trust people's explanations of what they think they've seen.

e2le 7y ago

You forgot one other possibility, it could simply be some poorly understood environmental phenomena. I'm sure anyone who has being lucky enough to see ball lightning would probably think it's a UFO or a sign from god.