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I used to think so, but it's not necessarily true. If, for example, we reduced our weekly work hours to 20 or even 30, and we ensured that no worker had any wor

I used to think so, but it's not necessarily true. If, for example, we reduced our weekly work hours to 20 or even 30, and we ensured that no worker had any work responsibilities outside those hours, we could attend our more fundamental needs. Add protections so that no person goes hungry, homeless, or without medical attention and you've almost got an Utopia.

Konnstann 7y ago
The problem with a Marxist Utopia is not in the ideas or in the policies, it lies with the simple fact that humans are the ones carrying those policies out. There's a good quote that sums it up: "power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely." Some group of people will be in charge, and that group of people will exploit the rest. Communism works great in small groups, but breaks down at the population level.
- crankylinuxuser 7y ago
  You're right that statist communism (the ones from the 50's-90's) is an epic failure that turned dictator fiefdoms (companies) into a dictatorship (country). On the ground floor, there was no discernible individual ownership of society shared. And countries like the USSR were not only dictatorships, but virulent military dictatorships.
- davidwitt415 7y ago
  Fair enough, let's test this conversely: The problem with a Capitalist Utopia is not in the ideas or in the policies, it lies with the simple fact that humans are the ones carrying those policies out. There's a good quote that sums it up: "power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely." Some group of people will be in charge, and that group of people will exploit the rest. Capitalism works great for small groups, but breaks down at the population level. Works both ways, so you are not actually proving anything with your statement except showing your ideological blind spot.
  - Konnstann 7y ago
    I don't need to prove anything through my statements, every government striving towards Communism has failed miserably several steps beforehand. Separation of power and limits on the influence of individuals is what keeps corruption at bay. I'm not arguing for unbridled capitalism, nor am I arguing against socialist policies and checks against the formation of oligarchies. I'm arguing that state control of the economy, such as that which comes about when your population is too spread out and large to make decisions in an efficient manner, is inherently flawed and unsustainable.

Konnstann 7y ago

The problem with a Marxist Utopia is not in the ideas or in the policies, it lies with the simple fact that humans are the ones carrying those policies out. There's a good quote that sums it up: "power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely." Some group of people will be in charge, and that group of people will exploit the rest. Communism works great in small groups, but breaks down at the population level.

crankylinuxuser 7y ago
You're right that statist communism (the ones from the 50's-90's) is an epic failure that turned dictator fiefdoms (companies) into a dictatorship (country). On the ground floor, there was no discernible individual ownership of society shared. And countries like the USSR were not only dictatorships, but virulent military dictatorships.
davidwitt415 7y ago
Fair enough, let's test this conversely: The problem with a Capitalist Utopia is not in the ideas or in the policies, it lies with the simple fact that humans are the ones carrying those policies out. There's a good quote that sums it up: "power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely." Some group of people will be in charge, and that group of people will exploit the rest. Capitalism works great for small groups, but breaks down at the population level. Works both ways, so you are not actually proving anything with your statement except showing your ideological blind spot.
- Konnstann 7y ago
  I don't need to prove anything through my statements, every government striving towards Communism has failed miserably several steps beforehand. Separation of power and limits on the influence of individuals is what keeps corruption at bay. I'm not arguing for unbridled capitalism, nor am I arguing against socialist policies and checks against the formation of oligarchies. I'm arguing that state control of the economy, such as that which comes about when your population is too spread out and large to make decisions in an efficient manner, is inherently flawed and unsustainable.