8 ms·

I think there are numerous ways in which Tim Cook's generation has failed the next generation (at least in the US). * Wages are flat, * Housing costs are up (i

by tedivm 7y ago

I think there are numerous ways in which Tim Cook's generation has failed the next generation (at least in the US). * Wages are flat, * Housing costs are up (in large part due to NIMBYism), * College is more expensive (in large part due to Cook's generation cutting subsidies that they got), * Environment is shot- that whole global warming thing isn't going away anytime soon. Generally speaking the baby boomers, as a whole, have focused more on enriching themselves than any other previous generation. This is the first time in generations that, in the US, the newer generation is seen as worse off than the one before it.

tux1968 7y ago
It may be that a lot of the issues do not represent any especially egregious failing of any generation, but rather structural changes. The post-war exponential growth that fed unprecedented wealth generation simply could not continue, it has run its course. So while it is tempting to look back a generation or two and see how they had it much easier in a lot of ways, if you look back just a little bit further, it's easy to feel pretty damn lucky to be living today.
NE2z2T9qi 7y ago
What are you asking for? The world has changed drastically, culture and preferences have changed drastically, and new technological tools make the job and economic landscape entirely different than earlier. That's not Baby Boomers' fault. Are you really going to blame them for not predicting the future well enough? Baby boomers aren't forcing young folks to like living in cities more than suburbs. They're not maliciously causing robots and computers to be more reliable than humans at menial repetitive tasks. They're not forcing young folks to want to spend hundreds of thousands of dollars on mediocre private universities when reasonably priced state universities exist (and a world of knowledge for self-teaching is available through the internet). And even the global warming thing, our current prosperity--and don't kid yourself, America is pretty freaking prosperous--strongly depended on us exploiting cheap and reliable energy for decades. And it's that prosperity which gives us the bandwidth and resources to think "hey, let's do something about this, either find a way to avoid or prepare or cope". Yes, it would have been nice if everyone in the previous generation had a crystal ball and selfless motives. But that is not something we are due as a right, nor is it something anyone should reasonably hold against them. They didn't blow up the world, and made it better in better in a bunch of ways, and maybe a bit worse in some ways. On net, that's still like a B+ or higher in my book.
- peterwwillis 7y ago
  > Are you really going to blame them for not predicting the future well enough? They predicted it just fine. Then they failed to work together to prevent it. > Baby boomers aren't forcing young folks to like living in cities more than suburbs. Young people can only afford overpriced apartments because jobs have steadily migrated to cities, they don't have the credit or capital to afford a house and car in the suburbs, they're overburdened with debt and rising costs of living, not paid accordingly, and well-paying jobs for the lower and middle class are more scarce. Oh, and media conglomerates and advertising have been repeating since before they were born that what they really want is only found in glamorous cities. > They're not forcing young folks to want to spend hundreds of thousands of dollars on mediocre private universities when reasonably priced state universities exist That's all they've ever heard. "You have to go to college. You have to go to the best college. You can go to the best college, you'll just be in debt for 30 years once you do. Don't worry, here's a thing we invented in the 70s called a credit card." > our current prosperity [..] strongly depended on us exploiting cheap and reliable energy for decades We have been the most powerful and wealthy nation since WWII, a generation or two before the boomers. The boomers were even hit by a major oil crisis and recession more than once, and rather than look to alternatives (which Congress literally declared they had to do), they doubled down.
- Miner49er 7y ago
  > They didn't blow up the world Yes they did. Climate change is going to be, and already is, disastrous.
  - SimbaOnSteroids 7y ago
    People are complaining about the Syrian refugees crisis, that's literally the tip of the iceberg.
- toomuchtodo 7y ago
