9 ms·

British man banned from US because of text to American girlfriend

79 points by r_singh 7y ago

r_singh 7y ago
Here's the text that caused this: https://imgur.com/O2SbNL8 https://imgur.com/O2SbNL8
- gcb0 7y ago
  a barrage of clingy text messages after a break up. Looks like border patrol was really trying to save the american person in this one case. /rimshot
  - golergka 7y ago
    I think that this is very unkind way to judge a person.
  - goodcanadian 7y ago
    Funny you say that. It would seem to be standard to call the girlfriend to check his story. If she said she didn't want to see him, that would cast a great deal of doubt on his stated reason for coming.
    - mcv 7y ago
      It certainly could be interpreted in a somewhat stalkery way. We have no idea what the girlfriend thinks about this. Calling her could have cleared up a lot. Of course it's also possible they did call her and kicked him out exactly because of something she said. We only have his part of the story. It could be a complete misrepresentation. He also seems rather eager to share lots of private photos of them together. Could be a red flag.
Topgamer7 7y ago
Power tripping border officials.
yholio 7y ago
This has to be the result of some incentive structure that rewards border personnel whenever any scrap of evidence for illegal intention is found. No policeman I ever met was ever so thorough with their job. It's deliberate emigration policy at work.
oxfordmale 7y ago
Basically you need a burner phone when you travel into the USA these days. Make sure you use it for a month before you travel and don't connect it to any of your social media or GMail accounts. I think Huawai phones are going cheap at the moment :-)
severine 7y ago
Can you imagine if the same attention and assumptions were payed to rich people's private money moves and communications?
actionowl 7y ago
Does the US _really_ have a problem with UK citizens overstaying their visa? I highly doubt it, this is insane.
- Sharlin 7y ago
  Not likely, but US border officials can pretty much exercise arbitrary power in deciding who gets in, and they can’t get in trouble for denying entry to a non-citizen Joe B. Nobody.
- dev_north_east 7y ago
  Not British, but two Irish acquaintances of mine were rounded up and deported from the US in the early 2010s. I don't see a problem, they broke the law in illegally moving there. Such practices were common among Irish up until the 2000s. Doesn't happen so much anymore, but then again it is near impossible to legally emigrate there if you're from Ireland.
- rutthenut 7y ago
  Yes, they do have issues with this. Whether UK or any other nationality. Funnily, I have a colleague who overstayed his entry visa by exiting a day late and frequently gets stopped and questioned when he goes back, which he does often as he had since married an American and probably entitled to US and UK passports by now!
  - cheerlessbog 7y ago
    Getting a green card would presumably reduce his border hassles. On the flip side it would require him to file US taxes as long as he retains it no matter where he lives. In my case even with that I got hassled every time - multi hour delays on every arrival because of something screwed up in their records of me. Eventually I went so far as to get citizenship because of the hassle. That requires me to file US taxes for the rest of my life even if I choose to permanently reside outside the US.
- raverbashing 7y ago
  A problem as in "people of that nationality causing problems" probably not as much. A problem as in "it is against our current immigration rules" technically it is correct. Numerically it's probably around < 1% possibly around 0.1%
jopsen 7y ago
Because most illegal immigrants are British, lol :) Being an illegal immigrant in the US is extremely unattractive -- decent jobs require paperwork.
- baybal2 7y ago
  You know, you will be surprised that the charts of biggest illegal immigrant nationalities worldwide is topped by Swiss citizens. Developed countries' citizens consistently outmatch people from undeveloped countries when in comes to immigration crimes almost everywhere
  - polotics 7y ago
    Wow really? Interesting! Citation needed please!
  - raverbashing 7y ago
    > Developed countries' citizens consistently outmatch people from undeveloped countries when in comes to immigration crimes almost everywhere [Citation needed] Just an example, it is assumed the US has around 11Mi undocumented migrants (rough number). Switzerland does not even have that many people.
    - baybal2 7y ago
