5 ms·

Just walk away from the Mac. Windows is perfectly viable for doing development, so is Linux. You can easily get a laptop that is cheaper and more reliable than

by kabdib 7y ago

Just walk away from the Mac. Windows is perfectly viable for doing development, so is Linux. You can easily get a laptop that is cheaper and more reliable than a Macbook. About the only thing you'll be missing is a cool Apple sticker, but you can get those on eBay. Your wallet will thank you, and so will your fingers. A Macbook was a reasonable, even logical choice in 2012. Now, not so much. Apple can have me back if they want -- hey, take my money! -- but they have to stop fucking up. I don't know why the Apple board isn't simply pounding the hell out of the management that's been allowing the poor quality and user-hostile decisions of the past several years. [Hmmm, I just looked at their board members. That would explain a lot...]

jordache 7y ago
the touchpad performance on the mac is second to none. Can modern windows or linux come even close?
- xenospn 7y ago
  No.
- nbevans 7y ago
  I tested them all (well, the main contenders) and even the flagship Surface Book trackpad is not comparable to a current MacBook. The Surface Book trackpad is like almost identical to a MacBook from around 2012-2013 era. Admittedly the current MacBook trackpad is too big - but is otherwise functionally perfect in terms of its multi-touch and haptic feedback.
- copperx 7y ago
  Absolutely not. The good thing is that any extended development session calls for an external monitor, keyboard, and mouse/trackpad. Also, you can use the external Apple trackpad they sell with any OS.
  - saagarjha 7y ago
    > The good thing is that any extended development session calls for an external monitor, keyboard, and mouse/trackpad. For you. I do all my development on a 13" laptop.
    - copperx 7y ago
      Have you done any iOS development in Xcode on that 13" MPB of yours? Unless you have excellent eyesight and use a screen resolution that gives you the max real estate, it's incredibly frustrating to use the code assistant editor, or to run the simulator.
      - saagarjha 7y ago
        I must have spent a couple thousand hours of iOS development on it. I use the default 1280x800@2x resolution with Xcode filling the screen (but not in fullscreen).
  - flohofwoe 7y ago
    I do all my work on a vanilla 13" MBP, it works just fine. I also use 13" Linux and Windows laptops almost daily, and the "touchpad experience" there is indeed painful. > Also, you can use the external Apple trackpad they sell with any OS. I think the problem isn't the hardware, but the software (or more likely a combination of both). The MBP touchpad under Windows with Bootcamp is also quite terrible.
- crispinb 7y ago
  I guess touchpads must be far more important to some of you than they are to me. I'll only touch mine on the rare occasion I'm lazily reading on my laptop rather than a tablet. I'd hardly miss if it stopped working.
- whywhywhywhy 7y ago
  > Can modern windows or linux come even close? The Surface line trackpads are extremely close and their keyboards actually surpass current Apple boards.
shaklee3 7y ago
With WSL, you might as well run Windows and do all Linux development there as well.
- turbinerneiter 7y ago
  To an extent. Speed is an issue (might be fixed with WSL2). The other issue is that some parts are missing, i.e. systemd. It gets you pretty far, but not all the way. I guess for most people in most cases its fine.
crispinb 7y ago
> Windows is perfectly viable for doing development, so is Linux. Viable, yes. I've spent the last year (since replacing a 2013 MB Pro) with a Dell 15 XPS, roughly 50/50 Windows & Linux (Ubuntu then Fedora). Both work. They each run everything I need a laptop for. Honestly neither is quite as good a desktop for me as macOS, but they are near enough that even if I liked the current generation of MacBooks (which I don't), I wouldn't consider it worth paying the premium. There isn't a single solution I'm truly happy with. Windows 10 is yucky but for me fairly practical (meaning mainly it doesn't waste my time). Linux is more appealing and almost worth it for the speedy file access, but is too time-consuming for me to to commit to. MacOS is my favourite all-round OS, but (Hackintoshes aside) only runs on hardware I don't want (and certainly not at the price). I guess the only thing I haven't tried is ChromeOS. Maybe next time. 2019 desktop OS's are a sorry scene.
- AsyncAwait 7y ago
  > Linux is more appealing and almost worth it for the speedy file access, but is too time-consuming for me to to commit to. I hear a variation of this semi-often and I never quite get what that's supposed to mean. Maybe being a full-time Linux user for a decade has made me used to whatever people are complaining about, but I don't think so, people are complaining about having to fix broken HW/SW occasionally, however as someone who: - Picks Linux-supported hardware specifically, as opposed to a random, generic PC, (something you wouldn't do with macOS either, btw). - Runs a rolling release distro, so if anything should experience more breakage than the regular Ubuntu LTS/Fedora user. I can honestly say that my workflow is basically: -> Turn the laptop on, (or wake from sleep, yes that works well on solid HW) -> Get my work done -> Update the system every couple of days, (rolling release updates) -> Repeat Now does occasionally some package update their config that I'll have to merge or something like that? Sure, maybe once or twice a year. When I do have to use macOS for builds, I experience glitches, (like the login bar loading and never finishing), various annoying updates, (& update prompts), apps, (like Duet Display), randomly breaking when you need them, occasional kernel panics, (but more frequent than I ever had on Linux, in fact I had one on Linux maybe once), choppy performance even on a top spec 2016 MBP due to poor thermals, video rendering issues when switchable graphics is enabled etc. All in all, my macOS experience is actually somewhat worse than on Linux. It's nothing I can't deal with, but it's nowhere near as trouble free as people make it seem. I honestly think it comes down to things like macOS being more animated by default, having 3D shadows under every window, the dock enlarging the icons as you scroll pass them, your coworkers having a Mac as a status symbol etc. rather than some big technical hurdle.
whywhywhywhy 7y ago
I moved away from the Mac for 3D work a few years back just because CUDA based rendering engines were such a game changer. I was totally expecting the experience to just be gritting my teeth and dealing with Windows for the power, but actually I've been pleasantly surprised that it's honestly improved a lot and MS is taking the approach of tackling one or two pain points a year consistently, like modernizing the Terminal this year and I'm sure one day they'll get to Explorer which is the last thing that bugs me. I also bought a Surface Go recently and this has convinced me I could move away from Mac completely (To a Surface Pro) if need be, the industrial design is excellent, the keyboard is an absolute joy to type on and it's so versatile, like a "Pro" machine should be.

