7 ms·

Many people also use the classic Emacs, particularly for larger editing tasks. (Of course, any modern software developer working on an extensive project is unli

Many people also use the classic Emacs, particularly for larger editing tasks. (Of course, any modern software developer working on an extensive project is unlikely to use only a pure text-based editor and should also be familiar with modern graphical IDEs and tools.) Huh?! Unlikely?!

joycian 7y ago
Most people I know use IDE with code style enforcement, automatic variable renaming, unused variable warning, etc.
- Asooka 7y ago
  i.e. Emacs? Or Vim? Or VSCode? Especially with language servers there isn't much difference between the three, except that VSCode is a bit primitive in the editing department, but if it works for you, by all means.
y4mi 7y ago
yes, unlikely. most people use IDE's, very few limit themselves to simple editors. they're very rare but do exist.
- sureaboutthis 7y ago
  So you think emacs is a simple editor, eh?
  - y4mi 7y ago
    Vanilla emacs without config and plugins, started as a terminal application is a simple editor, just the same as vim. Yes. But that is entirely besides the point. The parent was outraged how developers are unlikely to use only simple text editors. And the phrase he was taking an issues with didn't say that emacs is a simple editor either. So you're either willingly misinterpreting everything or just unable to read and understand simple sentences.
  - marcosdumay 7y ago
    I'm reading that "simple" word on the GP as something that doesn't impose a workflow on you. (What's ironically best described by "versatile", but somebody not used to the tool can not use most of the functions.) By any other meaning, emacs and vim wouldn't qualify.
- legends2k 7y ago
  I don't think using a text editor is limiting, using an IDE certainly is. When using Visual Studio, you're definitely limited to Windows. When you're using an IDE, they lock you into a certain set of paradigms. An editor like Vim or Emacs ia great because eventually _the editor adapts itself to the programmer and not the other way around_. Every other configuration of Emacs and Vim have been different, suiting the programmer writing it. People have distros of Emacs/Vim - Doom - Spacemacs - NeoVim Etc.
  - y4mi 7y ago
    > I don't think using a text editor is limiting, using an IDE certainly is. I agree. nonetheless, most developers use IDEs. This in turn means that a developer is unlikely to use only simple editors. Maybe actually read the comment chain you're responding to?
- mruts 7y ago
  Name a feature and I bet Emacs has it.
- neurotrace 7y ago
  I know that Stack Overflow is not representative of developers at large but as of 2018[1] most developers on Stack Overflow use "simple" editors. 1: https://insights.stackoverflow.com/survey/2018#technology-_-most-popular-development-environments https://insights.stackoverflow.com/survey/2018#technology-_-...
  - dfinninger 7y ago
    That question was "select all that apply". VSCode, Visual Studio, Intellij may be fighting for mindshare on laptops, but if you ssh into a server, I bet you're using vim. I mean, sometimes I run vim in the integrated terminal in VSCode. :) Whatever is quicker/handy. I know I answered that question with "VSCode, Sublime, Emacs, and Vim".
Cthulhu_ 7y ago
Yes, not everyone is a unix purist / keyboard warrior. (I've got 10+ years of experience in software development and I just can't get to grips with it, at best I can do basic operations in Vim (for git). Looked at emacs the other day but I need to read a lot of manuals and tutorials and practice to get to grips with it) I'm currently using VS Code, before that it's been IDEA, Atom for a little while (but it was slow), Sublime Text (I still miss it), and much longer ago, notepad++ and eclipse. (the folder I have all my code in is still called "workspace").
- molteanu 7y ago
  Well, let me know if you need help getting started with it. The built in tutorial usually helps. Yes, well, see what happens? Every time fads change or new languages appear, you have to change your editors. What if you could have just one editor for everything? For text files and taking notes, for all the programming languages in the world that you just learn once and learn it well, and be done with it. No more need for new editors.
  - cpach 7y ago
    This is exactly why I stick to Emacs. I have used it since senior high school and haven’t had to switch ever since. Really convenient IMHO. It was the built-in tutorial that got me started. One just needs to type C-h t and then you’re good! Each to their own but that has suited me well at least.
  - AmericanChopper 7y ago
    I’ve never understood getting so passionate about IDEs or editors. I use VScode at the moment. I’d be just as happy using any other number of editors. If I wanted to switch to sublime or webstorm or anything else, it wouldn’t take me very long at all to get it up and running and get back to work. They all do the job I need them for perfectly well.
    - molteanu 7y ago
      Maybe the Blub paradox applies to code editors as well, As long as our hypothetical Blub programmer is looking down the power continuum, he knows he's looking down. Languages less powerful than Blub are obviously less powerful, because they're missing some feature he's used to. But when our hypothetical Blub programmer looks in the other direction, up the power continuum, he doesn't realize he's looking up. What he sees are merely weird languages. He probably considers them about equivalent in power to Blub, but with all this other hairy stuff thrown in as well. Blub is good enough for him, because he thinks in Blub. Emacs is not just a code editor. It will change the way you approach programming. As long as you don't understand it you might (rightfully, I guess) compare it to just "another text editor, only with these weird commands". Some of the stuff that Emacs can do and the way it integrates into your daily activities, cannot be seen in other text editors, so you're not even expecting such benefits from the other tools or realize that they exist out there, in the wild.
legends2k 7y ago
I belong to a 100+ team working on the Chromium code base; a project having 150+ third party sub-projects, all tied up by and build in the command line with a few build tools like GN and ninja. Not one in my team use an IDE because they die merely trying to index everything. Everyone uses a simple editor of choice: Emacs, Vim, VS Code and Notepad++ are the popular choices. Everyone has at least two Bash/CMD instances open. The systems programming world is a different one unlike the web programming world where everything is small and self contained for an IDE and GUI.
- doitLP 7y ago
  Is VS Code not an IDE at this point?
  - nostalgk 7y ago
    It more or less is, my use case for it is more or less Notepad++ with Intellisense and a few of the marketplace apps. I like it though, it's lightweight and I've used it as a text editor a few times. That being said, my most used is probably either regular Notepad or Notepad++ in a Windows env.
- mrmuagi 7y ago
  I tried getting sublime to work with a 60k file code base, I got the indexer down to 20k but the CPU usage of the indexing process was always at 100% when building (diagnostics showed it wasn't doing any index db changes) even though I filtered out most of the build cruft, third party code, and useless sub directories. Vim with cscope/ctags is the best of both worlds. Index your project once -- no penalty when building. Symbolic searching is a must have on any large code base (declaration, usage, etc).