  I would've asked Boomers to not have wasted trillions of dollars on unnecessary military spending (which could've gone to infrastructure, education, and universal healthcare) and countless lives on unnecessary military actions. I would've asked them to not have supported trade pacts that were great for those the jobs went to in developing countries and for domestic consumers of goods where production was off-shored/outsourced, but hollowed out the middle class. I would've asked them to not have allowed private companies to run rampant in healthcare, economically devastating anyone who has chronic health issues or doesn't have a cush employer provided healthcare plan, and then having the audacity of shouting "Socialism!" when healthcare systems working in every other first world country are proposed. I would've asked them to consider the world they were leaving their kids and grandkids, and make efforts to transition off of fossil fuels sooner. I would've asked them to make efforts to support Labor and Unions, not allow them to crumble under the guise of "Right To Work", stagnating wages for forty years and solidifying Capital's stranglehold over the economy, including workplace and employment conditions. I would've asked they not use drug legislation and prisons as weapons against certain classes of people. I would've asked for less greed and more compassion. I would've asked for a bit more (reasonable) sacrifice for future generations. But here we are, so I suppose we'll just clean up the mess the Worst Generation left us all with. It's just a shame they squandered so much for so little; the time for asking anything of them has passed [1]. [1] https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2018/04/03/millennials-approach-baby-boomers-as-largest-generation-in-u-s-electorate/ https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2018/04/03/millennials... (Millennials approach Baby Boomers as America’s largest generation in the electorate [Note: As of 2019, Millenials will have surpassed Boomers as the largest electorate])
rb808 7y ago
Imagine previous generations that were being drafted to the army to go off to WW2, Korea, Vietnam. Ah yes but Millennials have flat wages and expensive college. We've failed them all.
- SimbaOnSteroids 7y ago
  Personally, I'd rather be drafted than have to watch my kids and grand-kids go fight in pointless resource wars that will be the result of decades of unchecked climate change. Frankly, the attitude previous generations have had towards climate science has can best be described as criminally negligent.
- themoonbus 7y ago
  So the bar you're setting is based on the some of the bloodiest conflicts in human history?
skellington 7y ago
Ah we found the true millenial! Boo hoo you guys haven't given us amazing wage growth in an era where we're all competing with cheap overseas labor so we can buy new homes at 25 plus Apple gadgets and endless media. And we had to pay :'( for our fancy degrees with housing included at elite schools in distant states because community college and nearby colleges aren't good enough for us...and you didn't solve all of the problems that didn't exist before your time (like global warming) and I feel sad sometimes too and I'm overwhelmed by social media....wha wha!!!! This is the kind of millenial we hate. The arrogant narcissists who can't understand why every measure of happiness hasn't gone up for them. Well, can you please forgive us? I, and the billions of other people in the past who suffered through wars, famines, plagues, witch hunts, slow progress, feudalism, and every other hardship, are sorry that world perfection didn't converge at the time of your birth and that you might have some hardships and might have to solve some hard problems. Maybe you can achieve perfection for your kids.
- zbentley 7y ago
  Could you put that in terms that are less condescending and ad-hominem? My impression of HN is that it's not the place for that kind of tone.
  - stoppergoo 7y ago
    What if he’s just an aggressive person? He would perceive your comment as a micro aggression
- dang 7y ago
  Please don't post flamewar comments like this. We ban accounts that do. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
mc32 7y ago
A lot of this is by-product of Globalization. Not that it can be contained, but with Globalization, wages seek their level, with Worldwide capital flows housing becomes a hot investment. College is more expensive, but greater numbers of people are going to college than before because it's thought a blue-collar job is insufficient to survive. More people and wealthier people means greater consumption which degrades the enviro. Now, if Boomers are seen as greedy, then wouldn't their successors be greedier if they wanted to out-earn them?
lordlimecat 7y ago
>* College is more expensive (in large part due to Cook's generation cutting subsidies that they got), College is more expensive because the government ensures that 18 year olds have uncapped credit cards for educational expenses and everyone tells them "dont worry about it right now". When you increase demand and defer all cost pressure by years, the cost will always skyrocket. Blaming this on a lack of subsidies is actually backwards; providing guaranteed funding for education would further boost costs. As long as schools are setting the price, demand is high, and the money is flowing like water, that cost is going to continue to increase. > * Environment is shot- that whole global warming thing isn't going away anytime soon. But renewables use is also way up. This is the parent's point: these claims utterly ignore the historical reality. We're greener than ever, we've stopped using CFCs and arsenic preservatives and lead paints and high particulate energy generation. We have more access to education than ever. And in the west, our wages are on average 5x that of the rest of the world. So many of these complaints look ignorant and petty when you zoom out a tiny bit from one's personal circumstances. You have college debt? Cry more, you have access to more opportunity than the preceeding 99% of your ancestors and than 95% of your current peers.