      Almost always, but not everywhere. For US, yes, other American nationals make ~50% of their illegal immigrants, and that's a phenomenon on its own. But take a bigger sample. Swiss were biggest offenders in Hongkong, Macau, and dozen other tropical vacation destinations. Few years ago, Singapore's biggest offenders after Malaysians happened to be US citizens. India, complicated story... but if you not count Bangladesh citizens, and stateless, I think almost all of OECD members will get to the chart Vietnam, heard that they struggle with US citizens in recent years as well, though mostly Vietnamese Americans African countries, a known story - tourist overstayers
- RickJWagner 7y ago
  But still there are 10s of thousands pouring in every month. The promise of a better life (in the future) for you and your family is a strong one.
threezero 7y ago
Aside from the fact that this article originally came from a sensationalist tabloid (the Sun), there is only the word of the one person, without even a quote from his girlfriend. The whole thing sounds fishy.
- DanBC 7y ago
  It doesn't sound fishy at all. Border patrol routinely check through people's documentation to see if their stated reason for visiting is supported. This person claims to be visiting temporarily, but has sent text saying he is moving to be with this woman and never wants to leave her: this is enough for entry to be denied. This is not an uncommon experience.
enriquto 7y ago
It is unacceptable that border police do search the messages in my phone. Never going to this country.
- WorkingClassSWE 7y ago
  Canadian border patrol have done it too
Tsubasachan 7y ago
Should have used WeChat. On a Huawei phone.
- akmarinov 7y ago
  They can detain you indefinitely until you give up your password, so it doesn’t matter. There are no laws at the border, even the constitution doesn’t apply for US citizens there.
  - cannonedhamster 7y ago
    To be completely accurate the Constitution doesn't apply anywhere within 100 miles of a U.S. border, which includes airports. This covers something like 60% of the population of the United States. https://www.thenation.com/article/66-percent-americans-now-live-constitution-free-zone/ https://www.thenation.com/article/66-percent-americans-now-l... https://www.aclu.org/other/constitution-100-mile-border-zone https://www.aclu.org/other/constitution-100-mile-border-zone
  - angry_octet 7y ago
    Just a nitpick, but the Constitution still applies (and worldwide between US GOvt and US Persons), but the courts have decided its rules against unreasonable search and seizure don't apply for customs and immigration purposes with certain distances of a port of entry. Plenty of laws apply. They thing to remember is that you can't give up something you don't have. Use a blank dumb phone when crossing, restore afterwards.
    - DanBC 7y ago
      The entry requirements aren't just "show me the phone you have", they include "give me your social media details". Turning up with a burnder phone is a guarantee that you're going to spend hours in an immigration office.
      - angry_octet 7y ago
        I've not heard of demands for fb/twitter/email passwords. More of a concern for non-citizens -- don't post anything publicly I'm afraid.
Nextgrid 7y ago
Just wondering as to why people even bother with the US at all? What does the US give you that UK doesn’t, besides a fucked up government (even more so than the UK - see who’s in charge of the FCC or the tax filing situation), crazy & unreasonable immigration policies, etc? This won’t change as long as people accept it. But if tomorrow tourism & business travel slows down to a crawl because of this you can bet you’ll see changes the next day.
- avocado4 7y ago
  Unmatched opportunities for science, entrepreneurship, education, and technology. Population that's more welcoming to immigrants than any other place in the world by far. Outdoors. Cleaner air and water. Cheap prices. Diversity. Optimistic, friendly, and humble people.
  - silverdemon 7y ago
    This article suggests that its not "more welcoming to immigrants than any other place in the world by far" if a single private IM can get a guy banned for life. Still a great place to visit, but I'll take a burner phone next time. Maybe a Huawei device :)
    - atemerev 7y ago
      They are not wrong. I am Russian living in Europe, occasionally visiting the US. Here in Switzerland, and to a lesser extent in the rest of the western Europe, I will always feel like an immigrant. It is cultural, there is always a divide of those who lived here before and those two came after. Perhaps only my children or their children will be able to fully integrate here. In the US it is different. There are a lot of hurdles to overcome to get there, including very insensitive TSA employees who have arbitrary powers over you, but when I come out of the airport building — I am an American. A Russian American, yes, but still there are nearly no differences in the attitude compared to everybody else. People are friendly and helpful, no matter if I speak with some strange accent or don’t look like a local. This is amazing, it is something that Americans take for granted, but it is a very big deal.