joycian 7y ago

Most people I know use IDE with code style enforcement, automatic variable renaming, unused variable warning, etc.

Asooka 7y ago
i.e. Emacs? Or Vim? Or VSCode? Especially with language servers there isn't much difference between the three, except that VSCode is a bit primitive in the editing department, but if it works for you, by all means.

y4mi 7y ago

yes, unlikely. most people use IDE's, very few limit themselves to simple editors. they're very rare but do exist.

sureaboutthis 7y ago
So you think emacs is a simple editor, eh?
- y4mi 7y ago
  Vanilla emacs without config and plugins, started as a terminal application is a simple editor, just the same as vim. Yes. But that is entirely besides the point. The parent was outraged how developers are unlikely to use only simple text editors. And the phrase he was taking an issues with didn't say that emacs is a simple editor either. So you're either willingly misinterpreting everything or just unable to read and understand simple sentences.
- marcosdumay 7y ago
  I'm reading that "simple" word on the GP as something that doesn't impose a workflow on you. (What's ironically best described by "versatile", but somebody not used to the tool can not use most of the functions.) By any other meaning, emacs and vim wouldn't qualify.
legends2k 7y ago
I don't think using a text editor is limiting, using an IDE certainly is. When using Visual Studio, you're definitely limited to Windows. When you're using an IDE, they lock you into a certain set of paradigms. An editor like Vim or Emacs ia great because eventually _the editor adapts itself to the programmer and not the other way around_. Every other configuration of Emacs and Vim have been different, suiting the programmer writing it. People have distros of Emacs/Vim - Doom - Spacemacs - NeoVim Etc.
- y4mi 7y ago
  > I don't think using a text editor is limiting, using an IDE certainly is. I agree. nonetheless, most developers use IDEs. This in turn means that a developer is unlikely to use only simple editors. Maybe actually read the comment chain you're responding to?
mruts 7y ago
Name a feature and I bet Emacs has it.
neurotrace 7y ago
I know that Stack Overflow is not representative of developers at large but as of 2018[1] most developers on Stack Overflow use "simple" editors. 1: https://insights.stackoverflow.com/survey/2018#technology-_-most-popular-development-environments https://insights.stackoverflow.com/survey/2018#technology-_-...
- dfinninger 7y ago
  That question was "select all that apply". VSCode, Visual Studio, Intellij may be fighting for mindshare on laptops, but if you ssh into a server, I bet you're using vim. I mean, sometimes I run vim in the integrated terminal in VSCode. :) Whatever is quicker/handy. I know I answered that question with "VSCode, Sublime, Emacs, and Vim".