by tedivm 7y ago

tux1968 7y ago

It may be that a lot of the issues do not represent any especially egregious failing of any generation, but rather structural changes. The post-war exponential growth that fed unprecedented wealth generation simply could not continue, it has run its course. So while it is tempting to look back a generation or two and see how they had it much easier in a lot of ways, if you look back just a little bit further, it's easy to feel pretty damn lucky to be living today.

NE2z2T9qi 7y ago

What are you asking for? The world has changed drastically, culture and preferences have changed drastically, and new technological tools make the job and economic landscape entirely different than earlier. That's not Baby Boomers' fault. Are you really going to blame them for not predicting the future well enough? Baby boomers aren't forcing young folks to like living in cities more than suburbs. They're not maliciously causing robots and computers to be more reliable than humans at menial repetitive tasks. They're not forcing young folks to want to spend hundreds of thousands of dollars on mediocre private universities when reasonably priced state universities exist (and a world of knowledge for self-teaching is available through the internet). And even the global warming thing, our current prosperity--and don't kid yourself, America is pretty freaking prosperous--strongly depended on us exploiting cheap and reliable energy for decades. And it's that prosperity which gives us the bandwidth and resources to think "hey, let's do something about this, either find a way to avoid or prepare or cope". Yes, it would have been nice if everyone in the previous generation had a crystal ball and selfless motives. But that is not something we are due as a right, nor is it something anyone should reasonably hold against them. They didn't blow up the world, and made it better in better in a bunch of ways, and maybe a bit worse in some ways. On net, that's still like a B+ or higher in my book.

peterwwillis 7y ago
> Are you really going to blame them for not predicting the future well enough? They predicted it just fine. Then they failed to work together to prevent it. > Baby boomers aren't forcing young folks to like living in cities more than suburbs. Young people can only afford overpriced apartments because jobs have steadily migrated to cities, they don't have the credit or capital to afford a house and car in the suburbs, they're overburdened with debt and rising costs of living, not paid accordingly, and well-paying jobs for the lower and middle class are more scarce. Oh, and media conglomerates and advertising have been repeating since before they were born that what they really want is only found in glamorous cities. > They're not forcing young folks to want to spend hundreds of thousands of dollars on mediocre private universities when reasonably priced state universities exist That's all they've ever heard. "You have to go to college. You have to go to the best college. You can go to the best college, you'll just be in debt for 30 years once you do. Don't worry, here's a thing we invented in the 70s called a credit card." > our current prosperity [..] strongly depended on us exploiting cheap and reliable energy for decades We have been the most powerful and wealthy nation since WWII, a generation or two before the boomers. The boomers were even hit by a major oil crisis and recession more than once, and rather than look to alternatives (which Congress literally declared they had to do), they doubled down.
Miner49er 7y ago
> They didn't blow up the world Yes they did. Climate change is going to be, and already is, disastrous.
- SimbaOnSteroids 7y ago
  People are complaining about the Syrian refugees crisis, that's literally the tip of the iceberg.
toomuchtodo 7y ago
I would've asked Boomers to not have wasted trillions of dollars on unnecessary military spending (which could've gone to infrastructure, education, and universal healthcare) and countless lives on unnecessary military actions. I would've asked them to not have supported trade pacts that were great for those the jobs went to in developing countries and for domestic consumers of goods where production was off-shored/outsourced, but hollowed out the middle class. I would've asked them to not have allowed private companies to run rampant in healthcare, economically devastating anyone who has chronic health issues or doesn't have a cush employer provided healthcare plan, and then having the audacity of shouting "Socialism!" when healthcare systems working in every other first world country are proposed. I would've asked them to consider the world they were leaving their kids and grandkids, and make efforts to transition off of fossil fuels sooner. I would've asked them to make efforts to support Labor and Unions, not allow them to crumble under the guise of "Right To Work", stagnating wages for forty years and solidifying Capital's stranglehold over the economy, including workplace and employment conditions. I would've asked they not use drug legislation and prisons as weapons against certain classes of people. I would've asked for less greed and more compassion. I would've asked for a bit more (reasonable) sacrifice for future generations. But here we are, so I suppose we'll just clean up the mess the Worst Generation left us all with. It's just a shame they squandered so much for so little; the time for asking anything of them has passed [1]. [1] https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2018/04/03/millennials-approach-baby-boomers-as-largest-generation-in-u-s-electorate/ https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2018/04/03/millennials... (Millennials approach Baby Boomers as America’s largest generation in the electorate [Note: As of 2019, Millenials will have surpassed Boomers as the largest electorate])