by kabdib 7y ago

jordache 7y ago

the touchpad performance on the mac is second to none. Can modern windows or linux come even close?

xenospn 7y ago
No.
nbevans 7y ago
I tested them all (well, the main contenders) and even the flagship Surface Book trackpad is not comparable to a current MacBook. The Surface Book trackpad is like almost identical to a MacBook from around 2012-2013 era. Admittedly the current MacBook trackpad is too big - but is otherwise functionally perfect in terms of its multi-touch and haptic feedback.
copperx 7y ago
Absolutely not. The good thing is that any extended development session calls for an external monitor, keyboard, and mouse/trackpad. Also, you can use the external Apple trackpad they sell with any OS.
- saagarjha 7y ago
  > The good thing is that any extended development session calls for an external monitor, keyboard, and mouse/trackpad. For you. I do all my development on a 13" laptop.
  - copperx 7y ago
    Have you done any iOS development in Xcode on that 13" MPB of yours? Unless you have excellent eyesight and use a screen resolution that gives you the max real estate, it's incredibly frustrating to use the code assistant editor, or to run the simulator.
    - saagarjha 7y ago
      I must have spent a couple thousand hours of iOS development on it. I use the default 1280x800@2x resolution with Xcode filling the screen (but not in fullscreen).
- flohofwoe 7y ago
  I do all my work on a vanilla 13" MBP, it works just fine. I also use 13" Linux and Windows laptops almost daily, and the "touchpad experience" there is indeed painful. > Also, you can use the external Apple trackpad they sell with any OS. I think the problem isn't the hardware, but the software (or more likely a combination of both). The MBP touchpad under Windows with Bootcamp is also quite terrible.
crispinb 7y ago
I guess touchpads must be far more important to some of you than they are to me. I'll only touch mine on the rare occasion I'm lazily reading on my laptop rather than a tablet. I'd hardly miss if it stopped working.
whywhywhywhy 7y ago
> Can modern windows or linux come even close? The Surface line trackpads are extremely close and their keyboards actually surpass current Apple boards.