rdiddly 7y ago
It's pretty stupid. Moving can mean taking action. Not that it's any of their business. On the other hand, I can see why they would think that, but isn't it like, pretty easy to tell if this guy ends up overstaying his visa or whatnot? Then I get distracted by the embarrassment I feel reading his meticulous reassurances to her banal insecurities. Then I'm back to feeling bad for the guy, with someone like me reading his texts.
ralph84 7y ago
This is one side of the story. There's likely more than just this text message that raised suspicion. But the law is quite clear that anyone applying for admission to the US is presumed to be an intending immigrant and the burden is on them to prove they will leave before their duration of status expires. Literally millions of people per year are denied visitor visas because they can't meet that burden of proof. Not sure why this is particularly newsworthy.
- CloudNetworking 7y ago
  He wasn't denied a visitor visa, he's been banned for life and that can't be overturned. Quite different. He also has a girlfriend in the US, so that's over for him. That's life changing. BTW, he doesn't exactly need a visa, he was on an ESTA.
  - ralph84 7y ago
    ESTA doesn't waive the requirement to prove non-immigrant intent when applying for admission. If he really was banned for life there's more to the story than his inability to prove non-immigrant intent (e.g. fraud, criminal history, etc.). Even people present in the US illegally for extended periods of time are not banned for life.
    - username90 7y ago
      Lying about anything at all to an immigration official is enough to grant you a lifetime ban to the US. I guess they took his message as lying about intent of visit in his application which they could label as "fraud". Edit: Added source. All that is needed is that they believe you lied to a U.S. government official and they can ban you for life. It can basically be considered fraud if this is true: > When making the false representation, the person intended to deceive a U.S. government official authorized to act upon the request (generally an immigration or consular officer). And this is the consequence: > The person will be barred from admission for the rest of his or her life unless the person qualifies for and is granted a waiver. https://www.uscis.gov/policy-manual/volume-8-part-j-chapter-2 https://www.uscis.gov/policy-manual/volume-8-part-j-chapter-...
teh_infallible 7y ago
Something similar, though much less extreme happened to me. My Australian girlfriend got a year long visa to stay with me in the US. The immigration officer detained her for 3 hours, and eventually told her she could only stay for six months. (This was a long time ago, late 99s, so I can’t remember the justification or how he had the authority to alter a visa she had already been granted. He may have been lying.) He himself wasn’t born in the US, a detail which really pissed me off at the time. How can someone whose job is to check your visa have any power to alter it?
- raverbashing 7y ago
  Welcome to the bureaucracies of immigration, usually duration of the visa != duration of the allowed stay You can of course appeal (with various degrees of success and cost)
- gcb0 7y ago
  You very wrong on the assumptions. The person with the rubber stamp issues you the I-94 in the USA. That is the ultimate say on how long you are allowed to stay. The visa is only one of the many things they consider.
- golergka 7y ago
  > He himself wasn’t born in the US, a detail which really pissed me off at the time. One thing that I constantly notice americans born in US don't understand about immigrants is that legal immigrants are one of the most anti-illegal immigration groups in the country. At least a lot of knowledge workers that got in through H1B or similar mechanisms are. It makes perfect sense. I know a LOT of people who immigrated to US legally, and they see illegals as people who're trying to cheat at exactly the same rules that they have had to obey and spend a lot of resources and effort to do so.
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TorKlingberg 7y ago
The border control system is full of these gotchas and opportunities for arbitrary harsh punishments. Just off the top of my head, and a mix of US and UK: * Be careful saying you are travelling for "business" or "work". The two words mean about the same in everyday use, but at a border check one is perfectly fine and one is a giant no-no. * You apply for a 30-day visa and are granted a 90-day visa. If you decide to extend your trip to 90 days you can be banned for misrepresentation. * The whole thing with "intention to immigrate" that is basically policing your internal mental state. It's perfectly fine to travel to America on a non-immigrant visa, decide you like it there and apply for a change of status or a new immigrant visa. Someone who planned to do that from the beginning is violating their visa, but of course it's impossible to prove unless they slip up. * There are many situations where you are allowed to stay in a country, but if you go on any trip to an other country you will not be let back in. For example if you are waiting for an extension application. Not fun if a parent is suddenly sick in hospital and you want to see them before they die.
