4 ms·

This is fantastic. Living in both the English and Japanese-speaking worlds, it'll be nice not having to go through mental gymnastics to remember how to call som

This is fantastic. Living in both the English and Japanese-speaking worlds, it'll be nice not having to go through mental gymnastics to remember how to call somebody in whichever language. I think consistency is preferable; it's surely not impossible for people to be educated on name order.

FabHK 7y ago
> This is fantastic. Living in both the English and Japanese-speaking worlds [...] I think consistency is preferable If I'm not mistaken, his suggestion would make the Japanese convention less consistent with the English convention (while making it more consistent with the Chinese convention).
- zapzupnz 7y ago
  It would make the English rendering of Japanese names consistent with … well, themselves. 安倍 (Abe) 晋三 (Shinzo) will be Abe Shinzo, not Shinzo Abe. The Japanese don't reverse Western names, so Steve Jobs is never Jobs Steve.
  - FabHK 7y ago
    Ah I see! Yes indeed.
  - frosted-flakes 7y ago
    > The Japanese don't reverse Western names, so Steve Jobs is never Jobs Steve. Do the Japanese write Western names in the latin alphabet ("Steve Jobs"), or do they transform it into their own script based on how it sounds? If it's kept in the latin alphabet, of course they don't reverse it, the same way we wouldn't reverse it if we kept "Shinzo Abe" in Japanese script ("安倍晋三").
    - zapzupnz 7y ago
      I think you're missing the point. Whether in katakana or in romaji (Latin script), the Japanese don't reverse our names, so there's no reason for us to do that to theirs whatever script is used. As I said to someone else, transliteration doesn't come into it. After all, the writing system doesn't matter when speaking a name when the pronunciation is known but the orthography isn't; it still must be said in the right order.
RandallBrown 7y ago
I have a friend who is (I guess) Japanese-American. Someone like his great-great-grandfather was Japanese and the family name has been passed down, but for all intents and purposes, he's a white American. How would his name be written?
- lmm 7y ago
  The same way he orders it - whether in Japan or in America. Japanese people don't flip the order of the names Americans call themselves. We should extend them the same courtesy.
  - zapzupnz 7y ago
    Indeed. It's really quite simple; we should call people as they call themselves, not how we think they should be called. It's the basic respect we expect for ourselves but the West is bizarrely inclined not to give to others. We come up with all sorts of systems, checks, and balances to decide what the order should be rather than just use the order that it is already in.
    - RandallBrown 7y ago
      The difficulty with that is that when writing a news article you can't always ask the person how they would prefer their name written.
      - lmm 7y ago
        Why would you need to? You must've gotten the name from some source, just write it in the same order it is there - transliterating into a different writing system if necessary, but there's just no need to ever mess with the order.

FabHK 7y ago

> This is fantastic. Living in both the English and Japanese-speaking worlds [...] I think consistency is preferable If I'm not mistaken, his suggestion would make the Japanese convention less consistent with the English convention (while making it more consistent with the Chinese convention).

zapzupnz 7y ago
It would make the English rendering of Japanese names consistent with … well, themselves. 安倍 (Abe) 晋三 (Shinzo) will be Abe Shinzo, not Shinzo Abe. The Japanese don't reverse Western names, so Steve Jobs is never Jobs Steve.
- FabHK 7y ago
  Ah I see! Yes indeed.
- frosted-flakes 7y ago
  > The Japanese don't reverse Western names, so Steve Jobs is never Jobs Steve. Do the Japanese write Western names in the latin alphabet ("Steve Jobs"), or do they transform it into their own script based on how it sounds? If it's kept in the latin alphabet, of course they don't reverse it, the same way we wouldn't reverse it if we kept "Shinzo Abe" in Japanese script ("安倍晋三").
  - zapzupnz 7y ago
    I think you're missing the point. Whether in katakana or in romaji (Latin script), the Japanese don't reverse our names, so there's no reason for us to do that to theirs whatever script is used. As I said to someone else, transliteration doesn't come into it. After all, the writing system doesn't matter when speaking a name when the pronunciation is known but the orthography isn't; it still must be said in the right order.

RandallBrown 7y ago

I have a friend who is (I guess) Japanese-American. Someone like his great-great-grandfather was Japanese and the family name has been passed down, but for all intents and purposes, he's a white American. How would his name be written?

lmm 7y ago
The same way he orders it - whether in Japan or in America. Japanese people don't flip the order of the names Americans call themselves. We should extend them the same courtesy.
- zapzupnz 7y ago
  Indeed. It's really quite simple; we should call people as they call themselves, not how we think they should be called. It's the basic respect we expect for ourselves but the West is bizarrely inclined not to give to others. We come up with all sorts of systems, checks, and balances to decide what the order should be rather than just use the order that it is already in.
  - RandallBrown 7y ago
    The difficulty with that is that when writing a news article you can't always ask the person how they would prefer their name written.
    - lmm 7y ago
      Why would you need to? You must've gotten the name from some source, just write it in the same order it is there - transliterating into a different writing system if necessary, but there's just no need to ever mess with the order.