6 ms·

Much better than community is family. Go to church, meet a nice girl or boy, get married and have some babies. That's the actual solution for the loneliness epi

Much better than community is family. Go to church, meet a nice girl or boy, get married and have some babies. That's the actual solution for the loneliness epidemic.

libraryatnight 7y ago
You do realize that you don't need church for any of that right? Any sort of club or organization will work. This beating over the head that church is the answer is rubbish. I know lots of religious people that are very pleasant and kudos to them for having their own faith while respecting others, I know more that are prejudiced and feel morally superior to those around them, or won't let their kids go on the school trip to the natural history museum - so I'd rather see people not getting sucked into the Church machine like it's an answer when there's lots of ways to socialize without the dogma.
- beasteurope 7y ago
  No, you don't need religion to hang out and stuff but having matrimony as a sacrament sure nudges people to build families.
  - velcrovan 7y ago
    > having matrimony as a sacrament sure nudges people to build families. Or, you know, a million years of evolution baking the instinct into our primate brains
    - blotter_paper 7y ago
      I'm an atheist. I want to agree with you so bad, but having kids is different than building families. I think beasteurope is correct about religion encouraging families to stay together rather than breaking up. I'm not saying other social structures can't encourage this behavior, but I don't think relying on evolutionary instincts is going to keep families together as reliably as relying on evolutionary instincts combined with a social custom where potential parents promise commitment in front of the whole community (with the magical threat of eternal torture should they part ways for bonus points). Not the world I want to live in, just the world I think I live in. And again, I can imagine other social customs for building families (like matrilineal lines with strong social expectations of uncles participating in childcare, for example -- there's at least one hunter-gatherer example of this I'm forgetting the name of).
      - tathougies 7y ago
        > like matrilineal lines with strong social expectations of uncles participating in childcare, for example -- there's at least one hunter-gatherer example of this I'm forgetting the name of There is one matrilineal society with a culture that some anthropologists describe in terms you describe -- the Mosou people. However, more recent anthropological data indicates that this too is not the whole truth. While the Mosou are undoubtedly matrilineal, they typically know who the father is and children with involved fathers (rather than just involved uncles) do better. Moreover, Mosou society is not spontaneous. It developed as the result of a lower class being subjugated by a very patrilineal upper class nobility. The lower class was socially engineered to be compliant, while the upper class taxed them. The upper class was eventually disbanded by communist china, and the Mosou are now mistakenly used as an example of a stable matriarchal society. Nevertheless, even this fails to stand to scrutiny as exposure to the patrilineal mainstream Chinese society means most men just leave for greener pastures in mainstream Chinese society. Were it not for gawking tourists to prop up their economy, it's unlikely they'd be around still.
      - Shorel 7y ago
        I think our evolution even made us dependent on extended families. Like in having groups of at least 20 individuals in order to raise children successfully. The smallish nuclear family is a very modern invention. Going to high school (and the natural consequence of parents not educating their own children) is even more recent.