chrischen 7y ago
I'm almost 100% certain at some point someone said that this would only ever be used to stop Bin Laden style terrorists, and now people are browsing through intimate text conversations to ban people on trivial technicalities from allied countries. The problem is not that this person received a harsh punishment, but that we will continue sliding down this slippery slope. Next thing you know, this won't be limited to our borders. We'll have minority style report pre-crime punishments. This guy was essentially punished before he even committed his crime (overstaying in the US).
- gambiting 7y ago
  Not to undermine your point, but the entire visa-granting process is based on a pre-crime action. I'm unlucky to be from a country that still requires visas to the US(Poland - despite the fact that our government is literally crawling up the ass of the American government and participating in every single conflict America engages in for no reason other than to say we are great friends), and yeah, basically to be allowed to visit the US you have to visit the embassy and allow your whole life to be inspected - if there is any chance that you might stay - and it might be as minor as having a cousin already living in the US and being in vaguely the same industry you are in, which of course is an indication you will want to stay too /s - then you will be denied and told to try again in 10 years. It's absolutely brutal and yes, it's based entirely on officials guessing whether someone is likely to break the law or not - not whether the law was actually broken.
  - neverminder 7y ago
    It is interesting that Poland looks to be the only EU country that is not on the list of US Visa Waiver program - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visa_Waiver_Program#/media/File:Visa_policy_of_the_USA.png https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visa_Waiver_Program#/media/Fil...
    - gambiting 7y ago
      It's 100% because in the 90s after the fall of communism a lot of people travelled to US on tourist visas and stayed permanently(illegally). It's still being used as an argument by US to exclude us from the US Visa Waiver program, even though nowadays in 2019 you'd be hard pressed to find any Pole interested in emigrating to the US for unskilled work. The risks are huge, the pay is not great, and you can hop on a 4-hour bus to Germany and work there visa-free for much better money, while having full access to healthcare, worker protections and essentially 90% same rights as a native citizen. Why would you risk going to US and overstaying a visa to what, pick strawberries? That made a lot of sense 25 years ago, when even the most basic of basic jobs would pay 50x better than any job in Poland, but that time is long gone now. Not only our salaries are better, but the entire EU market is open to us without limitations. It feels like US still lives in some kind of bubble where they believe that America is a dream land and the second Poles get access to the Visa Waiver programme they will come in droves and stay - I think they are hugely mistaken on that point.
kristianp 7y ago
Reminds me of this news story about a 70-year old children's author detained at a US airport [1]. I'm led to believe that US customs/immigration is the rudest in the developed world. Nowhere else talks to visitors to their country in this fashion. [1]: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-02-25/mem-fox-detained-at-los-angeles-airport-by-us-officials/8303366 https://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-02-25/mem-fox-detained-at-l...
goodcanadian 7y ago
The article is somewhat misleading. The image of the texts provided by the man himself show an intention to "never be away from you again" in addition to "moving to be with you." We only have the man's word on what happened; we have none of the evidence that the border officials used. Did he have a return ticket? Did he have a home or a job to go back to? A lifetime ban seems a bit extreme, but I am completely unsurprised that he wasn't admitted.
mcv 7y ago
Even if he did eventually want to live permanently in the US, why would that be a reason to ban him? Does the US only want people who hate the place? If so, they're doing a good job.
vinni2 7y ago
Why was he detained and his messages checked in the first place? The immigration officer must have had some suspicion even without the text messages.
mproud 7y ago
wut