shaklee3 7y ago

With WSL, you might as well run Windows and do all Linux development there as well.

turbinerneiter 7y ago
To an extent. Speed is an issue (might be fixed with WSL2). The other issue is that some parts are missing, i.e. systemd. It gets you pretty far, but not all the way. I guess for most people in most cases its fine.

crispinb 7y ago

> Windows is perfectly viable for doing development, so is Linux. Viable, yes. I've spent the last year (since replacing a 2013 MB Pro) with a Dell 15 XPS, roughly 50/50 Windows & Linux (Ubuntu then Fedora). Both work. They each run everything I need a laptop for. Honestly neither is quite as good a desktop for me as macOS, but they are near enough that even if I liked the current generation of MacBooks (which I don't), I wouldn't consider it worth paying the premium. There isn't a single solution I'm truly happy with. Windows 10 is yucky but for me fairly practical (meaning mainly it doesn't waste my time). Linux is more appealing and almost worth it for the speedy file access, but is too time-consuming for me to to commit to. MacOS is my favourite all-round OS, but (Hackintoshes aside) only runs on hardware I don't want (and certainly not at the price). I guess the only thing I haven't tried is ChromeOS. Maybe next time. 2019 desktop OS's are a sorry scene.

AsyncAwait 7y ago
> Linux is more appealing and almost worth it for the speedy file access, but is too time-consuming for me to to commit to. I hear a variation of this semi-often and I never quite get what that's supposed to mean. Maybe being a full-time Linux user for a decade has made me used to whatever people are complaining about, but I don't think so, people are complaining about having to fix broken HW/SW occasionally, however as someone who: - Picks Linux-supported hardware specifically, as opposed to a random, generic PC, (something you wouldn't do with macOS either, btw). - Runs a rolling release distro, so if anything should experience more breakage than the regular Ubuntu LTS/Fedora user. I can honestly say that my workflow is basically: -> Turn the laptop on, (or wake from sleep, yes that works well on solid HW) -> Get my work done -> Update the system every couple of days, (rolling release updates) -> Repeat Now does occasionally some package update their config that I'll have to merge or something like that? Sure, maybe once or twice a year. When I do have to use macOS for builds, I experience glitches, (like the login bar loading and never finishing), various annoying updates, (& update prompts), apps, (like Duet Display), randomly breaking when you need them, occasional kernel panics, (but more frequent than I ever had on Linux, in fact I had one on Linux maybe once), choppy performance even on a top spec 2016 MBP due to poor thermals, video rendering issues when switchable graphics is enabled etc. All in all, my macOS experience is actually somewhat worse than on Linux. It's nothing I can't deal with, but it's nowhere near as trouble free as people make it seem. I honestly think it comes down to things like macOS being more animated by default, having 3D shadows under every window, the dock enlarging the icons as you scroll pass them, your coworkers having a Mac as a status symbol etc. rather than some big technical hurdle.

whywhywhywhy 7y ago

I moved away from the Mac for 3D work a few years back just because CUDA based rendering engines were such a game changer. I was totally expecting the experience to just be gritting my teeth and dealing with Windows for the power, but actually I've been pleasantly surprised that it's honestly improved a lot and MS is taking the approach of tackling one or two pain points a year consistently, like modernizing the Terminal this year and I'm sure one day they'll get to Explorer which is the last thing that bugs me. I also bought a Surface Go recently and this has convinced me I could move away from Mac completely (To a Surface Pro) if need be, the industrial design is excellent, the keyboard is an absolute joy to type on and it's so versatile, like a "Pro" machine should be.