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I'm not sure that just any community would be a substitute for church. Most churches are not groups in the sense that you're describing above. Yes, most congreg
by neap24 7y ago
I'm not sure that just any community would be a substitute for church. Most churches are not groups in the sense that you're describing above. Yes, most congregations share a common theology, but the people in the group are often very different personalities, ages, backgrounds. Even super conservative less diverse congregations I know preach unity of the international church, go on mission trips, etc.
The problem with modern substitutes seems to be that they are extremely narrow and probably very temporal (Keto diet fanatics, cross-fit buffs, even gay bars seem to be past their glory days). Much of the unity of the church body comes from a connection to ancestors and a sense that one is, cultural differences aside, a part of the same thing.
- c0vfefe 7y agoPlus there's a shared sense of fundamental worldview values in a congregation that you don't get in an affinity group like chess club.
- marnett 7y agodo not forget an explicit focus on spirituality. other groups might have some modern, diluted equivalent as a second order effect, but religion contains spirituality and spiritual rituals right in the forefront.
- hawaiianbrah 7y agoWhat do you mean that gay bars seem past their glory days?
- amiga-workbench 7y agoDating apps obsoleted them in some ways.
- lazyasciiart 7y ago> Even super conservative less diverse congregations I know preach unity of the international church, go on mission trips, etc. This kind of thing is actually more common in more conservative churches in my experience. More progressive groups don't focus on evangelism/conversion as much.
- slothtrop 7y agoFor one thing, the social role of a Church seems overstated in my experience, though that might depend on denomination. After sitting through the sermon and that business was done, what followed was merely lunch / dinner with extended family. We never mingled much with others. Religious families are big on family and I this day and age, they're smaller than ever. Gone are the days, in my case, of communing for a large family dinner almost every week. I barely even see my parents. All of which to say I think our social needs were met in large part by family, and Church was a convenient vehicle to bring it together. There's no substitute for family. However, between a plethora of possible social obligations given our leisure time, I think loneliness can be abated.
- organsnyder 7y agoI think it depends a lot on the individual congregation. Our previous church was terrible socially: everyone stuck to their own in-groups (which often overlapped with extended family), and there was little mingling outside of Sunday morning. Our current church, however, is incredibly vibrant: we've made many close friends there, and the church community goes out of its way for each other (such as doing extensive landscaping last week for two members fighting cancer). Both of these churches are effectively from the same denomination.
- slothtrop 7y agoSure. I haven't hopped and skipped too many but that's been my experience with Catholic churches everywhere, a family affair. Mind you, French and Italian families can be fucking massive which kind of renders the mingling redundant.
- humanrebar 7y ago> All of which to say I think our social needs were met in large part by family, and Church was a convenient vehicle to bring it together. There's no substitute for family. In my experience churches and families are not independent things. Basically every healthy church spends a significant amount of time encouraging healthy families in both direct and indirect ways. And most healthy churches aren't all that convenient. There are too many people involved for church to be convenient.
- TheTruth1234 7y agoNah, my local social-badminton group did more for me than any church meet did. No disrespect to my do-gooders. Whatever floats your boat.
- nicoburns 7y ago> I'm not sure that just any community would be a substitute for church. Most churches are not groups in the sense that you're describing above. Yes, most congregations share a common theology, but the people in the group are often very different personalities, ages, backgrounds. I agree with this. Church communities also tend to be geographically local, which can be important. As an Atheist, I have no desire to encourage people back to religion, but I do think society needs a replacement for the community created by religious groups.
- losteric 7y agoWhat social roles would that hypothetical secular church need to replace? I see a reinforcement of a group identity that can follow to new churches, often simply requiring attendance... opportunities to practice values through volunteering... the holy leaders' quasi-authoritative councilor/networking facilitator/self-improvement/social policing role... and more... Hut how would we fulfill religion's roles without the leaps of faith and dogma that defines religion?
- nicoburns 7y agoA sense of local community. Knowing your neighbours. A place where everyone is welcome.
- bitexploder 7y agoWhen you weigh this against all the harm organized religion does, I am not sure this argument holds much water. Humans will be fine. We don’t need dodgy 2000 year old books to hold society together.
- astazangasta 7y agoBut we do need something. What is the alternative? Our mutual smugness?
- bitexploder 7y agoHobbies. Communities based on mutual interest. There is a thing called a Unitarian churches, they are much closer to dogma free than almost any other churches and many focus strongly on community with religion as a secondary thing for many members. I have found a stronger community in BJJ than I ever saw at a church in terms of real relationships. Humans just naturally form social groups with the smallest amount of lubricant.
- sametmax 7y agoRemove religion and we'll find something else to create dogmas: political ideals, borders, money... Religion is just an excuse, anything you can extract moral from is ripe from being abused as a justification for the worst human behavior. We used communism and eugenism for the same purpose. We had a book, we had a leader, and we had a genocide.
- nradov 7y agoIn the novel The Affinities, Robert Charles Wilson had a sort of secular religion that grouped similar people together in tight social groups based on a cluster analysis of genetics and personality traits. To be clear, I'm not recommending this in real life and I don't think Wilson would either. But it is a thought provoking concept of an alternative to organized religion.
- hdfbdtbcdg 7y agoSports clubs attract a wide cross section of society. Playing a team sport is a wonderful way to meet people from many different backgrounds.