79 points by r_singh 7y ago

r_singh 7y ago

Here's the text that caused this: https://imgur.com/O2SbNL8 https://imgur.com/O2SbNL8

gcb0 7y ago
a barrage of clingy text messages after a break up. Looks like border patrol was really trying to save the american person in this one case. /rimshot
- golergka 7y ago
  I think that this is very unkind way to judge a person.
- goodcanadian 7y ago
  Funny you say that. It would seem to be standard to call the girlfriend to check his story. If she said she didn't want to see him, that would cast a great deal of doubt on his stated reason for coming.
  - mcv 7y ago
    It certainly could be interpreted in a somewhat stalkery way. We have no idea what the girlfriend thinks about this. Calling her could have cleared up a lot. Of course it's also possible they did call her and kicked him out exactly because of something she said. We only have his part of the story. It could be a complete misrepresentation. He also seems rather eager to share lots of private photos of them together. Could be a red flag.

Topgamer7 7y ago

Power tripping border officials.

yholio 7y ago

This has to be the result of some incentive structure that rewards border personnel whenever any scrap of evidence for illegal intention is found. No policeman I ever met was ever so thorough with their job. It's deliberate emigration policy at work.

oxfordmale 7y ago

Basically you need a burner phone when you travel into the USA these days. Make sure you use it for a month before you travel and don't connect it to any of your social media or GMail accounts. I think Huawai phones are going cheap at the moment :-)

severine 7y ago

Can you imagine if the same attention and assumptions were payed to rich people's private money moves and communications?

actionowl 7y ago

Does the US _really_ have a problem with UK citizens overstaying their visa? I highly doubt it, this is insane.

Sharlin 7y ago
Not likely, but US border officials can pretty much exercise arbitrary power in deciding who gets in, and they can’t get in trouble for denying entry to a non-citizen Joe B. Nobody.
dev_north_east 7y ago
Not British, but two Irish acquaintances of mine were rounded up and deported from the US in the early 2010s. I don't see a problem, they broke the law in illegally moving there. Such practices were common among Irish up until the 2000s. Doesn't happen so much anymore, but then again it is near impossible to legally emigrate there if you're from Ireland.
rutthenut 7y ago
Yes, they do have issues with this. Whether UK or any other nationality. Funnily, I have a colleague who overstayed his entry visa by exiting a day late and frequently gets stopped and questioned when he goes back, which he does often as he had since married an American and probably entitled to US and UK passports by now!
- cheerlessbog 7y ago
  Getting a green card would presumably reduce his border hassles. On the flip side it would require him to file US taxes as long as he retains it no matter where he lives. In my case even with that I got hassled every time - multi hour delays on every arrival because of something screwed up in their records of me. Eventually I went so far as to get citizenship because of the hassle. That requires me to file US taxes for the rest of my life even if I choose to permanently reside outside the US.
raverbashing 7y ago
A problem as in "people of that nationality causing problems" probably not as much. A problem as in "it is against our current immigration rules" technically it is correct. Numerically it's probably around < 1% possibly around 0.1%

jopsen 7y ago

Because most illegal immigrants are British, lol :) Being an illegal immigrant in the US is extremely unattractive -- decent jobs require paperwork.

baybal2 7y ago
You know, you will be surprised that the charts of biggest illegal immigrant nationalities worldwide is topped by Swiss citizens. Developed countries' citizens consistently outmatch people from undeveloped countries when in comes to immigration crimes almost everywhere
- polotics 7y ago
  Wow really? Interesting! Citation needed please!
- raverbashing 7y ago
  > Developed countries' citizens consistently outmatch people from undeveloped countries when in comes to immigration crimes almost everywhere [Citation needed] Just an example, it is assumed the US has around 11Mi undocumented migrants (rough number). Switzerland does not even have that many people.
  - baybal2 7y ago
    Almost always, but not everywhere. For US, yes, other American nationals make ~50% of their illegal immigrants, and that's a phenomenon on its own. But take a bigger sample. Swiss were biggest offenders in Hongkong, Macau, and dozen other tropical vacation destinations. Few years ago, Singapore's biggest offenders after Malaysians happened to be US citizens. India, complicated story... but if you not count Bangladesh citizens, and stateless, I think almost all of OECD members will get to the chart Vietnam, heard that they struggle with US citizens in recent years as well, though mostly Vietnamese Americans African countries, a known story - tourist overstayers
RickJWagner 7y ago
But still there are 10s of thousands pouring in every month. The promise of a better life (in the future) for you and your family is a strong one.

