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I refuse to believe that anyone came up with a crank based input system organically. Here's what I think happened. They decided that they wanted to make a low

I refuse to believe that anyone came up with a crank based input system organically. Here's what I think happened. They decided that they wanted to make a low power black and white game system for people to use while camping. They decided that a crank charger was the best solution for this and went ahead with development. Further into the process they discovered that they couldn't get the power budget low enough to make cranking a viable option, but they were too far along to abandon it completely. Then someone had a brilliant idea. Lets make the crank an input system, and develop crank based games.

dschadd 7y ago
Occam's Razor
- herpes 7y ago
  Sure, but why a crank that's going to snap off, instead of say a scroll-wheel or track-ball? Both of those are mechanically solid and well-established input devices.
throwawaymath 7y ago
I'm skeptical of this explanation only because the idea of cranking a handheld gaming system has been reasonably debunked by a variety of commenters in this very thread. I would expect (possibly naively) that the creators of this hardware knew - at the ideation stage, prior to any meaningful development - that literally cranking the machine to recharge it would never work.
moron4hire 7y ago
I get the impression that you may not have played a lot of indie jam games. A hand-crank is one of the least weird things I've seen done. Hell, I once made a game where the controller was two people arm wrestling each other. At least a crank is practically usable. As a self-described inveterate hobbyist, I completely understand looking around a workshop full of parts and saying "gee, what could we do with that?" And buying parts completely at random just to full future sessions of "Mystery Meat Monday"
- twic 7y ago
  Line Wobbler! https://wobblylabs.com/projects/wobbler https://wobblylabs.com/projects/wobbler
  - onemoresoop 7y ago
    This is so cool! The future looks bright again,im starting to feel we’re gonna survive the touchscreen takeover and will go back to revisit physical analog controllers.
  - rgovostes 7y ago
    I played this at the Videogames exhibit at the Victoria and Albert Museum in London. The breadth of visual effects they can achieve with just a 1-dimensional display is surprising. https://www.vam.ac.uk/exhibitions/videogames https://www.vam.ac.uk/exhibitions/videogames
- joezydeco 7y ago
  Too bad not a lot of people saw Namco's Panic Park: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JaGF4z03UvY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JaGF4z03UvY You're literally shoving the other player out of the way.
- learc83 7y ago
  The tone may not have been clear, but my post was at least partially tongue in cheek. I'm sure someone could come up with this idea and probably did, but getting to the stage of actually releasing a commercial product with a crank makes me think there is more to the story.
Stephen-E 7y ago
Look at some of the other products Teenage Engineering has produced. They have a crank control for the OP-1 (https://teenage.engineering/products/op-1/accessories https://teenage.engineering/products/op-1/accessories) plus other LEGO accessories.
- dmix 7y ago
  So maybe the easier explanation is they hired some good industrial designers, who had happened to previously work on various cranks, and they possibly pitched the idea to the Panic team when asked to design the game device? The point standing that it was an odd choice for a game controller anyway you cut it and most likely wasn't through some UX problem solving process related to games.
  - joezydeco 7y ago
    But what if the wacky random choice of a crank unleashes some new game mechanic we haven't seen before? Wouldn't it be fun to break away from D-pads once in a while?
    - dmix 7y ago
      That’s an R&D/lab question. Not a production device question.
      - joezydeco 7y ago
        I'd like to think there's some nascent game developer out there that would think up something cool once they have their hands on a production piece of equipment. You can't always lab-grow your most creative ideas.
- wodenokoto 7y ago
  It THOSE guys! I’ve never used the OP-1, but I love watching people on YouTube make music on it. It seems like an amazing piece of hardware. Check out “red means recording” https://youtu.be/7z4hoazra_g https://youtu.be/7z4hoazra_g
padobson 7y ago
I think they just read Bret Victor's rant about touchscreen interfaces ruining interface innovation: http://worrydream.com/ABriefRantOnTheFutureOfInteractionDesign/ http://worrydream.com/ABriefRantOnTheFutureOfInteractionDesi...
linsomniac 7y ago
Reminds me of the story of the crank charger for the $100 "One Laptop Per Child" (OLPC), as told by one of the team members: Everyone loved the crank charger built into it, but it exerted really large forces on the chassis. Our industrial designers came to us and said "This is a totally solvable problem: We just need to make the chassis out of milled titanium!" We were like: "Thanks guys, but that's so far out of budget..." When I first saw the Playdate I thought the crank was a really odd use, a one-trick pony. Then I saw that Teenage Engineering was partnering on the design and it totally made sense.
stronglikedan 7y ago
> Some games use the crank exclusively...Some don’t use it at all. Not speculating at all. Just wanted to point that out.
ddebernardy 7y ago
I dunno. Remember this piece of antiquity? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atari_joystick_port#/media/File:Atari-2600-Paddle-Controller-FR.jpg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atari_joystick_port#/media/Fil... It was a great controller for some games, like Breakout.
781 7y ago
You're approaching this from the wrong end. Think about vinyls, cassettes, VHRs, typing machines. It's all about the cool factor, the "authentic", the "vintage". That's where the crank it's coming from. The weirdo typing love letters on a mechanical type writer on the park bench. The weirdo cranking this thing on the subway, with his Air Buds on and the expensive sneakers.
stcredzero 7y ago
I refuse to believe that anyone came up with a crank based input system organically. Is there a Hurdy Gurdy app yet? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hurdy-gurdy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hurdy-gurdy

dschadd 7y ago

Occam's Razor

herpes 7y ago
Sure, but why a crank that's going to snap off, instead of say a scroll-wheel or track-ball? Both of those are mechanically solid and well-established input devices.