        blotter_paper 7y ago
        Agree completely. Prussian-style education is good at promoting fascism and perhaps at preparing people to fit into a poorly-designed workforce, but not much else. Some combination of homeschooling, tutors, and (around age 12-16) apprenticeship programs would probably be better for the sorts of goals I have regarding society. The nuclear family is useful but insufficient given our biology; atoms alone are less useful than the higher-order molecules that supervene them.
      - zAy0LfpBZLC8mAC 7y ago
        > I think beasteurope is correct about religion encouraging families to stay together rather than breaking up. Which really means: Encouraging families that don't work to stay together, no matter how much it hurts the people involved. Helping people to resolve conflicts so they want to stay together is a completely different thing than just encouraging people to stay together.
    - tathougies 7y ago
      Human male instinct is to have sex with lots of females and leave. Religion / transcendent philosophy and civilization and family are a self reinforcing loop that has resulted in human prosperity. Take one component out, and it all falls apart. That is why people say 'family is the building block of civilization'.
  - andrepd 7y ago
    [citation needed] Seriously though, I'm sure we can attribute our urge to procreate to 4,500,000,000 years of evolution, not to churches.
- rando444 7y ago
  I think you're under the mistaken assumption that all churches preach religion. I suggest you read up on Unitarian Universalist and Sunday Assembly churches, which you may not have heard of, but they exist all over the world, and echo exactly what you're saying.
SketchySeaBeast 7y ago
Well that seems dysfunctional to have kids to try to cure your loneliness.
- beasteurope 7y ago
  Worth it, I'm sorry that you'll never know the joy of having your kids drag you away to play Minecraft with them.
  - SketchySeaBeast 7y ago
    You're making a lot of assumptions there bud - I'm just trying to point out that "have children to cure loneliness" seems as bad of advice as "have children to save the marriage".
    - lukevdp 7y ago
      I agree that having kids to cure loneliness is “doing it for the wrong reason”. But I don’t think it’s controversial that having kids does actually cure loneliness.
      - chii 7y ago
        If the cause of the loneliness is they they aren't socially adept, then how would they find someone to have kids with in the first place?! And if they do find someone, won't the loneliness be cured already without having kids?
        lukevdp 7y ago
        In my experience the world isn’t as black and white as you seem to think.
    - matz1 7y ago
      Why bad? Both can works in some situation for some people.
crispinb 7y ago
> Much better than community is family. This is so contrary to a century of results from social research from multiple disciplines from all over the world it would be hard to know where to start to counter it. Community is fundamental to humanity, the nuclear 'family' a local and occasionally useful innovation.
- sisu2019 7y ago
  > start to counter it Please do try. I don't think what you are saying is true at all and it certainly isn't any thing like a universally accepted scientific truth.
- slothtrop 7y ago
  Provide a source. I don't remember the last time I've ever relied on "community" for social needs.
AnimalMuppet 7y ago
Well, it worked for me. But... I strongly suspect that being lonely in a marriage is worse than being lonely and single.