threezero 7y ago

Aside from the fact that this article originally came from a sensationalist tabloid (the Sun), there is only the word of the one person, without even a quote from his girlfriend. The whole thing sounds fishy.

DanBC 7y ago
It doesn't sound fishy at all. Border patrol routinely check through people's documentation to see if their stated reason for visiting is supported. This person claims to be visiting temporarily, but has sent text saying he is moving to be with this woman and never wants to leave her: this is enough for entry to be denied. This is not an uncommon experience.

enriquto 7y ago

It is unacceptable that border police do search the messages in my phone. Never going to this country.

WorkingClassSWE 7y ago
Canadian border patrol have done it too

Tsubasachan 7y ago

Should have used WeChat. On a Huawei phone.

akmarinov 7y ago
They can detain you indefinitely until you give up your password, so it doesn’t matter. There are no laws at the border, even the constitution doesn’t apply for US citizens there.
- cannonedhamster 7y ago
  To be completely accurate the Constitution doesn't apply anywhere within 100 miles of a U.S. border, which includes airports. This covers something like 60% of the population of the United States. https://www.thenation.com/article/66-percent-americans-now-live-constitution-free-zone/ https://www.thenation.com/article/66-percent-americans-now-l... https://www.aclu.org/other/constitution-100-mile-border-zone https://www.aclu.org/other/constitution-100-mile-border-zone
- angry_octet 7y ago
  Just a nitpick, but the Constitution still applies (and worldwide between US GOvt and US Persons), but the courts have decided its rules against unreasonable search and seizure don't apply for customs and immigration purposes with certain distances of a port of entry. Plenty of laws apply. They thing to remember is that you can't give up something you don't have. Use a blank dumb phone when crossing, restore afterwards.
  - DanBC 7y ago
    The entry requirements aren't just "show me the phone you have", they include "give me your social media details". Turning up with a burnder phone is a guarantee that you're going to spend hours in an immigration office.
    - angry_octet 7y ago
      I've not heard of demands for fb/twitter/email passwords. More of a concern for non-citizens -- don't post anything publicly I'm afraid.

Nextgrid 7y ago

Just wondering as to why people even bother with the US at all? What does the US give you that UK doesn’t, besides a fucked up government (even more so than the UK - see who’s in charge of the FCC or the tax filing situation), crazy & unreasonable immigration policies, etc? This won’t change as long as people accept it. But if tomorrow tourism & business travel slows down to a crawl because of this you can bet you’ll see changes the next day.

avocado4 7y ago
Unmatched opportunities for science, entrepreneurship, education, and technology. Population that's more welcoming to immigrants than any other place in the world by far. Outdoors. Cleaner air and water. Cheap prices. Diversity. Optimistic, friendly, and humble people.
- silverdemon 7y ago
  This article suggests that its not "more welcoming to immigrants than any other place in the world by far" if a single private IM can get a guy banned for life. Still a great place to visit, but I'll take a burner phone next time. Maybe a Huawei device :)
  - atemerev 7y ago
    They are not wrong. I am Russian living in Europe, occasionally visiting the US. Here in Switzerland, and to a lesser extent in the rest of the western Europe, I will always feel like an immigrant. It is cultural, there is always a divide of those who lived here before and those two came after. Perhaps only my children or their children will be able to fully integrate here. In the US it is different. There are a lot of hurdles to overcome to get there, including very insensitive TSA employees who have arbitrary powers over you, but when I come out of the airport building — I am an American. A Russian American, yes, but still there are nearly no differences in the attitude compared to everybody else. People are friendly and helpful, no matter if I speak with some strange accent or don’t look like a local. This is amazing, it is something that Americans take for granted, but it is a very big deal.