throwawaymath 7y ago

I'm skeptical of this explanation only because the idea of cranking a handheld gaming system has been reasonably debunked by a variety of commenters in this very thread. I would expect (possibly naively) that the creators of this hardware knew - at the ideation stage, prior to any meaningful development - that literally cranking the machine to recharge it would never work.

moron4hire 7y ago

I get the impression that you may not have played a lot of indie jam games. A hand-crank is one of the least weird things I've seen done. Hell, I once made a game where the controller was two people arm wrestling each other. At least a crank is practically usable. As a self-described inveterate hobbyist, I completely understand looking around a workshop full of parts and saying "gee, what could we do with that?" And buying parts completely at random just to full future sessions of "Mystery Meat Monday"

twic 7y ago
Line Wobbler! https://wobblylabs.com/projects/wobbler https://wobblylabs.com/projects/wobbler
- onemoresoop 7y ago
  This is so cool! The future looks bright again,im starting to feel we’re gonna survive the touchscreen takeover and will go back to revisit physical analog controllers.
- rgovostes 7y ago
  I played this at the Videogames exhibit at the Victoria and Albert Museum in London. The breadth of visual effects they can achieve with just a 1-dimensional display is surprising. https://www.vam.ac.uk/exhibitions/videogames https://www.vam.ac.uk/exhibitions/videogames
joezydeco 7y ago
Too bad not a lot of people saw Namco's Panic Park: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JaGF4z03UvY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JaGF4z03UvY You're literally shoving the other player out of the way.
learc83 7y ago
The tone may not have been clear, but my post was at least partially tongue in cheek. I'm sure someone could come up with this idea and probably did, but getting to the stage of actually releasing a commercial product with a crank makes me think there is more to the story.

Stephen-E 7y ago

Look at some of the other products Teenage Engineering has produced. They have a crank control for the OP-1 (https://teenage.engineering/products/op-1/accessories https://teenage.engineering/products/op-1/accessories) plus other LEGO accessories.

dmix 7y ago
So maybe the easier explanation is they hired some good industrial designers, who had happened to previously work on various cranks, and they possibly pitched the idea to the Panic team when asked to design the game device? The point standing that it was an odd choice for a game controller anyway you cut it and most likely wasn't through some UX problem solving process related to games.
- joezydeco 7y ago
  But what if the wacky random choice of a crank unleashes some new game mechanic we haven't seen before? Wouldn't it be fun to break away from D-pads once in a while?
  - dmix 7y ago
    That’s an R&D/lab question. Not a production device question.
    - joezydeco 7y ago
      I'd like to think there's some nascent game developer out there that would think up something cool once they have their hands on a production piece of equipment. You can't always lab-grow your most creative ideas.
wodenokoto 7y ago
It THOSE guys! I’ve never used the OP-1, but I love watching people on YouTube make music on it. It seems like an amazing piece of hardware. Check out “red means recording” https://youtu.be/7z4hoazra_g https://youtu.be/7z4hoazra_g

padobson 7y ago

I think they just read Bret Victor's rant about touchscreen interfaces ruining interface innovation: http://worrydream.com/ABriefRantOnTheFutureOfInteractionDesign/ http://worrydream.com/ABriefRantOnTheFutureOfInteractionDesi...

linsomniac 7y ago

Reminds me of the story of the crank charger for the $100 "One Laptop Per Child" (OLPC), as told by one of the team members: Everyone loved the crank charger built into it, but it exerted really large forces on the chassis. Our industrial designers came to us and said "This is a totally solvable problem: We just need to make the chassis out of milled titanium!" We were like: "Thanks guys, but that's so far out of budget..." When I first saw the Playdate I thought the crank was a really odd use, a one-trick pony. Then I saw that Teenage Engineering was partnering on the design and it totally made sense.

stronglikedan 7y ago

> Some games use the crank exclusively...Some don’t use it at all. Not speculating at all. Just wanted to point that out.

ddebernardy 7y ago

I dunno. Remember this piece of antiquity? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atari_joystick_port#/media/File:Atari-2600-Paddle-Controller-FR.jpg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atari_joystick_port#/media/Fil... It was a great controller for some games, like Breakout.

781 7y ago

You're approaching this from the wrong end. Think about vinyls, cassettes, VHRs, typing machines. It's all about the cool factor, the "authentic", the "vintage". That's where the crank it's coming from. The weirdo typing love letters on a mechanical type writer on the park bench. The weirdo cranking this thing on the subway, with his Air Buds on and the expensive sneakers.

stcredzero 7y ago

I refuse to believe that anyone came up with a crank based input system organically. Is there a Hurdy Gurdy app yet? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hurdy-gurdy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hurdy-gurdy