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My wife and I are not having kids. If you could sum it up into one short explanation as to why: My wife and I don't believe that the future is going to be a b

My wife and I are not having kids. If you could sum it up into one short explanation as to why: My wife and I don't believe that the future is going to be a better place. Chief among the reasons are wealth inequality and buying power. If I can barely afford to buy a house now with a great job, I shudder to think what my kids would be faced with.

dmschulman 7y ago
Is it that you can't afford to buy a house or that you can't afford to buy a house in the Bay Area?
- refurb 7y ago
  That's a silly question. Why would you want to buy a house outside the Bay area? /s
  - imtringued 7y ago
    Well it is true. Thanks to the internet a company can be located anywhere on the planet. But this also means that companies can simply relocate to investors and locations with a high density of tech workers. Since those decision makers have more influence than the workers this leads to centralization of jobs in a handful of cities.
- save_ferris 7y ago
  Real estate prices are getting out of control in many of the US cities with healthy job markets, it's not just the Bay Area. Home prices in my old neighborhood in Louisville, KY have skyrocketed in the last several years as "shotgun" style homes have become trendy in the area. Last time I visited, I saw a one such home on the market for about $350K, which would've gone for roughly a 3rd of that about 15 years ago. The housing affordability is being felt in a lot of places, not just the west coast.
  - pimmen 7y ago
    It's skyrocketing across the world. Sweden for example has seen levels of growth in real estate prices that rivals Hong Kong, the Bay Area or London. There are many, many, many reasons why but I wouldn't expect the prices of homes across the world to drop when basically all interest rates have been at rock bottom for a decade. People with capital to leverage really have it made.
    - deleted 7y ago
      [deleted]
internet_user 7y ago
you decided not to have kids simply because you thought they would not be able to afford to buy a house on their own? Was that really the major reason?
765hgf 7y ago
China is the future. Your kids would have no chance. It's the correct choice to forfeit now.
ddebernardy 7y ago
I don't think the future is going to be a better place either, but I don't buy for an instant that it's a good reason for you to not have kids, or the actual reason you don't have any. Firstly, life is pointless and meaningless without children, or as a fallback without taking care of others. And secondly, why should you, who are aware of this, be the ones ending up not reproducing, essentially mimicking the storyline behind Idiocracy on steroids? IMHO you've other reasons to work out, and the reasons you put forward are only an excuse.
- bfrydl 7y ago
  > Firstly, life is pointless and meaningless without children That seems like a very personal opinion you should be stating with much less certainty about other people's lives.
  - algaeontoast 7y ago
    Yeah, I get enough of this as is - outside of HN. It still blows me away how having a kid is used both as a "meaning of life" play and a "look at how much money I have" play (akin to humble bragging about a $70k BMW in the driveway). During my time living in Los Altos with three other Google engineers (in the same house) this was common place in our neighborhood.
    - benatkin 7y ago
      Homer Simpson has the best reason to enjoy having kids: "Kids are the best; you can teach them to hate the things you hate."
      - algaeontoast 7y ago
        After multiple friends of mine had kids, they all seem to agree that kids can also teach you to hate everything you once enjoyed.
    - Domenic_S 7y ago
      I mean, you're humblebragging about different things (Los Altos, Google), not sure the subject really matters
refurb 7y ago
There is an XKCD for that: https://xkcd.com/605/ https://xkcd.com/605/ The answer is that just because something is happening, doesn't mean it's going to keep happening forever.
justaguyhere 7y ago
I feel environmental issues are bigger problem than wealth inequality at this point, though both are important and going to have disastrous consequences. I too am not for having kids, we aren't alone in thinking this way. Birth rates are falling in developed nations. It is hard not to feel angry/pessimistic etc at the state of affairs. In a way, a lot of things have improved - crime rates are down compared to 50 years ago, medicine has made amazing strides, we can travel cheaply across the world, the internet has opened up a ton of opportunities etc. Still, more people are depressed/lonely, salaries are stagnating, there aren't many decent leaders (around the world) that we can look up to... If there is one thing that is guaranteed, it is that humans will mess up any good thing sooner or later :(
ddgflorida 7y ago
Have some context - you are better off living in this time/place than any other time and your future children would probably be too.
- rhcom2 7y ago
  Surely people were saying that during the Pax Romana too and it was true... until it wasn't.
- Creationer 7y ago
  Not having children - and not curating a presumably well-mannered and intelligent next-generation - leaves our civilization worse off and large problems that much harder to solve. Human intellect is rare, and partly hereditary. Please pass your genes along - at least offer a sperm or egg donation.
  - internet_user 7y ago
    why is this downvoted?
    - Creationer 7y ago
      Some people take solace in the idea of childlessness. I think that raising as many happy, healthy, intelligent and productive children as possible, with a suitable partner, is our very raison d'etre. Specifically for the high-IQ HN audience. Life and society becomes much simpler and more rewarding when you view things from this perspective.
- rubicon33 7y ago
  Just because now is better than in the past, doesn't mean now is worth bringing someone into the world. That's just a logical argument, not whether or not you actually believe now is or isn't worth it. That's entirely subjective and not really worth arguing about IMO.
aeternus 7y ago
Do you feel your buying power is less than that of your parents? Other than real-estate in a popular city, has your buying power really gone down? Also would you rather live in a society where: A) GDP (or general productivity and availability of goods) increases by 3%. However this society has wealth inequality B) GDP stays approximately flat or increases by only 0.1% / year but the society has perfect wealth equality.
- flukus 7y ago
  > Do you feel your buying power is less than that of your parents? Other than real-estate in a popular city, has your buying power really gone down? What we're discovering is that this buying power isn't so important, affordable real-estate gives you stability and permanence that a 65" LCD TV and this years iPhone model just can't make up for. To answer you're question, I'd say B whole be better in future, we're hitting limits on our ability to consume.
natalyarostova 7y ago
What regions/times do you wager would have been better than today?
flipcoder 7y ago
I think a lot of this has to do with a shift of our worldviews from previous generations. People are growing more fearful, and have less trust in long term commitments like marriage working out and they view life decisions as more risky and not worth the effort versus the payoff. I don't share this view though.