rdiddly 7y ago

It's pretty stupid. Moving can mean taking action. Not that it's any of their business. On the other hand, I can see why they would think that, but isn't it like, pretty easy to tell if this guy ends up overstaying his visa or whatnot? Then I get distracted by the embarrassment I feel reading his meticulous reassurances to her banal insecurities. Then I'm back to feeling bad for the guy, with someone like me reading his texts.

ralph84 7y ago

This is one side of the story. There's likely more than just this text message that raised suspicion. But the law is quite clear that anyone applying for admission to the US is presumed to be an intending immigrant and the burden is on them to prove they will leave before their duration of status expires. Literally millions of people per year are denied visitor visas because they can't meet that burden of proof. Not sure why this is particularly newsworthy.

CloudNetworking 7y ago
He wasn't denied a visitor visa, he's been banned for life and that can't be overturned. Quite different. He also has a girlfriend in the US, so that's over for him. That's life changing. BTW, he doesn't exactly need a visa, he was on an ESTA.
- ralph84 7y ago
  ESTA doesn't waive the requirement to prove non-immigrant intent when applying for admission. If he really was banned for life there's more to the story than his inability to prove non-immigrant intent (e.g. fraud, criminal history, etc.). Even people present in the US illegally for extended periods of time are not banned for life.
  - username90 7y ago
    Lying about anything at all to an immigration official is enough to grant you a lifetime ban to the US. I guess they took his message as lying about intent of visit in his application which they could label as "fraud". Edit: Added source. All that is needed is that they believe you lied to a U.S. government official and they can ban you for life. It can basically be considered fraud if this is true: > When making the false representation, the person intended to deceive a U.S. government official authorized to act upon the request (generally an immigration or consular officer). And this is the consequence: > The person will be barred from admission for the rest of his or her life unless the person qualifies for and is granted a waiver. https://www.uscis.gov/policy-manual/volume-8-part-j-chapter-2 https://www.uscis.gov/policy-manual/volume-8-part-j-chapter-...

teh_infallible 7y ago

Something similar, though much less extreme happened to me. My Australian girlfriend got a year long visa to stay with me in the US. The immigration officer detained her for 3 hours, and eventually told her she could only stay for six months. (This was a long time ago, late 99s, so I can’t remember the justification or how he had the authority to alter a visa she had already been granted. He may have been lying.) He himself wasn’t born in the US, a detail which really pissed me off at the time. How can someone whose job is to check your visa have any power to alter it?

raverbashing 7y ago
Welcome to the bureaucracies of immigration, usually duration of the visa != duration of the allowed stay You can of course appeal (with various degrees of success and cost)
gcb0 7y ago
You very wrong on the assumptions. The person with the rubber stamp issues you the I-94 in the USA. That is the ultimate say on how long you are allowed to stay. The visa is only one of the many things they consider.
golergka 7y ago
> He himself wasn’t born in the US, a detail which really pissed me off at the time. One thing that I constantly notice americans born in US don't understand about immigrants is that legal immigrants are one of the most anti-illegal immigration groups in the country. At least a lot of knowledge workers that got in through H1B or similar mechanisms are. It makes perfect sense. I know a LOT of people who immigrated to US legally, and they see illegals as people who're trying to cheat at exactly the same rules that they have had to obey and spend a lot of resources and effort to do so.

