6 ms·

Disgusting animal abuse... There is place for everybody in our cities. Meanwhile in more civilized places: > Fat rat stuck in manhole rescued by firefighters

• forgotmypw 7y ago
  Thank you for saying this. From a non-human-centric perspective, it is essentially mass murder of intelligent, sentient species that has been used as a scapegoat for various "sanitation" problems that were actually the result of human overpopulation.
  • benatkin 7y ago
    The article addresses their status as animals just fine. > Rats were declared a pest in 1950, making rat control mandatory. Rats are a pest because they can survive all over the globe, and in transit, as an invasive species, and multiply quickly. Societies all around the world have independently discovered the need for pest control because of how much damage (including spreading disease) they cause and how difficult population control is, and a term for "pest" exists in multiple languages. There are places that treat them far less humanely, and places where non-pest animals are much less protected.
  • jjoonathan 7y ago
    Yeah, but my perspective is unapologetically human-centric. We've got plenty of our own problems to fix. Being nice to rats is so far down my list of concerns that I'd consider it generous to spend even a modicum of effort on it.
    • forgotmypw 7y ago
      The problem with that perspective is that it ignores the fact that we are living in a fragile and interdependent ecosystem, and it is impossible to harm the rats without harming ourselves in the process.
      • rickycook 7y ago
        rats are not a native species in most places; they are introduced and actually harm native species and ecosystems. the article mentions this
      • jjoonathan 7y ago
        I'm not convinced. However, I am convinced that it's impossible to coddle the rats without harming ourselves in the process.
  • harimau777 7y ago
    Don't they carry disease (or carry parasites that carry disease) and cause lots of damage (e.g. chewing on wires and stuff)? Personally, I always thought they were kind of cute but it still seems like they are something that would need to be managed.
    • nerdponx 7y ago
      They do in fact carry disease. I agree that rats are pretty cute; they make good pets (if you can come to terms with their 2-3 year lifespan). But they absolutely need to be managed, just like any other wildlife population that we are in close contact with.
      • benatkin 7y ago
        I was curious if they were illegal to have as pets in Alberta. It appears they are: https://www.theglobeandmail.com/life/first-person/rats/article37658114/ https://www.theglobeandmail.com/life/first-person/rats/artic...
    • PyroLagus 7y ago
      They were primarily responsible for the spread of the Black Death/Great Plague, one of the worst pandemics in human history, so yes. And I'd like to point out that the plague still exists[1]. Now imagine what could happen if we just gave rats free rein... I'm all for animal rights and sympathy, but harmful pests need to be suppressed or eradicated in the areas where they can do harm, whether that's rats, mosquitoes, or locusts. [1] https://www.cdc.gov/plague/maps/index.html https://www.cdc.gov/plague/maps/index.html
      • forgotmypw 7y ago
        Actually, rats' involvement in the spread of the Black Plague is under question. https://www.history.com/news/rats-didnt-spread-the-black-death-it-was-humans https://www.history.com/news/rats-didnt-spread-the-black-dea... https://news.nationalgeographic.com/2018/01/rats-plague-black-death-humans-lice-health-science/ https://news.nationalgeographic.com/2018/01/rats-plague-blac... https://www.sciencealert.com/black-death-plague-spread-humans-lice-not-rats https://www.sciencealert.com/black-death-plague-spread-human... https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/speaking-of-science/wp/2018/01/16/the-classic-explanation-for-the-black-death-plague-is-wrong-scientists-say/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/speaking-of-science/wp/2...
  • golergka 7y ago
    > From a non-human-centric perspective But you're a human. The only possible reason for you to assume this perspective is if you let your empathy run amok without any checks on it - which is as idiotic with empathy as with any other instinct.
    • forgotmypw 7y ago
      I don't agree that empathizing with other species is letting one's empathy run amok. I think there is a severe deficit of empathy in Western culture.
      • zzo38computer 7y ago
        I think human and other species are both need to live and be permitted to be sufficiently free in the world, but that it is valid to attack them for self defense or for food (not to be mandatory, but only permitted, if it is not endangered species), but not for other reason. There is over population, but over population is mainly the human over population I think, so that is the first thing to solve. However, I also think that you should protect yourself too, if is necessary to do so. Human is not (currently) a endangered species and should not be over protected compared with everyone else (but that does not mean it should be disregarded, either); however, you can protect your own children if needed to be (if you have any; I prefer to don't have any children, to avoid to contribute to such problem).
        • forgotmypw 7y ago
          How is it self-defense to mass-exterminate a largely harmless species that's closely related to us?
          • zzo38computer 7y ago
            I did not say it is. Rather, I think that you should not mass exterminate them, and that isn't a valid self-defense. (I was perhaps being unclear.)
      • 7y ago
  • tuesdayrain 7y ago
    I am unashamed to say that I'm a "human supremacist". I believe that humans are at the top of the food chain for a good reason. If it's necessary to choose, human life should generally always be prioritized over that of other animals. I feel that letting rats thrive rather than removing them to fix sanitation problems is morally wrong. Of course ideally there would be some humane solution like moving them elsewhere, but that's not always feasible. I'm also confident that human overpopulation is a myth, and that all the problems attributed to that would be better fixed by technological improvements instead of somehow reducing the population. Fun fact: the entire population of the world could fit into Texas, and it would still have a population density less than NYC.
    • hshshshshss 7y ago
      It's a pretty sad thought that there are many people like you out there.
      • YUMad 7y ago
        Here's your SJW cookie point: * You live in comfort because countless men like him did hard things and made hard decisions like that. Until you stop using products and environments such men created (cities, cars, public transport, farm food, your digital devices just for a short list of examples), you don't have a high horse to spew your snobbery from on top of. For one point, have you ever heard of plague? For another point, do you know how many mice on avg are killed by the harvesting machines per hectare? Your pompous probably-vegan ass is responsible for countless thousands of those through the food you ate.
        • hshshshshss 7y ago
          You seem awfully offended for someone that isn't doing anything wrong.
          • sieabahlpark 7y ago
            Good troll
• blattimwind 7y ago
  Every German city has a program to deploy rat poision once or twice per year
  • 781 7y ago
    They should all be jailed...
    • sieabahlpark 7y ago
      Hi PETA, how are those kill shelters working out? I guess the only way forward is to create another bubonic plague
      • dang 7y ago
        Posting flamebait will get you banned here. Would you mind reviewing https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and following the rules? Edit: it looks like your account has been using HN primarily for political and ideological battle. We ban accounts that do that, so please don't. I wrote about this recently if anyone wants more information (see last paragraph): https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20013092 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20013092.
        • sieabahlpark 7y ago
          I understand most of my comments on this threat have been battling, but in most other threads I actually do want to spike up discussion. How should I proceed in approaching that? I'm also not trying to incite battle with my mostly conservative views, I feel it shouldn't be an echo chamber for every article.
          • kkarakk 7y ago
            Post articles where the focus is animal welfare? The focus of this article is rats as vermin to be controlled...
• spinach 7y ago
  "There is a place for everybody in our cities" You mean once we destroyed their habitat anyways? All houses, buildings, roads, factories, etc, were all habitats to animals, insects, vegetation, etc, and then they were displaced or killed when the land was cleared for construction. But luckily for us, that was before we moved in or places we don't have to see it. All the items you use are mined and manufactured in buildings or places that destroyed other life on the planet, and then will destroy more once disposed of again. This empathy for rats seems completely misplaced.
• dang 7y ago
  Please don't post take HN threads further into flamewar, no matter how much you love animals. Nationalistic flamebait is particularly unwelcome here, so no more of that please. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html