6 ms·

But a lot of people do come only family name. I'm not sure if it's different in America, but everyone is using Obama, Bush, Häkkinen etc. Heck a lot of people d

But a lot of people do come only family name. I'm not sure if it's different in America, but everyone is using Obama, Bush, Häkkinen etc. Heck a lot of people don't even know their first names here. You can say that it's because they are famous, but I'm just trying to outline there are differences. No one close to them they in real life would refer them by family name. Putin's passports says Vladimir Vladimirovich Putin yet everyone is using either Vladimir Putin or just Putin, but Russians don't. (In formal letters etc). The problem is that there are way too many differences alone in the Western world, you can't satisfy everyone's feelings.

zapzupnz 7y ago
The convention of calling a person by just their last name has no bearing on their name order. Obama is still Barack Obama, not Obama Barack. If Russians don't say Vladimir, that doesn't make his name Putin Vladimir. The only Western nation that has a different naming scheme is Hungary, which uses the Japanese-like family-name-first scheme.
- dragonwriter 7y ago
  > The only Western nation that has a different naming scheme is Hungary There are other countries in the West with different naming schemes than the one common in the Anglosphere, even if they happen to still have the given names first and some combination of family names thereafter; I've several times seen US outlets butcher the names of Mexican officials because they assume that the same name order applies when the order is merely superficially similar. For instance, the headline (and URL) on this CSPAN piece: https://www.c-span.org/video/?451988-5/united-nations-general-assembly-mexican-president-nieto https://www.c-span.org/video/?451988-5/united-nations-genera... There are several acceptable ways to refer to Enrique Peña Nieto as President of Mexico, but “President Nieto” isn't one of them, and Nieto alone isn't the same kind of name as an English last name.
  - zapzupnz 7y ago
    That has nothing to do with name ordering. This discussion is about name order. I didn't think I had to spell that out considering the article is about name ordering. I should've been more specific.
    - dragonwriter 7y ago
      > That has nothing to do with name ordering. It has exactly to do with name ordering, since the source of the issue is that the nearest equivalent of the English last name is actually the penultimate rather than final element of the name in the order at issue.
      - zapzupnz 7y ago
        I disagree that this is about ordering. In no ordinary circumstances does that person's name become Peña Nieto Enrique, in that order. His name uses the Spanish naming system whereby both the mother and father's name are included — like an English double-barrelled name without a hyphen — which is not affected by whether the given or family name(s) come(s) first. Therefore, the issue is not about ordering, it's about name segmentation and culture-specific name boundaries; the issue is where given names end and family names begin, not what order they're in.
pandaman 7y ago
And speaking of Putin's passport: Russian international passports usually have the patronymic spelled only in the Cyrillic name, the international name is just First Last. So most likely Putin's passport says "Vladimir Putin" and "Владимир Владимирович Путин". I think it's the best decision - nothing good is going to come out from forcing patronymics on people who cannot even read Russian and exposing your citizens to all potential fuckups caused by name confusion.

zapzupnz 7y ago

The convention of calling a person by just their last name has no bearing on their name order. Obama is still Barack Obama, not Obama Barack. If Russians don't say Vladimir, that doesn't make his name Putin Vladimir. The only Western nation that has a different naming scheme is Hungary, which uses the Japanese-like family-name-first scheme.

dragonwriter 7y ago
> The only Western nation that has a different naming scheme is Hungary There are other countries in the West with different naming schemes than the one common in the Anglosphere, even if they happen to still have the given names first and some combination of family names thereafter; I've several times seen US outlets butcher the names of Mexican officials because they assume that the same name order applies when the order is merely superficially similar. For instance, the headline (and URL) on this CSPAN piece: https://www.c-span.org/video/?451988-5/united-nations-general-assembly-mexican-president-nieto https://www.c-span.org/video/?451988-5/united-nations-genera... There are several acceptable ways to refer to Enrique Peña Nieto as President of Mexico, but “President Nieto” isn't one of them, and Nieto alone isn't the same kind of name as an English last name.
- zapzupnz 7y ago
  That has nothing to do with name ordering. This discussion is about name order. I didn't think I had to spell that out considering the article is about name ordering. I should've been more specific.
  - dragonwriter 7y ago
    > That has nothing to do with name ordering. It has exactly to do with name ordering, since the source of the issue is that the nearest equivalent of the English last name is actually the penultimate rather than final element of the name in the order at issue.
    - zapzupnz 7y ago
      I disagree that this is about ordering. In no ordinary circumstances does that person's name become Peña Nieto Enrique, in that order. His name uses the Spanish naming system whereby both the mother and father's name are included — like an English double-barrelled name without a hyphen — which is not affected by whether the given or family name(s) come(s) first. Therefore, the issue is not about ordering, it's about name segmentation and culture-specific name boundaries; the issue is where given names end and family names begin, not what order they're in.

pandaman 7y ago

And speaking of Putin's passport: Russian international passports usually have the patronymic spelled only in the Cyrillic name, the international name is just First Last. So most likely Putin's passport says "Vladimir Putin" and "Владимир Владимирович Путин". I think it's the best decision - nothing good is going to come out from forcing patronymics on people who cannot even read Russian and exposing your citizens to all potential fuckups caused by name confusion.