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TorKlingberg 7y ago

The border control system is full of these gotchas and opportunities for arbitrary harsh punishments. Just off the top of my head, and a mix of US and UK: * Be careful saying you are travelling for "business" or "work". The two words mean about the same in everyday use, but at a border check one is perfectly fine and one is a giant no-no. * You apply for a 30-day visa and are granted a 90-day visa. If you decide to extend your trip to 90 days you can be banned for misrepresentation. * The whole thing with "intention to immigrate" that is basically policing your internal mental state. It's perfectly fine to travel to America on a non-immigrant visa, decide you like it there and apply for a change of status or a new immigrant visa. Someone who planned to do that from the beginning is violating their visa, but of course it's impossible to prove unless they slip up. * There are many situations where you are allowed to stay in a country, but if you go on any trip to an other country you will not be let back in. For example if you are waiting for an extension application. Not fun if a parent is suddenly sick in hospital and you want to see them before they die.

chrischen 7y ago

I'm almost 100% certain at some point someone said that this would only ever be used to stop Bin Laden style terrorists, and now people are browsing through intimate text conversations to ban people on trivial technicalities from allied countries. The problem is not that this person received a harsh punishment, but that we will continue sliding down this slippery slope. Next thing you know, this won't be limited to our borders. We'll have minority style report pre-crime punishments. This guy was essentially punished before he even committed his crime (overstaying in the US).

gambiting 7y ago
Not to undermine your point, but the entire visa-granting process is based on a pre-crime action. I'm unlucky to be from a country that still requires visas to the US(Poland - despite the fact that our government is literally crawling up the ass of the American government and participating in every single conflict America engages in for no reason other than to say we are great friends), and yeah, basically to be allowed to visit the US you have to visit the embassy and allow your whole life to be inspected - if there is any chance that you might stay - and it might be as minor as having a cousin already living in the US and being in vaguely the same industry you are in, which of course is an indication you will want to stay too /s - then you will be denied and told to try again in 10 years. It's absolutely brutal and yes, it's based entirely on officials guessing whether someone is likely to break the law or not - not whether the law was actually broken.
- neverminder 7y ago
  It is interesting that Poland looks to be the only EU country that is not on the list of US Visa Waiver program - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visa_Waiver_Program#/media/File:Visa_policy_of_the_USA.png https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visa_Waiver_Program#/media/Fil...
  - gambiting 7y ago
    It's 100% because in the 90s after the fall of communism a lot of people travelled to US on tourist visas and stayed permanently(illegally). It's still being used as an argument by US to exclude us from the US Visa Waiver program, even though nowadays in 2019 you'd be hard pressed to find any Pole interested in emigrating to the US for unskilled work. The risks are huge, the pay is not great, and you can hop on a 4-hour bus to Germany and work there visa-free for much better money, while having full access to healthcare, worker protections and essentially 90% same rights as a native citizen. Why would you risk going to US and overstaying a visa to what, pick strawberries? That made a lot of sense 25 years ago, when even the most basic of basic jobs would pay 50x better than any job in Poland, but that time is long gone now. Not only our salaries are better, but the entire EU market is open to us without limitations. It feels like US still lives in some kind of bubble where they believe that America is a dream land and the second Poles get access to the Visa Waiver programme they will come in droves and stay - I think they are hugely mistaken on that point.

kristianp 7y ago

Reminds me of this news story about a 70-year old children's author detained at a US airport [1]. I'm led to believe that US customs/immigration is the rudest in the developed world. Nowhere else talks to visitors to their country in this fashion. [1]: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-02-25/mem-fox-detained-at-los-angeles-airport-by-us-officials/8303366 https://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-02-25/mem-fox-detained-at-l...

goodcanadian 7y ago

The article is somewhat misleading. The image of the texts provided by the man himself show an intention to "never be away from you again" in addition to "moving to be with you." We only have the man's word on what happened; we have none of the evidence that the border officials used. Did he have a return ticket? Did he have a home or a job to go back to? A lifetime ban seems a bit extreme, but I am completely unsurprised that he wasn't admitted.

mcv 7y ago

Even if he did eventually want to live permanently in the US, why would that be a reason to ban him? Does the US only want people who hate the place? If so, they're doing a good job.

vinni2 7y ago

Why was he detained and his messages checked in the first place? The immigration officer must have had some suspicion even without the text messages.

mproud 7y ago

wut