Cthulhu_ 7y ago

Yes, not everyone is a unix purist / keyboard warrior. (I've got 10+ years of experience in software development and I just can't get to grips with it, at best I can do basic operations in Vim (for git). Looked at emacs the other day but I need to read a lot of manuals and tutorials and practice to get to grips with it) I'm currently using VS Code, before that it's been IDEA, Atom for a little while (but it was slow), Sublime Text (I still miss it), and much longer ago, notepad++ and eclipse. (the folder I have all my code in is still called "workspace").

molteanu 7y ago
Well, let me know if you need help getting started with it. The built in tutorial usually helps. Yes, well, see what happens? Every time fads change or new languages appear, you have to change your editors. What if you could have just one editor for everything? For text files and taking notes, for all the programming languages in the world that you just learn once and learn it well, and be done with it. No more need for new editors.
- cpach 7y ago
  This is exactly why I stick to Emacs. I have used it since senior high school and haven’t had to switch ever since. Really convenient IMHO. It was the built-in tutorial that got me started. One just needs to type C-h t and then you’re good! Each to their own but that has suited me well at least.
- AmericanChopper 7y ago
  I’ve never understood getting so passionate about IDEs or editors. I use VScode at the moment. I’d be just as happy using any other number of editors. If I wanted to switch to sublime or webstorm or anything else, it wouldn’t take me very long at all to get it up and running and get back to work. They all do the job I need them for perfectly well.
  - molteanu 7y ago
    Maybe the Blub paradox applies to code editors as well, As long as our hypothetical Blub programmer is looking down the power continuum, he knows he's looking down. Languages less powerful than Blub are obviously less powerful, because they're missing some feature he's used to. But when our hypothetical Blub programmer looks in the other direction, up the power continuum, he doesn't realize he's looking up. What he sees are merely weird languages. He probably considers them about equivalent in power to Blub, but with all this other hairy stuff thrown in as well. Blub is good enough for him, because he thinks in Blub. Emacs is not just a code editor. It will change the way you approach programming. As long as you don't understand it you might (rightfully, I guess) compare it to just "another text editor, only with these weird commands". Some of the stuff that Emacs can do and the way it integrates into your daily activities, cannot be seen in other text editors, so you're not even expecting such benefits from the other tools or realize that they exist out there, in the wild.

legends2k 7y ago

I belong to a 100+ team working on the Chromium code base; a project having 150+ third party sub-projects, all tied up by and build in the command line with a few build tools like GN and ninja. Not one in my team use an IDE because they die merely trying to index everything. Everyone uses a simple editor of choice: Emacs, Vim, VS Code and Notepad++ are the popular choices. Everyone has at least two Bash/CMD instances open. The systems programming world is a different one unlike the web programming world where everything is small and self contained for an IDE and GUI.

doitLP 7y ago
Is VS Code not an IDE at this point?
- nostalgk 7y ago
  It more or less is, my use case for it is more or less Notepad++ with Intellisense and a few of the marketplace apps. I like it though, it's lightweight and I've used it as a text editor a few times. That being said, my most used is probably either regular Notepad or Notepad++ in a Windows env.
mrmuagi 7y ago
I tried getting sublime to work with a 60k file code base, I got the indexer down to 20k but the CPU usage of the indexing process was always at 100% when building (diagnostics showed it wasn't doing any index db changes) even though I filtered out most of the build cruft, third party code, and useless sub directories. Vim with cscope/ctags is the best of both worlds. Index your project once -- no penalty when building. Symbolic searching is a must have on any large code base (declaration, usage, etc).