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Imo the real point of it was for EU politicians to get re-elected on the basis of them taking a “tough stance” against the US tech giants and “caring about user

Imo the real point of it was for EU politicians to get re-elected on the basis of them taking a “tough stance” against the US tech giants and “caring about user privacy”.

simion314 7y ago
Why is for some of the US citizens medical data sacred but any other kind of data is free for stealing and selling (I mean stealing because you are most of the time not aware what data is collected and to whom is sold). Most of this data can include medical stuff like what medical products you buy, what medical queries you search etc.
- filoleg 7y ago
  I agree with you. My comment was less about the intent of GDPR, which I consider noble, and more about limp-wristed enforcing and real-life effects of GDPR in its current form.
  - simion314 7y ago
    It could take a while for large effects but there are effects for me already, I stopped visiting this websites when I see the dark patterns, I don't even waste time bypassing the wall. I am curious if someone can argue for the point that only the medical data from you doctor should be protected and the rest can be sold behind your back.
    - kasey_junk 7y ago
      I don't believe this argument but I'll make it. The very concept that this is 'your' data is in error. It is demographic data collected by third parties 'about' you. You've entered into consensual relationships to provide all of this data with those third parties, for the express purpose of using it for advertising. There is no expectation that it then would not be used for that purpose, quite the opposite thats why it is collected. Conversely, your relationship with the data your doctor collects has had a long expectation of privacy. Reinforcing that expectation with explicit laws doesn't change the basic relationship.
      - simion314 7y ago
        >You've entered into consensual relationships to provide all of this data with those third parties Before GDPR all of this was not so clear for many people, my parents do not know that they are giving up their data, that it is sold on a market, that a profile of them is created somewhere and each click will put some new tags on that profile.
        filoleg 7y ago
        > [users] do not know that they are giving up their data, that it is sold on a market I agree that this is a big one, and I believe that businesses indeed should explicitly and plainly let users know what kind of data is stored and how it is used. However, isn't one of the main issues with GDPR the fact that it doesn't give users an option to enter in this kind of relationship with a company, even if both parties are aware and consenting? I am not a legal expert, but I thought(according to my understanding of GDPR) that businesses are not allowed to store personal data about users, period, unless the data is needed to provide the service. I have no idea if "we need this data, so we can use it for ads to earn the revenue needed to finance our service" qualifies as "needed to provide the service", but I always thought it didn't. I will be happy if someone could clarify this point and, potentially, prove me wrong.
        kasey_junk 7y ago
        This is not true. Consent is a basis for storing data.
    - Mirioron 7y ago
      It's not that only medical data from your doctor should be protected, but there clearly should be different tiers of data. I don't really care if people know I visit HN, but I do care if people know the exact contents of my passport or my exact medical history. There's a lot of data we generate that is private and can be used to suss things out about us, but we don't consider it critical like we do some other data.
      - simion314 7y ago
        I agree that data can be in different levels. The first thing I think should happen is informing the people, say if you send me an PM about a medical issue you have you should be informed that your message will be analyzed and a hidden profile of you will be updated and then sold. At least if you want to trade your data you should be able to read a clear contract on what you trade and what you get in return.
luckylion 7y ago
Regulatory capture. It's easy for FB, Google & Co to pay lawyers to find the loopholes, figure out the right angles and buy off the Irish (or Luxembourgian, another notorious offender to punch holes in EU laws for big corporations) government for tax deals & privacy exemptions. It's much harder for smaller competitors, so GDPR is an effective gate keeping device. It's the same with taxes. If you're a small company, you're paying the official rate. If you're Google, you'll have a Double Irish with a Dutch Sandwich, who cares if you need to pay €10m to set it up and get the okay from revenue services (there's a fun report on how the uppermost German tax officials "freelance" for the large tax consultancies on the side and make a lot of money to write "articles") - you'll save billions.

Imo the real point of it was for EU politicians to get re-elected on the basis of them taking a “tough stance” against the US tech giants and “caring about user privacy”.

simion314 7y ago

Why is for some of the US citizens medical data sacred but any other kind of data is free for stealing and selling (I mean stealing because you are most of the time not aware what data is collected and to whom is sold). Most of this data can include medical stuff like what medical products you buy, what medical queries you search etc.

filoleg 7y ago
I agree with you. My comment was less about the intent of GDPR, which I consider noble, and more about limp-wristed enforcing and real-life effects of GDPR in its current form.
- simion314 7y ago
  It could take a while for large effects but there are effects for me already, I stopped visiting this websites when I see the dark patterns, I don't even waste time bypassing the wall. I am curious if someone can argue for the point that only the medical data from you doctor should be protected and the rest can be sold behind your back.
  - kasey_junk 7y ago
    I don't believe this argument but I'll make it. The very concept that this is 'your' data is in error. It is demographic data collected by third parties 'about' you. You've entered into consensual relationships to provide all of this data with those third parties, for the express purpose of using it for advertising. There is no expectation that it then would not be used for that purpose, quite the opposite thats why it is collected. Conversely, your relationship with the data your doctor collects has had a long expectation of privacy. Reinforcing that expectation with explicit laws doesn't change the basic relationship.
    - simion314 7y ago
      >You've entered into consensual relationships to provide all of this data with those third parties Before GDPR all of this was not so clear for many people, my parents do not know that they are giving up their data, that it is sold on a market, that a profile of them is created somewhere and each click will put some new tags on that profile.
      - filoleg 7y ago
        > [users] do not know that they are giving up their data, that it is sold on a market I agree that this is a big one, and I believe that businesses indeed should explicitly and plainly let users know what kind of data is stored and how it is used. However, isn't one of the main issues with GDPR the fact that it doesn't give users an option to enter in this kind of relationship with a company, even if both parties are aware and consenting? I am not a legal expert, but I thought(according to my understanding of GDPR) that businesses are not allowed to store personal data about users, period, unless the data is needed to provide the service. I have no idea if "we need this data, so we can use it for ads to earn the revenue needed to finance our service" qualifies as "needed to provide the service", but I always thought it didn't. I will be happy if someone could clarify this point and, potentially, prove me wrong.
        kasey_junk 7y ago
        This is not true. Consent is a basis for storing data.
  - Mirioron 7y ago
    It's not that only medical data from your doctor should be protected, but there clearly should be different tiers of data. I don't really care if people know I visit HN, but I do care if people know the exact contents of my passport or my exact medical history. There's a lot of data we generate that is private and can be used to suss things out about us, but we don't consider it critical like we do some other data.
    - simion314 7y ago
      I agree that data can be in different levels. The first thing I think should happen is informing the people, say if you send me an PM about a medical issue you have you should be informed that your message will be analyzed and a hidden profile of you will be updated and then sold. At least if you want to trade your data you should be able to read a clear contract on what you trade and what you get in return.

luckylion 7y ago

Regulatory capture. It's easy for FB, Google & Co to pay lawyers to find the loopholes, figure out the right angles and buy off the Irish (or Luxembourgian, another notorious offender to punch holes in EU laws for big corporations) government for tax deals & privacy exemptions. It's much harder for smaller competitors, so GDPR is an effective gate keeping device. It's the same with taxes. If you're a small company, you're paying the official rate. If you're Google, you'll have a Double Irish with a Dutch Sandwich, who cares if you need to pay €10m to set it up and get the okay from revenue services (there's a fun report on how the uppermost German tax officials "freelance" for the large tax consultancies on the side and make a lot of money to write "articles") - you'll save billions.