Much better than community is family. Go to church, meet a nice girl or boy, get married and have some babies. That's the actual solution for the loneliness epidemic.

libraryatnight 7y ago

You do realize that you don't need church for any of that right? Any sort of club or organization will work. This beating over the head that church is the answer is rubbish. I know lots of religious people that are very pleasant and kudos to them for having their own faith while respecting others, I know more that are prejudiced and feel morally superior to those around them, or won't let their kids go on the school trip to the natural history museum - so I'd rather see people not getting sucked into the Church machine like it's an answer when there's lots of ways to socialize without the dogma.

beasteurope 7y ago
No, you don't need religion to hang out and stuff but having matrimony as a sacrament sure nudges people to build families.
- velcrovan 7y ago
  > having matrimony as a sacrament sure nudges people to build families. Or, you know, a million years of evolution baking the instinct into our primate brains
  - blotter_paper 7y ago
    I'm an atheist. I want to agree with you so bad, but having kids is different than building families. I think beasteurope is correct about religion encouraging families to stay together rather than breaking up. I'm not saying other social structures can't encourage this behavior, but I don't think relying on evolutionary instincts is going to keep families together as reliably as relying on evolutionary instincts combined with a social custom where potential parents promise commitment in front of the whole community (with the magical threat of eternal torture should they part ways for bonus points). Not the world I want to live in, just the world I think I live in. And again, I can imagine other social customs for building families (like matrilineal lines with strong social expectations of uncles participating in childcare, for example -- there's at least one hunter-gatherer example of this I'm forgetting the name of).
    - tathougies 7y ago
      > like matrilineal lines with strong social expectations of uncles participating in childcare, for example -- there's at least one hunter-gatherer example of this I'm forgetting the name of There is one matrilineal society with a culture that some anthropologists describe in terms you describe -- the Mosou people. However, more recent anthropological data indicates that this too is not the whole truth. While the Mosou are undoubtedly matrilineal, they typically know who the father is and children with involved fathers (rather than just involved uncles) do better. Moreover, Mosou society is not spontaneous. It developed as the result of a lower class being subjugated by a very patrilineal upper class nobility. The lower class was socially engineered to be compliant, while the upper class taxed them. The upper class was eventually disbanded by communist china, and the Mosou are now mistakenly used as an example of a stable matriarchal society. Nevertheless, even this fails to stand to scrutiny as exposure to the patrilineal mainstream Chinese society means most men just leave for greener pastures in mainstream Chinese society. Were it not for gawking tourists to prop up their economy, it's unlikely they'd be around still.
    - Shorel 7y ago
      I think our evolution even made us dependent on extended families. Like in having groups of at least 20 individuals in order to raise children successfully. The smallish nuclear family is a very modern invention. Going to high school (and the natural consequence of parents not educating their own children) is even more recent.
      - blotter_paper 7y ago
        Agree completely. Prussian-style education is good at promoting fascism and perhaps at preparing people to fit into a poorly-designed workforce, but not much else. Some combination of homeschooling, tutors, and (around age 12-16) apprenticeship programs would probably be better for the sorts of goals I have regarding society. The nuclear family is useful but insufficient given our biology; atoms alone are less useful than the higher-order molecules that supervene them.
    - zAy0LfpBZLC8mAC 7y ago
      > I think beasteurope is correct about religion encouraging families to stay together rather than breaking up. Which really means: Encouraging families that don't work to stay together, no matter how much it hurts the people involved. Helping people to resolve conflicts so they want to stay together is a completely different thing than just encouraging people to stay together.
  - tathougies 7y ago
    Human male instinct is to have sex with lots of females and leave. Religion / transcendent philosophy and civilization and family are a self reinforcing loop that has resulted in human prosperity. Take one component out, and it all falls apart. That is why people say 'family is the building block of civilization'.
- andrepd 7y ago
  [citation needed] Seriously though, I'm sure we can attribute our urge to procreate to 4,500,000,000 years of evolution, not to churches.
rando444 7y ago
I think you're under the mistaken assumption that all churches preach religion. I suggest you read up on Unitarian Universalist and Sunday Assembly churches, which you may not have heard of, but they exist all over the world, and echo exactly what you're saying.

SketchySeaBeast 7y ago

Well that seems dysfunctional to have kids to try to cure your loneliness.

beasteurope 7y ago
Worth it, I'm sorry that you'll never know the joy of having your kids drag you away to play Minecraft with them.
- SketchySeaBeast 7y ago
  You're making a lot of assumptions there bud - I'm just trying to point out that "have children to cure loneliness" seems as bad of advice as "have children to save the marriage".
  - lukevdp 7y ago
    I agree that having kids to cure loneliness is “doing it for the wrong reason”. But I don’t think it’s controversial that having kids does actually cure loneliness.
    - chii 7y ago
      If the cause of the loneliness is they they aren't socially adept, then how would they find someone to have kids with in the first place?! And if they do find someone, won't the loneliness be cured already without having kids?
      - lukevdp 7y ago
        In my experience the world isn’t as black and white as you seem to think.
  - matz1 7y ago
    Why bad? Both can works in some situation for some people.

crispinb 7y ago

> Much better than community is family. This is so contrary to a century of results from social research from multiple disciplines from all over the world it would be hard to know where to start to counter it. Community is fundamental to humanity, the nuclear 'family' a local and occasionally useful innovation.

sisu2019 7y ago
> start to counter it Please do try. I don't think what you are saying is true at all and it certainly isn't any thing like a universally accepted scientific truth.
slothtrop 7y ago
Provide a source. I don't remember the last time I've ever relied on "community" for social needs.

AnimalMuppet 7y ago

Well, it worked for me. But... I strongly suspect that being lonely in a marriage is worse than being lonely and single.