dmschulman 7y ago

Is it that you can't afford to buy a house or that you can't afford to buy a house in the Bay Area?

refurb 7y ago
That's a silly question. Why would you want to buy a house outside the Bay area? /s
- imtringued 7y ago
  Well it is true. Thanks to the internet a company can be located anywhere on the planet. But this also means that companies can simply relocate to investors and locations with a high density of tech workers. Since those decision makers have more influence than the workers this leads to centralization of jobs in a handful of cities.
save_ferris 7y ago
Real estate prices are getting out of control in many of the US cities with healthy job markets, it's not just the Bay Area. Home prices in my old neighborhood in Louisville, KY have skyrocketed in the last several years as "shotgun" style homes have become trendy in the area. Last time I visited, I saw a one such home on the market for about $350K, which would've gone for roughly a 3rd of that about 15 years ago. The housing affordability is being felt in a lot of places, not just the west coast.
- pimmen 7y ago
  It's skyrocketing across the world. Sweden for example has seen levels of growth in real estate prices that rivals Hong Kong, the Bay Area or London. There are many, many, many reasons why but I wouldn't expect the prices of homes across the world to drop when basically all interest rates have been at rock bottom for a decade. People with capital to leverage really have it made.
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]

internet_user 7y ago

you decided not to have kids simply because you thought they would not be able to afford to buy a house on their own? Was that really the major reason?