rb808 7y ago

Imagine previous generations that were being drafted to the army to go off to WW2, Korea, Vietnam. Ah yes but Millennials have flat wages and expensive college. We've failed them all.

SimbaOnSteroids 7y ago
Personally, I'd rather be drafted than have to watch my kids and grand-kids go fight in pointless resource wars that will be the result of decades of unchecked climate change. Frankly, the attitude previous generations have had towards climate science has can best be described as criminally negligent.
themoonbus 7y ago
So the bar you're setting is based on the some of the bloodiest conflicts in human history?

skellington 7y ago

Ah we found the true millenial! Boo hoo you guys haven't given us amazing wage growth in an era where we're all competing with cheap overseas labor so we can buy new homes at 25 plus Apple gadgets and endless media. And we had to pay :'( for our fancy degrees with housing included at elite schools in distant states because community college and nearby colleges aren't good enough for us...and you didn't solve all of the problems that didn't exist before your time (like global warming) and I feel sad sometimes too and I'm overwhelmed by social media....wha wha!!!! This is the kind of millenial we hate. The arrogant narcissists who can't understand why every measure of happiness hasn't gone up for them. Well, can you please forgive us? I, and the billions of other people in the past who suffered through wars, famines, plagues, witch hunts, slow progress, feudalism, and every other hardship, are sorry that world perfection didn't converge at the time of your birth and that you might have some hardships and might have to solve some hard problems. Maybe you can achieve perfection for your kids.

zbentley 7y ago
Could you put that in terms that are less condescending and ad-hominem? My impression of HN is that it's not the place for that kind of tone.
- stoppergoo 7y ago
  What if he’s just an aggressive person? He would perceive your comment as a micro aggression
dang 7y ago
Please don't post flamewar comments like this. We ban accounts that do. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

mc32 7y ago

A lot of this is by-product of Globalization. Not that it can be contained, but with Globalization, wages seek their level, with Worldwide capital flows housing becomes a hot investment. College is more expensive, but greater numbers of people are going to college than before because it's thought a blue-collar job is insufficient to survive. More people and wealthier people means greater consumption which degrades the enviro. Now, if Boomers are seen as greedy, then wouldn't their successors be greedier if they wanted to out-earn them?

lordlimecat 7y ago

>* College is more expensive (in large part due to Cook's generation cutting subsidies that they got), College is more expensive because the government ensures that 18 year olds have uncapped credit cards for educational expenses and everyone tells them "dont worry about it right now". When you increase demand and defer all cost pressure by years, the cost will always skyrocket. Blaming this on a lack of subsidies is actually backwards; providing guaranteed funding for education would further boost costs. As long as schools are setting the price, demand is high, and the money is flowing like water, that cost is going to continue to increase. > * Environment is shot- that whole global warming thing isn't going away anytime soon. But renewables use is also way up. This is the parent's point: these claims utterly ignore the historical reality. We're greener than ever, we've stopped using CFCs and arsenic preservatives and lead paints and high particulate energy generation. We have more access to education than ever. And in the west, our wages are on average 5x that of the rest of the world. So many of these complaints look ignorant and petty when you zoom out a tiny bit from one's personal circumstances. You have college debt? Cry more, you have access to more opportunity than the preceeding 99% of your ancestors and than 95% of your current peers.