765hgf 7y ago

China is the future. Your kids would have no chance. It's the correct choice to forfeit now.

ddebernardy 7y ago

I don't think the future is going to be a better place either, but I don't buy for an instant that it's a good reason for you to not have kids, or the actual reason you don't have any. Firstly, life is pointless and meaningless without children, or as a fallback without taking care of others. And secondly, why should you, who are aware of this, be the ones ending up not reproducing, essentially mimicking the storyline behind Idiocracy on steroids? IMHO you've other reasons to work out, and the reasons you put forward are only an excuse.

bfrydl 7y ago
> Firstly, life is pointless and meaningless without children That seems like a very personal opinion you should be stating with much less certainty about other people's lives.
- algaeontoast 7y ago
  Yeah, I get enough of this as is - outside of HN. It still blows me away how having a kid is used both as a "meaning of life" play and a "look at how much money I have" play (akin to humble bragging about a $70k BMW in the driveway). During my time living in Los Altos with three other Google engineers (in the same house) this was common place in our neighborhood.
  - benatkin 7y ago
    Homer Simpson has the best reason to enjoy having kids: "Kids are the best; you can teach them to hate the things you hate."
    - algaeontoast 7y ago
      After multiple friends of mine had kids, they all seem to agree that kids can also teach you to hate everything you once enjoyed.
  - Domenic_S 7y ago
    I mean, you're humblebragging about different things (Los Altos, Google), not sure the subject really matters

refurb 7y ago

There is an XKCD for that: https://xkcd.com/605/ https://xkcd.com/605/ The answer is that just because something is happening, doesn't mean it's going to keep happening forever.

justaguyhere 7y ago

I feel environmental issues are bigger problem than wealth inequality at this point, though both are important and going to have disastrous consequences. I too am not for having kids, we aren't alone in thinking this way. Birth rates are falling in developed nations. It is hard not to feel angry/pessimistic etc at the state of affairs. In a way, a lot of things have improved - crime rates are down compared to 50 years ago, medicine has made amazing strides, we can travel cheaply across the world, the internet has opened up a ton of opportunities etc. Still, more people are depressed/lonely, salaries are stagnating, there aren't many decent leaders (around the world) that we can look up to... If there is one thing that is guaranteed, it is that humans will mess up any good thing sooner or later :(

ddgflorida 7y ago

Have some context - you are better off living in this time/place than any other time and your future children would probably be too.

rhcom2 7y ago
Surely people were saying that during the Pax Romana too and it was true... until it wasn't.
Creationer 7y ago
Not having children - and not curating a presumably well-mannered and intelligent next-generation - leaves our civilization worse off and large problems that much harder to solve. Human intellect is rare, and partly hereditary. Please pass your genes along - at least offer a sperm or egg donation.
- internet_user 7y ago
  why is this downvoted?
  - Creationer 7y ago
    Some people take solace in the idea of childlessness. I think that raising as many happy, healthy, intelligent and productive children as possible, with a suitable partner, is our very raison d'etre. Specifically for the high-IQ HN audience. Life and society becomes much simpler and more rewarding when you view things from this perspective.
rubicon33 7y ago
Just because now is better than in the past, doesn't mean now is worth bringing someone into the world. That's just a logical argument, not whether or not you actually believe now is or isn't worth it. That's entirely subjective and not really worth arguing about IMO.

aeternus 7y ago

Do you feel your buying power is less than that of your parents? Other than real-estate in a popular city, has your buying power really gone down? Also would you rather live in a society where: A) GDP (or general productivity and availability of goods) increases by 3%. However this society has wealth inequality B) GDP stays approximately flat or increases by only 0.1% / year but the society has perfect wealth equality.

flukus 7y ago
> Do you feel your buying power is less than that of your parents? Other than real-estate in a popular city, has your buying power really gone down? What we're discovering is that this buying power isn't so important, affordable real-estate gives you stability and permanence that a 65" LCD TV and this years iPhone model just can't make up for. To answer you're question, I'd say B whole be better in future, we're hitting limits on our ability to consume.

natalyarostova 7y ago

What regions/times do you wager would have been better than today?

flipcoder 7y ago

I think a lot of this has to do with a shift of our worldviews from previous generations. People are growing more fearful, and have less trust in long term commitments like marriage working out and they view life decisions as more risky and not worth the effort versus the payoff. I don't share this view though.